Split post re: UK going downhill

[Urchin]

also i was not necessarily talking about people on here i was talking more in general. and as for tarring with the same brush well thats exactly what some people have been doing about immigrants.

It was me who said tarring with the same brush and I was talking about peoples views of immigrants when I said it, I wasn't disagreeing with you:

I feel sorry for genuine asylum cases as they all do seem to get tarred with the same brush.

edit, I just re-read it and lou said it aswell...but of you read her posts she's been standing up for muslims this whole thread and she probably thought you were saying she was racist if you didn't read her previous posts.

 

[Hypnorm]

At the risk of being narrow minded etc, I wouldn't go to a dentist who had bad teeth, wouldn't take fitness advice off a fat person, and we ALL had plenty to say about Clare Vertity who has no kids.

Not sure the relevance to a religious headscarf but just thought I'd say.

*duck*

i agree with that actually
i wouldnt go to a dentist with bad teeth... especially if you're paying!!
and emma, you wouldn't take fitness advice off me???

Personally i haven't got that close enough to my dentist to see if he has bad teeth!
Just cos a person has bad teeth doent mean they are going to be a crap dentist, some times it is due to a previous illness when young that affects the teeth.
I had whooping cough around the age of 5 and the medication i had affected my 2nd teeth so they are slightly discoloured - so if i was a dentist would you label me as a bad dentist?

Just shows how narrow minded people are.

Urchin - i agree with what you said, its ILLEGAL immigrants that are giving the others bad names. There are lots out there who work from the day they get here and don't claim anything off the country.
Of which i have no problem.

 

[Urchin]

I apologize if i offended anyone i in no way meant to tarr everyone with the same brush if you notice i said some people not everyone and i didn't call anyone racist as i dont think any of the comments were racist.

I think it was the way you suggested renaming the thread "the immigrant and muslim bashing thread", as if everyone posting in the thread was racist.

 

[Sammystar]

I'm also an immigrant here in Switzerland, I have permission from the Swiss authorities to live here, I contribute to the system, and as of recently, I am able to vote.

I don't think anybody has a problem with genuine asylum seekers, and immigrants who can pay their way.

I do feel there is a problem with the sheer volume of immigrants who have been allowed (by this and previous governments) to enter the UK in a seemingly uncontrolled fashion for many years. This, coupled with the lack of border controls and hence the amount of illegal immigrants, has put a huge strain on the countrys infrastructure, the NHS, transport, and yes, even housing. Britain is simply overpopulated....fact, and this is what has lead to many of the problems we are seeing today (including problems with the indigenous population such as rise in crime, decline in standards etc) it can all be put back to the breakdown of traditions.

As for the whole cultural thing, well that's a tough one. Last year France caused uproar by banning the display of ANY religious symobls within the school system. That means no headscarves, no crucifixes, nothing. I'm not saying I totally agree with such a ridgid stance, but I can certainly empathise with what they are trying to achieve. If you want to live there, and recieve an education there, accept abide by their rules. It's simple. I do it here in Switzerland and I would never dream of trying to change Swiss rules and regulations, customs, beliefs and culture. I embrace it, as do 99.9% of immigrants anywhere, I'm sure.

 

[emma28]

At the risk of being narrow minded etc, I wouldn't go to a dentist who had bad teeth, wouldn't take fitness advice off a fat person, and we ALL had plenty to say about Clare Vertity who has no kids.

Not sure the relevance to a religious headscarf but just thought I'd say.

*duck*

i agree with that actually
i wouldnt go to a dentist with bad teeth... especially if you're paying!!
and emma, you wouldn't take fitness advice off me???

Personally i haven't got that close enough to my dentist to see if he has bad teeth!
Just cos a person has bad teeth doent mean they are going to be a crap dentist, some times it is due to a previous illness when young that affects the teeth.
I had whooping cough around the age of 5 and the medication i had affected my 2nd teeth so they are slightly discoloured - so if i was a dentist would you label me as a bad dentist?

Just shows how narrow minded people are.

Urchin - i agree with what you said, its ILLEGAL immigrants that are giving the others bad names. There are lots out there who work from the day they get here and don't claim anything off the country.
Of which i have no problem.

I object to be called narrow minded. No one can judge anyone else from one statement, without them selves becoming what they are critisizing. Surely?

I am quick to judge, I agree its not a fantastic trait to have but who amongst us is perfect??

At the risk of turning a perfectly good debate into something which is silly,
a qualified dentist would know how to sort his teeth and would realise that it was damaging his business otherwise. And I kinda ment massive rotten snaggle tooth, not just mild discolouration. Sorry for not making that clear.

 

[_Rosie_]

urchin sorry were you talking to me when you said about reading lou's posts?? coz i read everything including my own and i didnt mean anyone was racist at all.

i do apologize though i re-read my post over again and again to see what offended people and i did go a bit OTT but arnt we all guilty of that when were passionate about things?

i do agree lots of comments were about illegal immigrants but lots were also about immigrants in general and those are that upset me.

but as i said before i didnt mean that anyone was racist at all im not too great at gettin my point across when im upset.

 

[annem]

Urchin and Sammystar are right thats its the illegal ones i have a problem with. I'm up for a multi-cultural society.

Nothing personal its just we have no idea how many are here, have no record of them so they can do as they please. Also as we have no idea how many are here of course the nhs, education etc is going to be under funded and stretched.

Its the government s fault. In todays news is an article about how 'Thousands of illegal immigrants were mistakenly cleared to work as security staff'

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/itn/20071112/t ... 618_2.html

Its this kind od mistake that annoys me!

 

[uncle_bens]

if you dont wanna look then dont look lol

 

[Urchin]

urchin sorry were you talking to me when you said about reading lou's posts?? coz i read everything including my own and i didnt mean anyone was racist at all.

i do apologize though i re-read my post over again and again to see what offended people and i did go a bit OTT but arnt we all guilty of that when were passionate about things?

i do agree lots of comments were about illegal immigrants but lots were also about immigrants in general and those are that upset me.

but as i said before i didnt mean that anyone was racist at all im not too great at gettin my point across when im upset.

no worries at all
I'm not even sure that how lou read it but I was just kind of explaining how she may have taken it, like I said I think it may have been when you suggested renaming the thread...but I'm not sure, don't worry about it

I think its great we can have a debate like this and people feel passionately about it.

 

[_Rosie_]

ok yeah i see that now didn't mean that at all i simply meant that it was meant to be a post about the uk goin down hill and kinda ended up on one subject. but thanks for explaining that to me i havn't slept all night so am not the sharpest tool in the box today lol

 

[Krystal]

And when I say some cultures who actually believe in their religion I am refering to the countless "christians" who get their kids christened then never go to church after. Hypocrites in my eyes.

Lou

no where does it say I have to go to church evey sunday at 11 on the dot in order to lead my life as a christian? unless you can quote me a passage from the bible perhaps? and I'm sure it's not just 'christians' that get their children blessed then don't follow up with visits to a place of worship? just cos i don't go every sunday doesn't mean i can't lead my life as a christian. I agree with most of your points on here definately but that is biggest load of rubbish i've heard

anyways.. regarding the article, I do think the salon in some way needs to be aware that it isn't acceptable to discriminate like this, totally wrong, that girl should be allowed to wear a headscarf no questions asked, but do i think she should be allowed to sue for 'hurt' feelings and loss of earnings, nooo i don't, if i'm not sick of living in a claim society that is getting more and more like america with all these no win no fee adverts it really does my head in. It's becoming more about the money and less about the principle

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

I dont think we should turn this into a religious debate as there are so many varying beliefs here, no-one should have to explain their beliefs to anyone else......and I'd only get myself into trouble

As for the hairdressing/headscarf thing - well what a load of old tripe. I am an ex-hairdresser and I never heard of anything so mad as someone being unable to do the job if their hair is covered. Have you SEEN some of the hairstyles hairdressers have? Thats enough to put me off them cutting my hair

I personally dont believe that anyone has the right to question anothers beliefs. If that lady wishes to wear her headscarf because it means something religious to her, then who has the right to tell her she cant? Who has the right to say she cant cut hair just because others cant see her hairstyle? Any customers who refuses to let someone cut their hair just because they cant see the hairdressers hair are not the kind of person who i would have wanted as a customer anyway.

 

[Squiglet]

I think people miss the point completely about the whole immigrant issue..
The British Government (current one) has eroded a lot of basic values like marriage, and working... but making it much easier and cheaper to live off benefits than to go out, get a job and make a life for yourself.

For one I speak from experience. I was living in London. There was no way I could afford to buy a house in London or pay ordinary rent, so was in council accommodation (which is lousy btw)... I had a good education, and could easily get a job.. I even got offered one in London, on 18.000 quid a year... but considering the childcare costs would amount to 200quid a week, and because the tax credits meant my wage bracket was outside the maximum childcare allowance I could get, left me with less than 100quid a week to live on... which was less than the amount of money I would have got if I just sat on my backside and sponged off the government. So what was the point of going to work?

Most people I have met on here have the same attitude I have, where they don't want to live off the government, they want to stand on their own two feet and that is the right attitude to have, but the Government aren't helping... its easier to be a single mum, on benefits living in council accommodation, than to go out get a job, get your own place and be self sufficient... it's no ones fault but the government if you ask me.

It's easy to blame immigrants, but it's not as simple as that. I remember several white British girls I knew at the time, said they only got pregnant so that they could have someone to love and get their own place... That's not a reason to have a baby, but that's the way it works.

Most people I know are immigrants or migrant works, me and my husband for example are not native but come and work here. We don't have a choice because the government doesn't help in anyway. But because we are married, are working, have a mortgage and have children... we get enormous tax rebates which can amount to thousands of pounds.

I am not saying its better here... for one the attitude towards muslims here is appalling... especially after the Madrid bombings (again tarring people with the same brush) but also this part of Spain has a long history between Moors and Christians that's bred into them... It's quite deluded once you actually start looking into how much better this country was under muslim control..

I am an ardent believer that your religious choice should not affect who you are or what job you get... that girl shouldn't have been discriminated against for her religion... She is entitled to believe what she believes... but I think the basis for her case is pointless (ie. emotional hurt and loss of earnings)... the owner should be brought up on charges of racism.. but to pay any fees into the court system not to this girl so as to help with other cases.. Sometimes, we have to accept people don't believe what we believe in and cannot change that no matter how much it upsets us.

 

[Krystal]

I am an ardent believer that your religious choice should not affect who you are or what job you get... that girl shouldn't have been discriminated against for her religion... She is entitled to believe what she believes... but I think the basis for her case is pointless (ie. emotional hurt and loss of earnings)... the owner should be brought up on charges of racism.. but to pay any fees into the court system not to this girl so as to help with other cases.. Sometimes, we have to accept people don't believe what we believe in and cannot change that no matter how much it upsets us.

thats what i meant, you just managed to make it sound a million times better

 

[laetitia85]

well Id b annoyed but thats just me,

hairdressers = hair = customers seein the talent on the hairdressers head

what a waste of tax payers money

She said: "I decided to sue this hairdresser because she upset me the most''

wtf??????

so if one of the stylists got alopecia or cancer and their hair fell out they should get the sack?

OMG just seen this thread. wtf.
Good point there.
i also know a hairdresser who is bold by choice and she's an excellent hairdresser!

 

[mummykay]

sorry for any offence but hey, freedom of speech

everyone has their opinion and i enjoy seein other ppls thoughts even if they arent the same as mine so whats with all the 'thats wrong u shouldnt think that' to me?

whatever im over this now, next debate pls

 

[Melly+2]

Pandas

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

 

[Squiglet]

pssf... hate pandas... they shouldn't be allowed to wear such heavy eye make up or people won't give them a job as a bamboo pruner... Sorry... I just couldn't help myself..

 

[Melly+2]

squiglt behave your sekf lady

 

[Jen & Her Men]

I'm a muslim, and i wear a headscarf, AND I do hair. And i'm flippin good at it. Just coz i doctor was sick, you wouldnt think he was a crap doctor? A dentist with bad teeth? A nanny with no kids? Does it matter? NO

Its the most stupidest thing in the world to think that a muslim women, who has had 2 fight for the right to wear a headscarf in other countries is gonna take it off for a job! I've been turned down for jobs and i'm almost sure its because of the way i dress. One business said straight up you have to take it off.

And for the people on this forum who wouldnt get there hair done because the hairdresser has a headscarf on. 1st if a headscarf doesnt mean you got bad hair underneath, and when you go to a hairdresser, you say "i'm only gonna get my hair done by a hairdresser has got the kind of hairstyle that i'd like on my head"???????? I didnt think so. Its IGNORANCE, and NORROW-MINDEDNESS. And if thats how you think, your gonna rub it off off you children and we'll just get a britain full of more bigots which does us no good.

Im not sure that I saw anyone say people who wear headscarfs cant do hair and I didnt see anyone say they wouldnt get thier hair done by someone who was wearing one??? ....but I did see people discussing about wether or not the lady at the hairdresssers was right or wrong for not employing a lady with a headscarf ...in which I could see valid points from both sides tbh.

Thank you Midna. I wasnt going to respond to any of whats been said about that because I just felt that my point was being completely misunderstood but it seems YOU get it at least!! I wasnt in anyway inferring that the lady with the headscarf was any less of a hairdresser than anyone else. My point was is that its difficult to cast judgement on the hairdresser when we have no idea about her brand, business, how she has built up her success or anything!! We just choose to cast judgement which is surely as prejudiced as those who just cast judgement on people who wear a headscarf??!!

My main point (which continues to be ignored) is that hairdressing falls into an industry which is all about appearance and style. There are specific hairdressers for different styles etc - even "black" hairdressing salons who cater for those with afro hair. If I went to a modelling agency and was turned down because I didnt look right for THEIR PARTICULAR stlye and brand, it wouldnt make them prejudiced against me!! So why would it be any different for another company who operate within the same sort of industry??

I respect all forms of culture and love diversity but I also love my own culture and I think some people get so hell bent on making sure we change our own culture to accept everyone elses that we end up with no culture what so ever and everyone else keeps theirs going strong!! That is not a racist comment and I deeply resent the inference that Im a biggot just because I feel that THIS particular case is wrong. I am NOT against immigration, have many friends of different ethnic persuasions and employ foreign people and give them exactly the same benefits and rights as our UK workers!!