Split post re: UK going downhill

[mummykay]

J-Do1979 I love the way you put stuff ...its always what Im thinking but dont know how to say it lol. Guess some of us are doomed to have preggo brain.

i agree midna, J-Do1979 has a way with words I wish i had lol
i seem to have had my preggo brain for a long time tho

 

[Squiglet]

I dont think taking out facial piercings and removing something which is a religious obligation is the same thing but im sure people are gonna say it is coz of choice blah blah

I think its a dangerous thing to start prioritising when people should or shouldnt be allowed to flout rules and regulations.
If a company has a policy and it exists for a reason that can be substantiated, should it really be flouted for ANY reason, including religious ones?

I appreciate that religion is important to lots of people but piercings may be important to others, tatoos to others etc etc. Who draws the line where to say "well clearly if its religion they should be able to do as they please in this particular circumstance". I think that religion causes many wars and problems because people use it to go against laws etc and it ends up causing all sorts of problems and issues.

Clearly, the validity of religion and tensions caused by it are for another post entirely. I appreciate that religion is very important to some people, but these people should therefore also appreciate that if they CHOOSE to follow their own religion to the letter of the law, then companies or other people may CHOOSE to follow their own policies etc to the letter of the law as well. This is why these problems exist. Im not saying its right but its the way of the world. If I was a veggie and followed that to the letter of the law I would accept that there are certain things I cant eat!!
The way of the world is to cater to the majority - rightly or wrongly. I think that our country does a pretty good job of integrating all forms of life and culture into our society. I just think that people need to accept there are limitations to that as well and as I said, repect the ideals of individual businesses and their policies as we respect different cultures and religions that settle here.

I think its a good point to make that...

The thing that needs to be taught is acceptance.... Acceptance from all sides... people need to accept people are different.. but that does not make them less able to do their job... and others need to accept that some people will not agree with their beliefs or customs.

It seems to me at the moment, that there is a kind of stalemate going on.... where people won't accept people for their capabilities rather than looks, and others refuse to accept that others don't agree with them...

We see it in this very forum... where it has nothing to do with religion or immigration... people getting upset and offended because one person doesn't agree with their point of view.

I can see both points of view... and agree with both... but not the way it has be carried out. The world's not perfect and these types of cases only serve to get peoples backs up and cause debates like this one.

GGG is right, we cannot start blurring lines where discrimination is concerned. It's hard enough to prove discrimination of any kind in the work place.. but it does happen and if we start saying yes but... eventually we will be back to where were years ago..

 

[BabyLove]

What I Feel Strongly About Is The Housing Situation. Whether You Chose To Ignore It Or Not, Its Still a Fact That Britain Is Over Populated & With More and More People Coming Over Here To Start Fresh, Where Will That Leave Us In However Many Years? You Can Keep Building & Building But One Day There Wont Be Anywhere Left and That Worries Me. The Homeless Situation Is Ridiculous As It Is When It Shouldnt Be In This Day & Age, So What Does The Future Hold For Britain? Will Our Children's Children Have a Home? Or If They Do How Much Will They Have To Struggle To Be "Priority" By Then? At Worst, Will THEY Have To Move To Start Fresh Themselves Because There Is No Longer a Place Left For Them Here? You Have To Also Take On Board That Our Reproduction Rate In Britain Is "Statistically" a Lot Lower Than Some Cultures Therefore Are We a Dying Breed In Waiting? That Is My Opinion, Which Is My Right and Im Not Going To Appologise For It. I Am Most Certaintly Not An Ignorant Or Racist Person, I Am Just Expressing What Worries Me About My Future and My Familes.

 

[Jen & Her Men]

I dont think taking out facial piercings and removing something which is a religious obligation is the same thing but im sure people are gonna say it is coz of choice blah blah

I think its a dangerous thing to start prioritising when people should or shouldnt be allowed to flout rules and regulations.
If a company has a policy and it exists for a reason that can be substantiated, should it really be flouted for ANY reason, including religious ones?

I appreciate that religion is important to lots of people but piercings may be important to others, tatoos to others etc etc. Who draws the line where to say "well clearly if its religion they should be able to do as they please in this particular circumstance". I think that religion causes many wars and problems because people use it to go against laws etc and it ends up causing all sorts of problems and issues.

Clearly, the validity of religion and tensions caused by it are for another post entirely. I appreciate that religion is very important to some people, but these people should therefore also appreciate that if they CHOOSE to follow their own religion to the letter of the law, then companies or other people may CHOOSE to follow their own policies etc to the letter of the law as well. This is why these problems exist. Im not saying its right but its the way of the world. If I was a veggie and followed that to the letter of the law I would accept that there are certain things I cant eat!!
The way of the world is to cater to the majority - rightly or wrongly. I think that our country does a pretty good job of integrating all forms of life and culture into our society. I just think that people need to accept there are limitations to that as well and as I said, repect the ideals of individual businesses and their policies as we respect different cultures and religions that settle here.

I think its a good point to make that...

The thing that needs to be taught is acceptance.... Acceptance from all sides... people need to accept people are different.. but that does not make them less able to do their job... and others need to accept that some people will not agree with their beliefs or customs.

It seems to me at the moment, that there is a kind of stalemate going on.... where people won't accept people for their capabilities rather than looks, and others refuse to accept that others don't agree with them...

We see it in this very forum... where it has nothing to do with religion or immigration... people getting upset and offended because one person doesn't agree with their point of view.

I can see both points of view... and agree with both... but not the way it has be carried out. The world's not perfect and these types of cases only serve to get peoples backs up and cause debates like this one.

GGG is right, we cannot start blurring lines where discrimination is concerned. It's hard enough to prove discrimination of any kind in the work place.. but it does happen and if we start saying yes but... eventually we will be back to where were years ago..

Well put Squiglet. I agree that we shouldnt accept discrimination but we should also not label everything we dont agree with as being discrimination. We all need to be a bit more accepting of everyone elses differences. That doesnt mean that we always need to integrate them in with our own views and standpoints because the world would then become a very bland place with everywhere the same. I just think that if we choose to exercise a way of life that is different and expect people to respect that, then we also need to take on board that not EVERY aspect of life is going to be accomodating to that. It doesnt necessarily mean that they dont understand or appreciate the individual and their differences, just in that particular circumstance the differences dont work.

 

[lisa&alex]

after reading the whhooollleeee thread!

im exhausted..

im pretty shocked at some people asking/forcing people to explain how they feel..and being rather narrow minded.

im not religious, im not racist and i dont have strong opinions on immigrants. i dont believe im narrow minded. or ignorant. i dont watch the news and i also dont let others lives effect mine. i think people should be left to have their own opinions, their own lives and their own beliefs. my personal live revolves around worrying about things i can control.. not those i cant.

i think what is more important that we should be teaching our familys and children the importance of being incharge of your own destiny. respecting others and make our childrens lives secure and loving..at the end of the day..our future is in them.. and perhaps making this change is a more realistic idea?

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

i think what is more important that we should be teaching our familys and children the importance of being incharge of your own destiny. respecting others and make our childrens lives secure and loving..at the end of the day..our future is in them.. and perhaps making this change is a more realistic idea?

Absolutely agree with you there

 

[Jen & Her Men]

i think what is more important that we should be teaching our familys and children the importance of being incharge of your own destiny. respecting others and make our childrens lives secure and loving..at the end of the day..our future is in them.. and perhaps making this change is a more realistic idea?

Absolutely agree with you there

Me too

 

[lisa&alex]

mids... u trying to get me to argue with sum1! lol..

i totally agree.. when we were thinking about trying for this baby. one of my questions to alex was. do you really want to bring a child into this world? the way it is going..

it actually scares me to think of what the world will be like when charlotte is a teenager.. i cant control how other people bring up their kids.. the only thing i can control is how i bring my own up.. if i can help shape her into a good person then i think ive dont a good job.. i hope she has good morals, has respect for others and chooses a good career. all i can do is tell her my opinions, and my ideas.. and it will be up to her if she chooses to accept them or fight them..

 

[Squiglet]

after reading the whhooollleeee thread!

im exhausted..

im pretty shocked at some people asking/forcing people to explain how they feel..and being rather narrow minded.

im not religious, im not racist and i dont have strong opinions on immigrants. i dont believe im narrow minded. or ignorant. i dont watch the news and i also dont let others lives effect mine. i think people should be left to have their own opinions, their own lives and their own beliefs. my personal live revolves around worrying about things i can control.. not those i cant.

i think what is more important that we should be teaching our familys and children the importance of being incharge of your own destiny. respecting others and make our childrens lives secure and loving..at the end of the day..our future is in them.. and perhaps making this change is a more realistic idea?

B00000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...lol but I guess your right ...however it is a worry to think what situation our kids are gonna be in a few years time ... I see how we are now ...ok houses and stuff isnt everything ...but a house and good job is providing security...unfortunatly I cant see us ever being in a position to buy a property coz of sh*tty wages....which is a problem with the UK today ... seems people work hard and dont get the basics back ...like a house which people can call their own... I know what I mean even if no one else does loool

I think we all worry about what situation our kids will be in in the future...

My personal worry isn't the situation arising from immigration, housing etc... but what we are doing to the planet as a whole... and will it all go belly up... where our LO's have to fight for food and water... or that a great plague comes and wipes out a vast chunk of the population.. or that a meteor comes crashing into our planet and the devastating effects afterwards... where this whole conversation won't really matter then..

But then I'm weird like that... and I really have to put it to the back of my mind because lets face it... as lisa said ... your life should revolve around things you can control... And I'd go crazy if I dwelled on things like that... no wait...I am already crazy... I'd go more crazy.

 

[lisa&alex]

after reading the whhooollleeee thread!

im exhausted..

im pretty shocked at some people asking/forcing people to explain how they feel..and being rather narrow minded.

im not religious, im not racist and i dont have strong opinions on immigrants. i dont believe im narrow minded. or ignorant. i dont watch the news and i also dont let others lives effect mine. i think people should be left to have their own opinions, their own lives and their own beliefs. my personal live revolves around worrying about things i can control.. not those i cant.

i think what is more important that we should be teaching our familys and children the importance of being incharge of your own destiny. respecting others and make our childrens lives secure and loving..at the end of the day..our future is in them.. and perhaps making this change is a more realistic idea?

B00000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...lol but I guess your right ...however it is a worry to think what situation our kids are gonna be in a few years time ... I see how we are now ...ok houses and stuff isnt everything ...but a house and good job is providing security...unfortunatly I cant see us ever being in a position to buy a property coz of sh*tty wages....which is a problem with the UK today ... seems people work hard and dont get the basics back ...like a house which people can call their own... I know what I mean even if no one else does loool

I think we all worry about what situation our kids will be in in the future...

My personal worry isn't the situation arising from immigration, housing etc... but what we are doing to the planet as a whole... and will it all go belly up... where our LO's have to fight for food and water... or that a great plague comes and wipes out a vast chunk of the population.. or that a meteor comes crashing into our planet and the devastating effects afterwards... where this whole conversation won't really matter then..

But then I'm weird like that... and I really have to put it to the back of my mind because lets face it... as lisa said ... your life should revolve around things you can control... And I'd go crazy if I dwelled on things like that... no wait...I am already crazy... I'd go more crazy.

need i say more?

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

after reading the whhooollleeee thread!

im exhausted..

im pretty shocked at some people asking/forcing people to explain how they feel..and being rather narrow minded.

im not religious, im not racist and i dont have strong opinions on immigrants. i dont believe im narrow minded. or ignorant. i dont watch the news and i also dont let others lives effect mine. i think people should be left to have their own opinions, their own lives and their own beliefs. my personal live revolves around worrying about things i can control.. not those i cant.

i think what is more important that we should be teaching our familys and children the importance of being incharge of your own destiny. respecting others and make our childrens lives secure and loving..at the end of the day..our future is in them.. and perhaps making this change is a more realistic idea?

B00000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...lol but I guess your right ...however it is a worry to think what situation our kids are gonna be in a few years time ... I see how we are now ...ok houses and stuff isnt everything ...but a house and good job is providing security...unfortunatly I cant see us ever being in a position to buy a property coz of sh*tty wages....which is a problem with the UK today ... seems people work hard and dont get the basics back ...like a house which people can call their own... I know what I mean even if no one else does loool

I know what you mean

We're very lucky to have our own house.....but the truth is we pay interest only and its a miricale the mortgage is paid every month, even though our joint income is around 35-40k per year. I cant see us having a house to pass on when we're old, or any assets atall, which means our children will have the same struggles, if not more so as the economy continues to change. Add to that the increasing pressures and costs involved in thier education, and what they do when they finish education, it takes only the most prepared kids to do well I think. Thats down to us as their parents

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

after reading the whhooollleeee thread!

im exhausted..

im pretty shocked at some people asking/forcing people to explain how they feel..and being rather narrow minded.

im not religious, im not racist and i dont have strong opinions on immigrants. i dont believe im narrow minded. or ignorant. i dont watch the news and i also dont let others lives effect mine. i think people should be left to have their own opinions, their own lives and their own beliefs. my personal live revolves around worrying about things i can control.. not those i cant.

i think what is more important that we should be teaching our familys and children the importance of being incharge of your own destiny. respecting others and make our childrens lives secure and loving..at the end of the day..our future is in them.. and perhaps making this change is a more realistic idea?

B00000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...lol but I guess your right ...however it is a worry to think what situation our kids are gonna be in a few years time ... I see how we are now ...ok houses and stuff isnt everything ...but a house and good job is providing security...unfortunatly I cant see us ever being in a position to buy a property coz of sh*tty wages....which is a problem with the UK today ... seems people work hard and dont get the basics back ...like a house which people can call their own... I know what I mean even if no one else does loool

I think we all worry about what situation our kids will be in in the future...

My personal worry isn't the situation arising from immigration, housing etc... but what we are doing to the planet as a whole... and will it all go belly up... where our LO's have to fight for food and water... or that a great plague comes and wipes out a vast chunk of the population.. or that a meteor comes crashing into our planet and the devastating effects afterwards... where this whole conversation won't really matter then..

But then I'm weird like that... and I really have to put it to the back of my mind because lets face it... as lisa said ... your life should revolve around things you can control... And I'd go crazy if I dwelled on things like that... no wait...I am already crazy... I'd go more crazy.

hahahaha you and me both

 

[lisa&alex]

after reading the whhooollleeee thread!

im exhausted..

im pretty shocked at some people asking/forcing people to explain how they feel..and being rather narrow minded.

im not religious, im not racist and i dont have strong opinions on immigrants. i dont believe im narrow minded. or ignorant. i dont watch the news and i also dont let others lives effect mine. i think people should be left to have their own opinions, their own lives and their own beliefs. my personal live revolves around worrying about things i can control.. not those i cant.

i think what is more important that we should be teaching our familys and children the importance of being incharge of your own destiny. respecting others and make our childrens lives secure and loving..at the end of the day..our future is in them.. and perhaps making this change is a more realistic idea?

B00000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...lol but I guess your right ...however it is a worry to think what situation our kids are gonna be in a few years time ... I see how we are now ...ok houses and stuff isnt everything ...but a house and good job is providing security...unfortunatly I cant see us ever being in a position to buy a property coz of sh*tty wages....which is a problem with the UK today ... seems people work hard and dont get the basics back ...like a house which people can call their own... I know what I mean even if no one else does loool

I know what you mean

We're very lucky to have our own house.....but the truth is we pay interest only and its a miricale the mortgage is paid every month, even though our joint income is around 35-40k per year. I cant see us having a house to pass on when we're old, or any assets atall, which means our children will have the same struggles, if not more so as the economy continues to change. Add to that the increasing pressures and costs involved in thier education, and what they do when they finish education, it takes only the most prepared kids to do well I think. Thats down to us as their parents

yeah i see what your saying..but in a way.. i look at it as.. my mum wasnt left anything by her parents/isnt going to be left anything..

she has come from a place with nothing and i mean nothing.. i also havent been given any hand outs and even though i know that, when my mum goes she will leave me and my brother and our children money/house etc..i wouldnt look at my future any differently.. we dont own the house that we live in now.. and we are working towards buying a house next year, alex will also have 1/4 share of his parents house too.. and he also doesnt look at it as yes! i dont have to do anything with my life now coz il have cash when they go..

if this makes sence.. i dont want my kids to think.. i dont have to do anything with my life because my parents will leave me something.. and i want to push myself and my family to earn their lives.. i dont want her to stuggle (charlotte) but then if you dont know the value of things.. ul never stand on your own two feet...

 

[Squiglet]

it takes only the most prepared kids to do well I think. Thats down to us as their parents

I worry about this ...my parents did thier best but I was an impressionable teenager that obviously knew better....however sh*t me I wish Id listened ..hahaha xx

LOL isn't that the saga of many peoples lives...

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

[quote="lisa&alex":1h6i9wp7]after reading the whhooollleeee thread!

im exhausted..

im pretty shocked at some people asking/forcing people to explain how they feel..and being rather narrow minded.

im not religious, im not racist and i dont have strong opinions on immigrants. i dont believe im narrow minded. or ignorant. i dont watch the news and i also dont let others lives effect mine. i think people should be left to have their own opinions, their own lives and their own beliefs. my personal live revolves around worrying about things i can control.. not those i cant.

i think what is more important that we should be teaching our familys and children the importance of being incharge of your own destiny. respecting others and make our childrens lives secure and loving..at the end of the day..our future is in them.. and perhaps making this change is a more realistic idea?

B00000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...lol but I guess your right ...however it is a worry to think what situation our kids are gonna be in a few years time ... I see how we are now ...ok houses and stuff isnt everything ...but a house and good job is providing security...unfortunatly I cant see us ever being in a position to buy a property coz of sh*tty wages....which is a problem with the UK today ... seems people work hard and dont get the basics back ...like a house which people can call their own... I know what I mean even if no one else does loool

I know what you mean

We're very lucky to have our own house.....but the truth is we pay interest only and its a miricale the mortgage is paid every month, even though our joint income is around 35-40k per year. I cant see us having a house to pass on when we're old, or any assets atall, which means our children will have the same struggles, if not more so as the economy continues to change. Add to that the increasing pressures and costs involved in thier education, and what they do when they finish education, it takes only the most prepared kids to do well I think. Thats down to us as their parents

yeah i see what your saying..but in a way.. i look at it as.. my mum wasnt left anything by her parents/isnt going to be left anything..

she has come from a place with nothing and i mean nothing.. i also havent been given any hand outs and even though i know that, when my mum goes she will leave me and my brother and our children money/house etc..i wouldnt look at my future any differently.. we dont own the house that we live in now.. and we are working towards buying a house next year, alex will also have 1/4 share of his parents house too.. and he also doesnt look at it as yes! i dont have to do anything with my life now coz il have cash when they go..

if this makes sence.. i dont want my kids to think.. i dont have to do anything with my life because my parents will leave me something.. and i want to push myself and my family to earn their lives.. i dont want her to stuggle (charlotte) but then if you dont know the value of things.. ul never stand on your own two feet...[/quote:1h6i9wp7]

hmmm good point well made there, I certainly appreciate what we have now because I grew up in poverty, not in spite of it. I guess every parent wants their kids to have the best, its about getting the balance right and not spoiling them I suppose.

 

[Squiglet]

I remember my parents financially struggling as a kid... so the fact that I am too.. doesn't worry me as much... I was fed and cared for at the end of the day.. I might not have had the latest clothes or toys but I had what I needed.

Tia too doesn't have everything she wants but she has what she needs... and the new baby too... I would have loved to buy everything brand new, but tbh, they don't need all the guff they tell you your baby needs... and if you can get it second hand then so be it..

But we all worry about our children and their future.. thats our job as parents..

 

[Lou]

Hi girls.

I've been out all day but I've read through and caught up. Thanks Urchin for speaking for me earlier, it is what I meant about the title of the thread you were right Also....

When I said before that people who have their children christened then never go to church is hypocritical someone said it was rubbish to say that. (Sorry without reading back I can't remember who)! I stand by what I said and it is my view of the way some people choose to dip in and out of religion when it suits them. I'm just saying it how I see it.

I don't want to drag any old crap up, I just wanted to speak up for myself and clear it up.

Lou

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

Hi girls.

I've been out all day but I've read through and caught up. Thanks Urchin for speaking for me earlier, it is what I meant about the title of the thread you were right Also....

When I said before that people who have their children christened then never go to church is hypocritical someone said it was rubbish to say that. (Sorry without reading back I can't remember who)! I stand by what I said and it is my view of the way some people choose to dip in and out of religion when it suits them. I'm just saying it how I see it.

I don't want to drag any old crap up, I just wanted to speak up for myself and clear it up.

Lou

Your right, some people do dip in and out when it suits them - my mother, a self proclaimed athiest, had my little sister babtised as catholic purely so she could into the local catholic school. I completely disagree with things like that, and wont get married in a christian wedding because im not christian so the ritual would mean nothing to me.

I think people need to stand up for what they believe and not cow down to the majority.

 

[Lou]

Hi girls.

I've been out all day but I've read through and caught up. Thanks Urchin for speaking for me earlier, it is what I meant about the title of the thread you were right Also....

When I said before that people who have their children christened then never go to church is hypocritical someone said it was rubbish to say that. (Sorry without reading back I can't remember who)! I stand by what I said and it is my view of the way some people choose to dip in and out of religion when it suits them. I'm just saying it how I see it.

I don't want to drag any old crap up, I just wanted to speak up for myself and clear it up.

Lou

Your right, some people do dip in and out when it suits them - my mother, a self proclaimed athiest, had my little sister babtised as catholic purely so she could into the local catholic school. I completely disagree with things like that, and wont get married in a christian wedding because im not christian so the ritual would mean nothing to me.

I think people need to stand up for what they believe and not cow down to the majority.

My sentiments exactly A while ago we had a thred about christenings (I think I started it) and we talked about people who do it just for good schools and because its expected. I think we are all a little guilty of using religion to a certain extent when us non-christians celebrate christmas though aren't we? I just can't imagine NOT having christmas!! lol

Lou

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

Hi girls.

I've been out all day but I've read through and caught up. Thanks Urchin for speaking for me earlier, it is what I meant about the title of the thread you were right Also....

When I said before that people who have their children christened then never go to church is hypocritical someone said it was rubbish to say that. (Sorry without reading back I can't remember who)! I stand by what I said and it is my view of the way some people choose to dip in and out of religion when it suits them. I'm just saying it how I see it.

I don't want to drag any old crap up, I just wanted to speak up for myself and clear it up.

Lou

Your right, some people do dip in and out when it suits them - my mother, a self proclaimed athiest, had my little sister babtised as catholic purely so she could into the local catholic school. I completely disagree with things like that, and wont get married in a christian wedding because im not christian so the ritual would mean nothing to me.

I think people need to stand up for what they believe and not cow down to the majority.

My sentiments exactly A while ago we had a thred about christenings (I think I started it) and we talked about people who do it just for good schools and because its expected. I think we are all a little guilty of using religion to a certain extent when us non-christians celebrate christmas though aren't we? I just can't imagine NOT having christmas!! lol

Lou

True, but being a pagan I get to celebrate Yule instead

Plus I think xmas is so far removed from the christian celebration of Christmas these days that it doesnt really matter, I just see it now as a time for being with loved ones, having some real good food, giving gifts, and of course watching those crappy films we would never usually watch

It was always that way....well the good food and gifts and being with loved ones, not the TV hehe....it was always celebrated as a winter festival, until the christians got hold of it and overlayed the traditions and myths with thier own, and then coca cola added the image of father christmas, so to me there is nothing christian about christmas anyway.