Split post re: UK going downhill

[Krystal]

I had a really bad experience when I had to stay in hospital some years back. The night staff were awful and could hardly speak english. I was really scared but to be fair I didn't do anything about it except moan. For all of us who feel let down by one system or another can we really put our hand on our hearts and say we have been pro-active in making changes? I know I can't. They only thing we tend to do is vote and hope for the best. I've never volunteered to go and help out at the local charity shop, hospice, care home, school etc. I undertsand the point is that we shouldn't have to but maybe the country would be a better place if we all were more hands on rather than complaining behind closed doors.?

Lou

no i haven't done charity work etc etc etc, but my main issue with Gb is immigration issues and TBH i have absolutely no interest in running to be a politition, i have a life to lead I go out, I work hard and I lead a good life and pay my taxes. don't think not going and being pro active should stop me from voicing my opinion (or complaining as you call it )

 

[Lou]

I had a really bad experience when I had to stay in hospital some years back. The night staff were awful and could hardly speak english. I was really scared but to be fair I didn't do anything about it except moan. For all of us who feel let down by one system or another can we really put our hand on our hearts and say we have been pro-active in making changes? I know I can't. They only thing we tend to do is vote and hope for the best. I've never volunteered to go and help out at the local charity shop, hospice, care home, school etc. I undertsand the point is that we shouldn't have to but maybe the country would be a better place if we all were more hands on rather than complaining behind closed doors.?

Lou

no i haven't done charity work etc etc etc, but my main issue with Gb is immigration issues and TBH i have absolutely no interest in running to be a politition, i have a life to lead I go out, I work hard and I lead a good life and pay my taxes. don't think not going and being pro active should stop me from voicing my opinion (or complaining as you call it )

no it shouldn't stop you. I was just speaking my mind. I am the same as you but i do think we are sometimes quick to moan but not very keen to make changes.

 

[Jen & Her Men]

In fairness to the Polish / Immigrants - is it really their fault if they are employed speaking next to no English and having no training? I would say its the fault of the Employers who see an opportunity (in most cases) to save money by hiring foreign labour. The foreign employees are often thrown in at the deep end with hardly any training and mistakes are made.
If the (mainly English) Employers were a bit more discerning about hiring immigrants (checking their english speaking levels etc) rather than just thinking about the payroll savings, Im sure so many mistakes wouldnt be made. We can hardly blame the Poles for taking the jobs as its us who gives them the positions in the first place and these people earn next to nothing in Poland and have come here with the intention of earning money to send home to families who have nothing.
I have hired 3 Poles for my business, mainly because we have just won contracts out in Poland and need translators. We pay them exactly the same as our UK workers and ensure they are given full training and that their english is at an acceptable level. We have had no issues with them and to be honest they work harder and better than the majority of our UK workers because they are grateful for the work and dont have the same mentality as a lot of UK people of "what can I get out of the company".
Im sure if we didnt empower them by not training them etc then lots of mistakes would be made, and if we paid them less then Im sure it would cause a divide between them and the UK workers who would be fearful that they would be taking over their jobs.
Its the fault of the Employers for cashing in on the immigrants as opposed to the immigrants themselves that causes the culture of fear and resentment that we often have.
I dont for one minute agree with the level of immigration that occurs these days and thing the balance is off, but we have to accept some responsibilty for the situation - its not just the government or the foreigners coming into the country, but the many thousands of employers that are to "blame" (if thats the right word) for the situation.

 

[Krystal]

your completely right, half of these issues don't directly affect me so i don't do anything about them

then again, what the hell do polititions get paid to deal with?

 

[beanie]

In fairness to the Polish / Immigrants - is it really their fault if they are employed speaking next to no English and having no training? I would say its the fault of the Employers who see an opportunity (in most cases) to save money by hiring foreign labour. The foreign employees are often thrown in at the deep end with hardly any training and mistakes are made.
If the (mainly English) Employers were a bit more discerning about hiring immigrants (checking their english speaking levels etc) rather than just thinking about the payroll savings, Im sure so many mistakes wouldnt be made. We can hardly blame the Poles for taking the jobs as its us who gives them the positions in the first place and these people earn next to nothing in Poland and have come here with the intention of earning money to send home to families who have nothing.
I have hired 3 Poles for my business, mainly because we have just won contracts out in Poland and need translators. We pay them exactly the same as our UK workers and ensure they are given full training and that their english is at an acceptable level. We have had no issues with them and to be honest they work harder and better than the majority of our UK workers because they are grateful for the work and dont have the same mentality as a lot of UK people of "what can I get out of the company".
Im sure if we didnt empower them by not training them etc then lots of mistakes would be made, and if we paid them less then Im sure it would cause a divide between them and the UK workers who would be fearful that they would be taking over their jobs.
Its the fault of the Employers for cashing in on the immigrants as opposed to the immigrants themselves that causes the culture of fear and resentment that we often have.
I dont for one minute agree with the level of immigration that occurs these days and thing the balance is off, but we have to accept some responsibilty for the situation - its not just the government or the foreigners coming into the country, but the many thousands of employers that are to "blame" (if thats the right word) for the situation.

completely agree, though am biased as thanks to a Polish immigrant - who by the way speaks fab english and has worked so hard all his life over here - I have my lovely family.

Reading the newspapers the last couple of weeks and the stories that have really shocked me include the one where the young man urinated on a dying woman, one where a man who was killed after being pushed onto a bonfire by three young kids after recieving blows to the head etc etc - these have all been carried out by "British" people. My main concerns are less to do with immigration but more to do with the decline in moral standards, where young kids are filming themselves attacking others for fun, when they don't have respect for elderly people, in a country where the elderly are left to die in cold houses. Personally I think immigration tends to get the blame for everyhting, when in fact we need to take a long look at our society and see what is going wrong. I work with people who can't see the point of working, as they get money for staying at home and all they have to do is show they have been looking for work, when they haven't. Oddly enough these tend to be the ones who blame immigrants for taking all the jobs

 

[annem]

oh i wish i had never read this. I have heated debates with my family a lot about Immigrants.

I know a lot of Immigrants. I see some hard working ones (though most send their money home so do not help our economy) HOWEVER most Immigrants i know are claiming from our benefit system and also involved in illegal activity and are making a killing.

Most do not have valid driving licences. A common thing they do is do a couple of lessons and then send a relative you is a better driver to do their test!

I've been to albania and tbh i hated it but the albanias i know go on about how rubbish england is so i always say well f*ck off back there. Their lives are not that bad there from i've seen. Yeah there are homeless people but there are homeless people here.

BUT as my mum points out some are running away from a bad situation back home which i can understand. Though i can not comment on it because i've not met any of these people but my mum does a lot of charity work etc and assures me some deserve to be here.

Also my dad points out some are great as he can never get cleaners, painters etc in london and they do it.

I think the benefit system is to blame for making it too easy for english people to sit on their bums at home and not get jobs (i'm talking about the ones that can work but won't work). If we had the lazy benefit claiming people doing the jobs we would have less need for Immigrants and would be able to give benefits to more deserving people.

don't get me wrong some are ok but a lot have given Immigrants a bad name!

 

[Kimbo]

i've just read through this..
bl00dy hell

 

[Jen & Her Men]

i've just read through this..
bl00dy hell

 

[Lou]

Just for the record I never really wanted a debate about the UK. Somebody made a comment I took offence to. Then the thread got split and the rest is history! Urchin did ask me if I was ok with the split, i wasn't at first but what the hell, its good to talk about things other than babies sometimes eh!!!?!!

Lou

 

[Melly+2]

Im NOT proud to be British, in fact i wish i wernt. Our government seems more bothered about giving homes and benifits to immigrants then to its own people, why would that make me proud? I wish i coukd go like in New Zealand with the sheep

 

[annem]

Well from this post it would seem alot of people feel the UK is suffering due to immigration ... althou look how else the UK is going down hill with as someone mentioned the housing crisis the NHS, education, crime.... this cant all stem from immigration surely or does it??
.

Its not all due to Immigrants, its just the nhs etc are not getting enough funding as the gov has no idea how many people are here.

Also teachers are over stretched as there are more children per class.

I feel lucky to be here and LOVE england!!

 

[Hypnorm]

There are no Values in the UK now.
Elderly are ingnored
Teachers are not respected.
I have a friend who is a teacher for primary age kids, he gets regularly sworn at, and i have seen the bruises and the cuts from little kids attacking him and telling him to 'fook off' when he has be restraining them from running out of the school.

People have no respect for the Police and as for the justice system well!

I am proud to be british, but i am ashamed at the lack of standards, and polotical correctness gone loopy.

 

[Lou]

Im NOT proud to be British, in fact i wish i wernt. Our government seems more bothered about giving homes and benifits to immigrants then to its own people, why would that make me proud? I wish i coukd go like in New Zealand with the sheep

But British "own people" as you put it do get homes and benefits. If you wish you weren't British and would rather be in New Zealand why don't you go and live in New Zealand? I'm not being sarcastic, you do have options, plenty of people emigrate.

Lou

 

[Melly+2]

because im 20years old with just enough money to support myself and Hope, thats why Plus just coz i would live in New Zealand woukdnt mean i wasnt British, id just live in another country. Its ok you can be sarcastic if you like

 

[Lou]

because im 20years old with just enough money to support myself and Hope, thats why Plus just coz i would live in New Zealand woukdnt mean i wasnt British, id just live in another country. Its ok you can be sarcastic if you like

I wouldn't be sarky about something serious like this. I think if you want things in life you have to make it happen. I could have made do with benefits and a council house but I wanted better for myself. In this country you can have a decent life if you are willing to get off your backside and work for it. Its a shame not everyone has the motivation. OK so you have to pay alot of tax and yes it pays for scumbags in prison and junkies on the dole but thats the system, and you have to do the best you can. And before you reply that was not atall directed at you in any way Its just my thoughts in general.

 

[Squiglet]

I have to admit I am not proud to be British but it has nothing to do with the state the country is in... I think Britain is no better or worse than other country... it has its good points and it's bad... Like everywhere... Yes it has an immigration problem, but so does most of Europe... Like in our area there is a huge influx of Morrocans.. So immigration is immigration.

I never left the UK because I felt there was a problem there or that the grass was green over here... I moved because I couldn't afford childcare and work in the UK but didn't want to live off benefits, and my parents lived here and offered free childcare and a chance to get out of the council estates, which no one can deny, in London are rather dire.

I am more embarrassed to be British because of the way a lot of British people act in foreign countries. I remember getting groped once when in town during New years once over here.. .and the bloke turned around and said it was because all British girls got drunk and wanted sex Plus a lot of British people tend to go mental, get drunk, shout abuse at residents, puke up in the street.... I hate summer here for that reason. Also a lot of British people come here, complain about the Spaniards and the system, refuse to learn even a few simple frases in a language, which in all honesty isn't that difficult... yet refuse to go back to England because it's crap too.... and that to me seems hypocritical and I hate hypocritical people. I know not every Brit is like that... I'm not for example... but its what other people think of British people and well sometimes you get embarrassed to be associated with that... I think anyone with any decency would.

But before I start people shouting, don't live in the UK then etc... I can't say I haven't thought about returning to the UK, as I said, its not all that bad, there are many things I miss, but home is where the heart is and my family are here so I will be staying. I will also be changing my nationality to Spanish too.. but you have to live here for 10 years before you can do that. I think I consider myself more European than British, because I don't really blend into the British culture very well... or I could just be weird.. I'm not sure...

BTW I will always love my cuppa tea...

 

[Krystal]

i think we've prob demonstrated quite well one of problems with England... we have no national pride.. it's not instilled into us. Look at the scots.. they are fantastic for all of that, they are proud of their heritage, they have a fabulous history and they shout it from roof tops.. we dont even celebrate st georges day!! kids aren't taught anything about our history etc. thats one thing that annoys me. we also have an amazing history. I AM PROUD. yes we have our problems and loads of issues i dont agree with but i think our little island is pretty fab

 

[Melly+2]

because im 20years old with just enough money to support myself and Hope, thats why Plus just coz i would live in New Zealand woukdnt mean i wasnt British, id just live in another country. Its ok you can be sarcastic if you like

I wouldn't be sarky about something serious like this. I think if you want things in life you have to make it happen. I could have made do with benefits and a council house but I wanted better for myself. In this country you can have a decent life if you are willing to get off your backside and work for it. Its a shame not everyone has the motivation. OK so you have to pay alot of tax and yes it pays for scumbags in prison and junkies on the dole but thats the system, and you have to do the best you can. And before you reply that was not atall directed at you in any way Its just my thoughts in general.

thats ok you have your opinions and i respect that of you, i have mine too its all good

 

[Squiglet]

i think we've prob demonstrated quite well one of problems with England... we have no national pride.. it's not instilled into us. Look at the scots.. they are fantastic for all of that, they are proud of their heritage, they have a fabulous history and they shout it from roof tops.. we dont even celebrate st georges day!! kids aren't taught anything about our history etc. thats one thing that annoys me. we also have an amazing history. I AM PROUD. yes we have our problems and loads of issues i dont agree with but i think our little island is pretty fab

I have to agree with that 100%... My parents are scots.. (well with a name like Anne Morag Stewart, I'm not exactly fooling anyone am I ) and I was always brought up to have immense pride in my Scottish heritage... and about defeating the English army on nothing but porridge and oat cakes The massacre at Glen Coe.... etc...

My father never ever tells people he is British, he is Scottish...

 

[annem]

I remember getting groped once when in town during New years once over here.. .and the bloke turned around and said it was because all British girls got drunk and wanted sex

Yeah some British girls have done us any favours. We are known for being easy