can you actually afford to have a baby?

[tinytoes]

The best love care and intentions in the world will not feed and dress a child . Nobody is dictating who should or shouldn't have a child but just questioning the common sense in having one when you can't afford to feed yourself ? It's not aimed at anyone person more the attitude of having children being a right . It's not a right it's a privlage and a responsibility

 

[Hunnie]

I don't have a problem with the benefit system as long as it used properly. What I cannot stand is people who get onto the system then make no effort to get off it again or people who fake disabilities or have children just for the benefit rewards such as getting a house etc.

My OH works over 80 hours a week (guesstimate) he can go out at 5 in the morning and not come back till 3 the following morning and this is the same most weeks. Ive just finished college and got myself a part time job whilst my MIL and mother take it in turns to babysit for the two days that I work.

We couldn't essentially afford to have our LO but my OH was fortunate to have a huge amount of work available to him so that we could get on our feet as well as having savings so we could put a hefty deposit down and buy our own home. We receive no benefits other than the usual child benefit that everyone is entitled to. We don't have any bank loans and the only debt we have is a small ish amount of money that we owe his mum. Whilst I only work part time we most likely wouldn't be able to afford another child but if we were blessed with one then we would find a way in order to supply for both children.

I feel the benefit system misses out the people who earn too much to be entitled for benefits and when we most need extra help we have no one to turn to. I also think more needs to be done to help working parents with childcare. I'd love to work more hours but in reality I can't afford to put her into nursery just yet and I don't think it's a fair expectation for our family to always have to look after LO.

 

[Wobbles]

If you don't like the topic then don't join in.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy discussion even a debate if those participating can do so in a civilised manner.

It is up to yourselves if you take a hot topic personal but please don't flame the thread or tell members what should and shouldn't be posted on the pregnancy forum.

 

[redbear]

i just disagree with telling anyone saying someone shouldn't have kids. i think a forum for people already having kids is a strange place to have the discussion as i said it will just upset members. people in Africa have babies but can't feed them maybe we should worry about them?

 

[redbear]

im not saying they can't talk about what they want just saying i don't think its really a nice thing for people in that situation to read. Admin have stopped bf vs ff before because people where upset before so thought they whould now

 

[tinytoes]

Threads are locked when things get heated and lots of people are arguing . This is actually a civilised debate and I think its great to see something that could be inflammatory being discussed in a calm manner.

Just to add there is a huge difference between a sexually uneducated person in a third world county who may not have access to contraception having a child and someone who has no financial support choosing to have a child so I don't think starving children in africa is entirely relevant

 

[Me, My Girls & I]

I don't think you can compare people in the UK having babies whilst on benefits to people in a 3rd world country having babies!

 

[LikeJohnnYoko]

i just disagree with telling anyone saying someone shouldn't have kids. i think a forum for people already having kids is a strange place to have the discussion as i said it will just upset members. people in Africa have babies but can't feed them maybe we should worry about them?

im not saying they can't talk about what they want just saying i don't think its really a nice thing for people in that situation to read. Admin have stopped bf vs ff before because people where upset before so thought they whould now

I think this is an incredibly extreme comparison, and there are many, many charities working to emancipate and sexually educate women across the third world, including given them access to contraception.

I don't think that that is in any way comparable to people living in this country.

It is perfectly okay to express a contentious view, as long as it is done respectfully (which it was.) it was also challenged respectfully. I, as a childless women who is within the benefits system respects what was said and it does not upset me.

The problem isn't with the benefits system, incidentally, its with the minimum living wage in this country, the lack of rights and support for parents (childcare being the prime example.) until that is sorted out and actually reaches levels that can sustain a quality of life in the UK in the current financial climate, people will be turning to benefit as it is increasingly the only financial certainty for them.

 

[littlemiss83]

People in third world countries dont have contraception like we do in the uk and in many third world countries women are raped and have no option, many are raped by their own husbands.

No one is saying that people on benefits are bad parents, its just not the best decision to make ttc while on benefits, for the reason that its not exactly the best for the child is it, everyone knows that being on benefits isn't loads of money (im sure many on here can testify to that) so why subject a child to...just surviving, paying for the minimum. Money certainly doesn't buy love, but it can help very much so to make a child have a steady upbringing. I feel genuinely bad for people who have ended up relying on benefits, perhaps they have lost their job or something similar, its rotten for them.

Just because this thread is about a subject that annoys people doesn't mean it should be shut down. As someone else said, as long as there is no arguments where is the problem. It is a real life issue.

 

[tabbi]

Right there are so many problems with the benefit system.
1) drunks who are getting benefits also get vouchers for booze £25 a day for booze that tax payers pay for.
2) ESA people who make a claim for esa get no questions asked for the first 6 months then they see a doctor who gives the yes or no to them claiming.
3) drug users who claim JSA are also able to ask for a crsis loan for when they want there fix all they have say is they have spent there money
4) there are also community grants paid by again tax payers, now people can apply to move house even for a morgatge. plus they can apply for anything for there homes.
5)mother's who have children dont have to work until child is 5 even then they only have to attend interviews every 6 months

these are some flaws in the benefits system...tax payers pay for people to get there fixes and to get pissed when they cant afford to and they work. its not fair. women who struggle or better yet men/women/families who struggle with child care the money should be given to them to help with keeping them in work

for me to work and i dont have family support as my OH family all work my family are 138 miles away and work so our child care is going to be roughly £320 per week. my rent alone is £700 per month as well. its tough going but we'll make it work. x x x

 

[Tara1985]

i just disagree with telling anyone saying someone shouldn't have kids. i think a forum for people already having kids is a strange place to have the discussion as i said it will just upset members. people in Africa have babies but can't feed them maybe we should worry about them?

im not saying they can't talk about what they want just saying i don't think its really a nice thing for people in that situation to read. Admin have stopped bf vs ff before because people where upset before so thought they whould now

The problem isn't with the benefits system, incidentally, its with the minimum living wage in this country, the lack of rights and support for parents (childcare being the prime example.) until that is sorted out and actually reaches levels that can sustain a quality of life in the UK in the current financial climate, people will be turning to benefit as it is increasingly the only financial certainty for them.

Couldn't agree more however I do think there are floors in the benefit system, for example middle earners that have families not being able to bridge the gap financially with child care like you say. Surely that is a problem with the benefits system?

 

[LikeJohnnYoko]

i just disagree with telling anyone saying someone shouldn't have kids. i think a forum for people already having kids is a strange place to have the discussion as i said it will just upset members. people in Africa have babies but can't feed them maybe we should worry about them?

im not saying they can't talk about what they want just saying i don't think its really a nice thing for people in that situation to read. Admin have stopped bf vs ff before because people where upset before so thought they whould now

The problem isn't with the benefits system, incidentally, its with the minimum living wage in this country, the lack of rights and support for parents (childcare being the prime example.) until that is sorted out and actually reaches levels that can sustain a quality of life in the UK in the current financial climate, people will be turning to benefit as it is increasingly the only financial certainty for them.

Couldn't agree more however I do think there are floors in the benefit system, for example middle earners that have families not being able to bridge the gap financially with child care like you say. Surely that is a problem with the benefits system?

Access to affordable childcare shouldn't be seen as a "benefit" - it should be a right, like it is in many other countries, much like extended parental leave. I believe it (along with child benefit) should be an entirely separate thing from the benefit system.

There are large flaws with the benefit system, yes, especially concerning how claims and assessments are dealt with, but if you try and change/overhaul that without first putting into place a framework to make the minimum wage in the UK once again correlate with the minimum amount of pay to maintain an acceptable standard of living any changes to the benefit system will do far more harm than good.

There is a large bracket of people that don't get out equal to what they put in, which obviously needs to change. Those who work hard and get little back have increasingly smaller incentives to go out and work so hard and miss so much.

 

[Tara1985]

Ok understand now, yes you are so right. It's hard to make myself clear/understand sometimes when writing

I was actually having a similar conversation with Dyscochick a few weeks back. Scandinavia is a prime example of what Britian should be aiming for in terms of parental leave from work and child care. I'm not knocking the country, we do have so much gong for us for example the NHS. I just think things need reassessing...

 

[Iriki]

Morning all, just checking up on this thread again and want to re-iterate what I meant about people on minimum wages ttc etc as it seems to have hit a sore note with a lot of people, which was never my intention.
I simply meant that if people are already struggling to make ends meet on low incomes, introducing a child ( let's face it a source if endless and unexpected expenses - well mine are!) into the mix is not a very sensible decision as the financial situation will only deteriorate. I suggested waiting until finances were in a better condition so the experience of parenthood could be enjoyable and less stressful. It just seems like a logical, mature and practical course of action to me.
I also agree with what some of the other posters mentioned, when you decide to start a family, you have to factor in some of the longer term expenses - it's not just about the buggy and carseat. On-going child care and after school care all need to be taken into account.... You can't just decide a few months before your scheduled return to work that all of a sudden it's not a viable financial option anymore or that because there's very little difference between what your take home pay after expenses will be and state benefits that you'll just chuck it all in the too hard basket, put your hand out and stay at home.
Yes, going to work might not mean you're any better off financially than being on benefits but the difference is that YOU will be providing for your family not the state. You will also be keeping yourself in the work force and available for any promotional opportunities or chances to up-skill. By opting out of the workforce, you are effectively taking a few steps down the career progression ladder, as when you do return to work you will be starting back where you left off as opposed to being a few years richer in experience - hope I've explained that correctly!

 

[LikeJohnnYoko]

Ok understand now, yes you are so right. It's hard to make myself clear/understand sometimes when writing

I was actually having a similar conversation with Dyscochick a few weeks back. Scandinavia is a prime example of what Britian should be aiming for in terms of parental leave from work and child care. I'm not knocking the country, we do have so much gong for us for example the NHS. I just think things need reassessing...

Yes exactly, although there is a lot going on that is taking the NHS apart piece by piece.

 

[Me, My Girls & I]

Tabi, the mothers not having to work only applies to single parents and trust me? It's bloody hard work! I found myself a single parent to a 11month old and was also 36 weeks pregnant! Prior to that I'd never claimed a single benefit, bar family allowance and wouldn't have had to! But had I returned to work I would have been financially worse off! I'm so grateful for the fact the support was there when I needed it! I do agree the system is fundamentally flawed tho! I know myself and numerous others have gone into their interviews and said they're wanting to go back to work only to be told by job centre employees that it's not worth it!

There are some major reforms needed, our childcare prices are the highest in Europe, if not the world! It just makes it so difficult!

 

[tabbi]

Tabi, the mothers not having to work only applies to single parents and trust me? It's bloody hard work! I found myself a single parent to a 11month old and was also 36 weeks pregnant! Prior to that I'd never claimed a single benefit, bar family allowance and wouldn't have had to! But had I returned to work I would have been financially worse off! I'm so grateful for the fact the support was there when I needed it! I do agree the system is fundamentally flawed tho! I know myself and numerous others have gone into their interviews and said they're wanting to go back to work only to be told by job centre employees that it's not worth it!

There are some major reforms needed, our childcare prices are the highest in Europe, if not the world! It just makes it so difficult!

i was a single mum to a 1 year old just turned trying to work but my old job wouldnt take me as i couldnt say for certain that i could work certain shifts which they needed as they were 12hr ones through an agency as a carer. i know its a struggle to work, but its rewarding to know your doing it on your own so good on you x x x

 

[MrsR]

I have to say I have actually enjoyed this discussion and see no reason for it to be locked.
As someone who is part of a family unit claiming benefits nothing that has been said has offended me. Perhaps this is because I know this is a stop-gap for us, using the system as it is meant to be used, for support and not as 'income' on which to raise child after child.
There is no comparison between people in third world countries and here! Not one that can be drawn in this conversation anyway.

 

[Iriki]

I have to say I have actually enjoyed this discussion and see no reason for it to be locked.
As someone who is part of a family unit claiming benefits nothing that has been said has offended me. Perhaps this is because I know this is a stop-gap for us, using the system as it is meant to be used, for support and not as 'income' on which to raise child after child.
There is no comparison between people in third world countries and here! Not one that can be drawn in this conversation anyway.

Hear Hear

 

[Titch85]

OH and I have both worked since we left school at 16, I worked part time while I studied at college and OH started an apprenticeship. We have worked full time since we qualified. OH's brother is a healthy 30 year old, and has been on benefits for the last 8 years. He's had a few part times job but always finds a reason not to go back. Last summer (2011) he had a part time job in the warehouse at TKMaxx but decided he didn't like it and quit. He's not worked since, he just sits at home and claims his benefits. He still lives at home, and doesn't contribute a penny to the household or lift a finger. As an apprentice, OH was on less than minimum wage but still paid his Mum £100 a month.

This is what makes me so mad!