can you actually afford to have a baby?

[becciboo26]

Minimum wage is different completely IMO.

It's money that has been earned.

The problem in my eyes isn't the amount of money required to raise a child, but the sense of entitlement. I'm not talking about people who are trying to get a job, or trying the better themselves. There are people on benefits who are desperately trying to get off them.

I think the girls were referring to women who never have any intention of ever working, think its okay for them to have kids despite having no earned income. It's completely different to those who fall on hard times, unexpected pregnancy, on benefits whilst at uni/studying etc...

It's not that these ladies don't have a right to have children, I just think that TTC whilst intending to always be on benefits out of laziness is wrong. The are, some women who try to get pregnant so they can get a bigger council house! It's that kind of behaviour that upsets me.

My OH works two jobs, and does to uni Because we couldn't afford child are for me to go back to work at the moment. We get by without benefits, but would use them if we needed them.

The system is flawed! There's no help for us because OH is a student, and none for me to go back to uni.

I'm not saying we should be entitled to help or anything, just that it's a rubbish system.

Exactly!!

Too many people have taken offence at the wrong thing here - i totally agree with this!

 

[Happyfeet]

I agree, minimum wage needs to be in line with the cost of living. But until it is, I think people have to tailor their aspirations to their financial capabilities.
What's wrong with waiting to be in a better financial situation before you start your family? I was 33 when I had my son and 38 when I had my daughter in Dec. I don't consider myself a geriatric but as a result of waiting, we have a lovely family home, savings, disposable income and whatever else we get stressed about it's not about putting food on the table or paying for the kids classes or school fees.
Don't get me wrong, we have to budget like everyone else, we're dairy farmers and have overheads to meet and bank managers to keep happy!
But my point is we had to wait to start our family until we were in a financial position to do so, and I struggle with the idea that people can't do the same. I want to do the best for my family ( as i imagine we all do) so bringing children into a situation where I would be relying on benefits and vouchers to feed and clothe them would not sit well with me. Especially when it can be avoided.
Life happens, none of us knows what's round the corner and we could all end up on benefits at some stage to get us through a tough time. As an emergency measure. But I strongly believe that nobody is entitled to be on benefits long term simply by virtue of the fact that their income can not meet their expenditure once children enter into the mix. The state doesn't have any responsibility for the conception of children why should we expect the state to provide for them?

Oh so you're moaning about people getting tax credits top ups now! When we started our family we got no help what so ever from the benefits system but we put a lot in, and now that we get some tax credits as we have a lower income, it's wrong? So people who are legitimately entitled to help shouldn't be taking it?

The fact is, some people don't want to be in their thirties when they have babies. I'm sorry you can't get your head around low income workers having families, not really my problem. I'd suggest that you look why it bugs you so much. Not everyone can earn loads of money these days, there simply isn't the work for everyone!

I think you've misinterpreted my post, I haven't mentioned tax credits at all. I have no issue with low income workers, as long as someone can afford to pay for their lifestyle they can crack on.
I accept that people have different values and expectations from life and that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I really don't think there is any need to become personal.

How exactly am I getting personal? Perhaps I have misinterpreted your post, bt with the way you started off on the thread saying that workers on minimum wage shouldn't be ttc, can you blame me?

I've just been flabbergasted by some of the things you have said R.E low income workers.

 

[diane]

I agree happy feet.

 

[littlemiss83]

At the end of the day its your own choice, if you want to ttc while your income is unstable or not ideal, then thats your decision. It would be irresponsible for you to then rely on benefits because you made the decision to have babies. There is more to take into consideration rather than 2 people just "wanting" to have babies. I want many things in life that I cant get for many reasons, some being that I cant afford them. The same goes for children. People have the right to decide. If they decide to go ahead and ttc without being financially secure then thats what they've decided and shouldnt expect the state to put money towards that.

Just because people can have babies, it doesn't mean they should. Yes you could go and fall pregnant whenever you wanted, but would it be responsible to say - I couldn't really afford it but decided to do it anyway as we might never be financially secure. Everyone has the right, yes. But they shouldn't then go looking for others (the state) to help.

 

[redbear]

I agree, minimum wage needs to be in line with the cost of living. But until it is, I think people have to tailor their aspirations to their financial capabilities.
What's wrong with waiting to be in a better financial situation before you start your family? I was 33 when I had my son and 38 when I had my daughter in Dec. I don't consider myself a geriatric but as a result of waiting, we have a lovely family home, savings, disposable income and whatever else we get stressed about it's not about putting food on the table or paying for the kids classes or school fees.
Don't get me wrong, we have to budget like everyone else, we're dairy farmers and have overheads to meet and bank managers to keep happy!
But my point is we had to wait to start our family until we were in a financial position to do so, and I struggle with the idea that people can't do the same. I want to do the best for my family ( as i imagine we all do) so bringing children into a situation where I would be relying on benefits and vouchers to feed and clothe them would not sit well with me. Especially when it can be avoided.
Life happens, none of us knows what's round the corner and we could all end up on benefits at some stage to get us through a tough time. As an emergency measure. But I strongly believe that nobody is entitled to be on benefits long term simply by virtue of the fact that their income can not meet their expenditure once children enter into the mix. The state doesn't have any responsibility for the conception of children why should we expect the state to provide for them?

Oh so you're moaning about people getting tax credits top ups now! When we started our family we got no help what so ever from the benefits system but we put a lot in, and now that we get some tax credits as we have a lower income, it's wrong? So people who are legitimately entitled to help shouldn't be taking it?

The fact is, some people don't want to be in their thirties when they have babies. I'm sorry you can't get your head around low income workers having families, not really my problem. I'd suggest that you look why it bugs you so much. Not everyone can earn loads of money these days, there simply isn't the work for everyone!

I think you've misinterpreted my post, I haven't mentioned tax credits at all. I have no issue with low income workers, as long as someone can afford to pay for their lifestyle they can crack on.
I accept that people have different values and expectations from life and that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I really don't think there is any need to become personal.

How exactly am I getting personal? Perhaps I have misinterpreted your post, bt with the way you started off on the thread saying that workers on minimum wage shouldn't be ttc, can you blame me?

I've just been flabbergasted by some of the things you have said R.E low income workers.

I think we should walk to asda and ask some of the over 40 workers why they are not on a lot of money with savings some people never get better paid jobs im afraid

 

[Iriki]

At the end of the day its your own choice, if you want to ttc while your income is unstable or not ideal, then thats your decision. It would be irresponsible for you to then rely on benefits because you made the decision to have babies. There is more to take into consideration rather than 2 people just "wanting" to have babies. I want many things in life that I cant get for many reasons, some being that I cant afford them. The same goes for children. People have the right to decide. If they decide to go ahead and ttc without being financially secure then thats what they've decided and shouldnt expect the state to put money towards that.

Just because people can have babies, it doesn't mean they should. Yes you could go and fall pregnant whenever you wanted, but would it be responsible to say - I couldn't really afford it but decided to do it anyway as we might never be financially secure. Everyone has the right, yes. But they shouldn't then go looking for others (the state) to help.

^^^^^ this exactly!!!!
I don't care how much or how little people earn, how many children they have or want to have and what age they decide to have these children.
All I care about is that they live within their means and pay their way.

 

[tinytoes]

At the end of the day its your own choice, if you want to ttc while your income is unstable or not ideal, then thats your decision. It would be irresponsible for you to then rely on benefits because you made the decision to have babies. There is more to take into consideration rather than 2 people just "wanting" to have babies. I want many things in life that I cant get for many reasons, some being that I cant afford them. The same goes for children. People have the right to decide. If they decide to go ahead and ttc without being financially secure then thats what they've decided and shouldnt expect the state to put money towards that.

Just because people can have babies, it doesn't mean they should. Yes you could go and fall pregnant whenever you wanted, but would it be responsible to say - I couldn't really afford it but decided to do it anyway as we might never be financially secure. Everyone has the right, yes. But they shouldn't then go looking for others (the state) to help.

^^^^^ this exactly!!!!
I don't care how much or how little people earn, how many children they have or want to have and what age they decide to have these children.
All I care about is that they live within their means and pay their way.

Exactly ! If your warning minimum wage and can afford a child wonderful ! If you can't then where's the sense in having a child ?

 

[Happyfeet]

[/QUOTE]I think we should walk to asda and ask some of the over 40 workers why they are not on a lot of money with savings some people never get better paid jobs im afraid[/QUOTE]

Completely true! At the end of the day, if EVERYONE kept continually moving up the career ladder (the logistics of which just blow my mind though), who would work in the supermarkets, petrol stations, restaurants, factories etc? Couldn't possibly be the youth of today as they'd surely all be at uni!

 

[Happyfeet]

Damn! My quote failed haha

 

[cosmicgirl]

At the end of the day its your own choice, if you want to ttc while your income is unstable or not ideal, then thats your decision. It would be irresponsible for you to then rely on benefits because you made the decision to have babies. There is more to take into consideration rather than 2 people just "wanting" to have babies. I want many things in life that I cant get for many reasons, some being that I cant afford them. The same goes for children. People have the right to decide. If they decide to go ahead and ttc without being financially secure then thats what they've decided and shouldnt expect the state to put money towards that.

Just because people can have babies, it doesn't mean they should. Yes you could go and fall pregnant whenever you wanted, but would it be responsible to say - I couldn't really afford it but decided to do it anyway as we might never be financially secure. Everyone has the right, yes. But they shouldn't then go looking for others (the state) to help.

I agree.
I'd like a Porsche but I can't afford to maintain one, so I can't have one.

Children aren't a right, they are a privilege and a blessing.
I think there's a lot to be said for saying "you know what, I'd love a child NOW but I know I need to be in a better position first to give that child everything they need and deserve".
That's quite a selfless attitude isn't it.

I think if both parents are working then yeah, you can budget and do what you need to do (minimum wage or not) but the people I am talking about are the people on benefits who have NO intention of working, never have and never will and just think "well everyone else can pay for me and mine".
If you can't support yourself financially then what business do you have bringing a child into the world??

Again, not talking about folk on disability or those who have found themselves pregnant or been pregnant then found themselves unemployed - totally different for me.

 

[netty]

really constructive with the asda quote?

many people have missed the point entirely

i for one think this is a healthy debate and interesting to see peoples opinions.

no need for anyone to take it personally, everyone is allowed an opinion.

All i see being debated is the logic in choosing to bring up a child knowing full well you can not provide.

Noone has been personally attacked?

 

[netty]

At the end of the day its your own choice, if you want to ttc while your income is unstable or not ideal, then thats your decision. It would be irresponsible for you to then rely on benefits because you made the decision to have babies. There is more to take into consideration rather than 2 people just "wanting" to have babies. I want many things in life that I cant get for many reasons, some being that I cant afford them. The same goes for children. People have the right to decide. If they decide to go ahead and ttc without being financially secure then thats what they've decided and shouldnt expect the state to put money towards that.

Just because people can have babies, it doesn't mean they should. Yes you could go and fall pregnant whenever you wanted, but would it be responsible to say - I couldn't really afford it but decided to do it anyway as we might never be financially secure. Everyone has the right, yes. But they shouldn't then go looking for others (the state) to help.

I think this was very well said

 

[cosmicgirl]

I agree, minimum wage needs to be in line with the cost of living. But until it is, I think people have to tailor their aspirations to their financial capabilities.
What's wrong with waiting to be in a better financial situation before you start your family? I was 33 when I had my son and 38 when I had my daughter in Dec. I don't consider myself a geriatric but as a result of waiting, we have a lovely family home, savings, disposable income and whatever else we get stressed about it's not about putting food on the table or paying for the kids classes or school fees.
Don't get me wrong, we have to budget like everyone else, we're dairy farmers and have overheads to meet and bank managers to keep happy!
But my point is we had to wait to start our family until we were in a financial position to do so, and I struggle with the idea that people can't do the same. I want to do the best for my family ( as i imagine we all do) so bringing children into a situation where I would be relying on benefits and vouchers to feed and clothe them would not sit well with me. Especially when it can be avoided.
Life happens, none of us knows what's round the corner and we could all end up on benefits at some stage to get us through a tough time. As an emergency measure. But I strongly believe that nobody is entitled to be on benefits long term simply by virtue of the fact that their income can not meet their expenditure once children enter into the mix. The state doesn't have any responsibility for the conception of children why should we expect the state to provide for them?

Oh so you're moaning about people getting tax credits top ups now! When we started our family we got no help what so ever from the benefits system but we put a lot in, and now that we get some tax credits as we have a lower income, it's wrong? So people who are legitimately entitled to help shouldn't be taking it?

The fact is, some people don't want to be in their thirties when they have babies. I'm sorry you can't get your head around low income workers having families, not really my problem. I'd suggest that you look why it bugs you so much. Not everyone can earn loads of money these days, there simply isn't the work for everyone!

I think you've misinterpreted my post, I haven't mentioned tax credits at all. I have no issue with low income workers, as long as someone can afford to pay for their lifestyle they can crack on.
I accept that people have different values and expectations from life and that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I really don't think there is any need to become personal.

How exactly am I getting personal? Perhaps I have misinterpreted your post, bt with the way you started off on the thread saying that workers on minimum wage shouldn't be ttc, can you blame me?

I've just been flabbergasted by some of the things you have said R.E low income workers.

I think we should walk to asda and ask some of the over 40 workers why they are not on a lot of money with savings some people never get better paid jobs im afraid

Eh asda don't pay too badly yknow, my oh is a manger there (started as security) but they pay quite a good wage

 

[cosmicgirl]

really constructive with the asda quote?

many people have missed the point entirely

i for one think this is a healthy debate and interesting to see peoples opinions.

no need for anyone to take it personally, everyone is allowed an opinion.

All i see being debated is the logic in choosing to bring up a child knowing full well you can not provide.

Noone has been personally attacked?

Agree - common sense x

 

[redbear]

I agree, minimum wage needs to be in line with the cost of living. But until it is, I think people have to tailor their aspirations to their financial capabilities.
What's wrong with waiting to be in a better financial situation before you start your family? I was 33 when I had my son and 38 when I had my daughter in Dec. I don't consider myself a geriatric but as a result of waiting, we have a lovely family home, savings, disposable income and whatever else we get stressed about it's not about putting food on the table or paying for the kids classes or school fees.
Don't get me wrong, we have to budget like everyone else, we're dairy farmers and have overheads to meet and bank managers to keep happy!
But my point is we had to wait to start our family until we were in a financial position to do so, and I struggle with the idea that people can't do the same. I want to do the best for my family ( as i imagine we all do) so bringing children into a situation where I would be relying on benefits and vouchers to feed and clothe them would not sit well with me. Especially when it can be avoided.
Life happens, none of us knows what's round the corner and we could all end up on benefits at some stage to get us through a tough time. As an emergency measure. But I strongly believe that nobody is entitled to be on benefits long term simply by virtue of the fact that their income can not meet their expenditure once children enter into the mix. The state doesn't have any responsibility for the conception of children why should we expect the state to provide for them?

Oh so you're moaning about people getting tax credits top ups now! When we started our family we got no help what so ever from the benefits system but we put a lot in, and now that we get some tax credits as we have a lower income, it's wrong? So people who are legitimately entitled to help shouldn't be taking it?

The fact is, some people don't want to be in their thirties when they have babies. I'm sorry you can't get your head around low income workers having families, not really my problem. I'd suggest that you look why it bugs you so much. Not everyone can earn loads of money these days, there simply isn't the work for everyone!

I think you've misinterpreted my post, I haven't mentioned tax credits at all. I have no issue with low income workers, as long as someone can afford to pay for their lifestyle they can crack on.
I accept that people have different values and expectations from life and that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I really don't think there is any need to become personal.

How exactly am I getting personal? Perhaps I have misinterpreted your post, bt with the way you started off on the thread saying that workers on minimum wage shouldn't be ttc, can you blame me?

I've just been flabbergasted by some of the things you have said R.E low income workers.

I think we should walk to asda and ask some of the over 40 workers why they are not on a lot of money with savings some people never get better paid jobs im afraid

Eh asda don't pay too badly yknow, my oh is a manger there (started as security) but they pay quite a good wage

Wasn't personally aimed at asda workers lmao just that there are older people who have to work minimum wage jobs even in there 40's because there is nothing else its not always this wonderful world where if you work you end up on good money sometimes there isn't promotions etc and you carry on working where you can even if the wage is bad

 

[redbear]

really constructive with the asda quote?

many people have missed the point entirely

i for one think this is a healthy debate and interesting to see peoples opinions.

no need for anyone to take it personally, everyone is allowed an opinion.

All i see being debated is the logic in choosing to bring up a child knowing full well you can not provide.

Noone has been personally attacked?

I wasnt taking it personally again just making a point, people are saying wait until your on a good wage- what if that wage never comes?

 

[netty]

just because you earn min wage doesnt mean you cant save, my oh was redundant for the forst year we lived together and i earned 12k a year thats less than 1000 a month and my rent is 500. But i had a dream of a baby and i saved for it.

now 4 years on i have my security, and oh has a job.

I just had to wait for it thats all.

and i a,m glad i did, i didt go out, i didnt have new things, i didnt have anything but now i will have eveyrthing for my baby when it comes.

 

[tinytoes]

I agree, minimum wage needs to be in line with the cost of living. But until it is, I think people have to tailor their aspirations to their financial capabilities.
What's wrong with waiting to be in a better financial situation before you start your family? I was 33 when I had my son and 38 when I had my daughter in Dec. I don't consider myself a geriatric but as a result of waiting, we have a lovely family home, savings, disposable income and whatever else we get stressed about it's not about putting food on the table or paying for the kids classes or school fees.
Don't get me wrong, we have to budget like everyone else, we're dairy farmers and have overheads to meet and bank managers to keep happy!
But my point is we had to wait to start our family until we were in a financial position to do so, and I struggle with the idea that people can't do the same. I want to do the best for my family ( as i imagine we all do) so bringing children into a situation where I would be relying on benefits and vouchers to feed and clothe them would not sit well with me. Especially when it can be avoided.
Life happens, none of us knows what's round the corner and we could all end up on benefits at some stage to get us through a tough time. As an emergency measure. But I strongly believe that nobody is entitled to be on benefits long term simply by virtue of the fact that their income can not meet their expenditure once children enter into the mix. The state doesn't have any responsibility for the conception of children why should we expect the state to provide for them?

Oh so you're moaning about people getting tax credits top ups now! When we started our family we got no help what so ever from the benefits system but we put a lot in, and now that we get some tax credits as we have a lower income, it's wrong? So people who are legitimately entitled to help shouldn't be taking it?

The fact is, some people don't want to be in their thirties when they have babies. I'm sorry you can't get your head around low income workers having families, not really my problem. I'd suggest that you look why it bugs you so much. Not everyone can earn loads of money these days, there simply isn't the work for everyone!

I think you've misinterpreted my post, I haven't mentioned tax credits at all. I have no issue with low income workers, as long as someone can afford to pay for their lifestyle they can crack on.
I accept that people have different values and expectations from life and that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I really don't think there is any need to become personal.

How exactly am I getting personal? Perhaps I have misinterpreted your post, bt with the way you started off on the thread saying that workers on minimum wage shouldn't be ttc, can you blame me?

I've just been flabbergasted by some of the things you have said R.E low income workers.

I think we should walk to asda and ask some of the over 40 workers why they are not on a lot of money with savings some people never get better paid jobs im afraid

Eh asda don't pay too badly yknow, my oh is a manger there (started as security) but they pay quite a good wage

Wasn't personally aimed at asda workers lmao just that there are older people who have to work minimum wage jobs even in there 40's because there is nothing else its not always this wonderful world where if you work you end up on good money sometimes there isn't promotions etc and you carry on working where you can even if the wage is bad

And people who do jobs like that deserve respect its people who decide its better ti remain in benefits and have other people support them that make life difficult do the rest of us

 

[netty]

really constructive with the asda quote?

many people have missed the point entirely

i for one think this is a healthy debate and interesting to see peoples opinions.

no need for anyone to take it personally, everyone is allowed an opinion.

All i see being debated is the logic in choosing to bring up a child knowing full well you can not provide.

Noone has been personally attacked?

I wasnt taking it personally again just making a point, people are saying wait until your on a good wage- what if that wage never comes?

,my good wage will never come lol? i will be what i am on for many years as thats the nature of my work. so i saved every penny i could i had copper jars, 5p jars, i saved literally every penny.

 

[tinytoes]

just because you earn min wage doesnt mean you cant save, my oh was redundant for the forst year we lived together and i earned 12k a year thats less than 1000 a month and my rent is 500. But i had a dream of a baby and i saved for it.

now 4 years on i have my security, and oh has a job.

I just had to wait for it thats all.

and i a,m glad i did, i didt go out, i didnt have new things, i didnt have anything but now i will have eveyrthing for my baby when it comes.

Exactly ! If you didn't have money for a car for example you wouldn't go and buy one would you ? You would save for it .