Why would you NOT breastfeed?

[fran_23]

Fran completely off topic, I want your drink it looks delicious!
What is it?!

Oh yeah it was yummy, its like a tropical pina colada from the hard rock cafe! i want one too!!

 

[kelsey]

this is a debate, not an arguement. If you don't want to take part then don't (I am saying that in a nice way) but I for one have found this a great thread and I think it will hopefully help everyone.

Completely agree with you beanie - i'm finding it interestiing and informatie. And as i have said before this in parts has been a very good debate and can continue to be.

 

[fran_23]

this is a debate, not an arguement. If you don't want to take part then don't (I am saying that in a nice way) but I for one have found this a great thread and I think it will hopefully help everyone.

Yeah i love debating i was just saying lets not get heated sometimes its easy to take things the wrong way in written text without intonation etc, I for one read things and fly off on one only to re-read and realise what was meant..thats all! dont stop debating its the spice of life

 

[Jen & Her Men]

I don't have time right now but I don't think my post was at all judgmental or sweeping. I thought long and hard about it in fact. My opinion, Jen, is that I feel a week is not long enough to give BFing a go. That's MY opinion and I thought that's what we were doing here? Voicing opinions.

Sorry Debbie I didnt mean to offend you... I spent 2/3rds of the post trying to emphasise how much i respect you and your achievements with breast feeding.

Of course you are allowed your opinion, everyone is entitled to an opinion about everything and allowed to voice that opinion. All I am saying is that people cant expect to voice certain opinions and to agree with certain opinions like the ones you posted re "giving baby best start" and thinking that giving up BF at 1 week is too soon and THEN try and say that they dont look down on FF's when clearly those sort of statements and opinions completely contradict that.

If people do look down on FF's then whatever - thats your opinion and i aint gonna lose sleep over it cos i know my little lad is big strong healthy and happy BUT it just makes me feel a bit when people pretend that they dont judge ff's when clearly they do.

Again, Im not singling you out and Im sorry if i caused offence - i have the upmost respect for you and think your little lad is gorgeous.

 

[daftscotslass]

With regards to the support thing, I think so much more needs to be done about this. I think it's fantastic that people are training as peer supporters but why is there so little support from the government and hospitals that are promoting breastfeeding in the first place? I'm bringing it up again because I just read a comment on the Netmums maternity survey forum about the hospital I was in and it honestly gave me chills.

After my daughter was born she was immediately forced on my breast and all i remember is the midwife basically 'milking' me forcing my daughter to feed. My daughter was 14 days overdue and had opened her bowels whilst inside me. She was coughing up lots of discharge and still they insisted she fed. When we eventually moved up on the ward they were concerned that i hadn't established breast feeding. My daughter had great difficulty latching on and all i wanted to do was go home with her to my family.

another one

I was trying to breastfeed and there was no continuity of care or advice. It was conflicting advice on many occassions with some staff unware I had had a section telling me off for not sitting up! My baby was re-admitted the day after we were discharged for "observation" unnecessarily causing distress to me and her. It was a heatwave and there was no airconditioning, she was overheating and they gave her fluid intravenously insetad of allowing me to feed her in a cooler calmer environment. I did not feel confident or strong enough to challenge staff but later felt this contributed to a shorter time breast feeding than I planned (11 weeks) as I became stressed about her weight gain which in turn didn't help my milk production.

I think it's amazing the second one lasted 11 weeks. This is a hospital that has signed up to UNICEF's baby friendly initiative? It's disgraceful and I would think it perfectly understandable if both of these people had been put off breastfeeding for life.

 

[loz]

I have joined in quite late but . . . . I was lucky as breastfeeding happened very easily for Emms and I although the 1st week I got mastitis and my nipples were bleeding But we got through it and she has always been quite natural about getting on with it although we have had our moments at times.

I think most people give it a go before giving up, most new mummies feel fairly obligated to try.

I BF exclusively for 4 1/2 months then added in some formula and then when I went back to work Emms has formula at the childminders and I BF at home. My plan is to BF in the day until December, then follow the same pattern as at the childminder e.g. bottles in the day, BF 1st thing in the morning and then at night. After Christmas to stop BF as I think I will need to get my body back and we will be considering TTC next year and I think my bod will need some time out!!!

I know people who tried BF for weeks and it didnt work out and felt really guilty about it, but TBH if we had struggled, I would have formula fed. I think it is so scary having a baby and so worrying if you think the bab isnt getting enough to eat, that you have to do what you feel is right.

I have said before on this forum that you can feel so guilty about everything in motherhood e.g. BF, baby sleeping in your room until 6 months, not weaning until 6 months, going back to work etc etc that you actually dont enjoy life. Stuff all these rules and regulations sometimes!!!

 

[dannii87]

Squig, I think your post is fantastic! I totally agree. We need to be much more informed so we have better groundworks to base our choices on. I didn't know most of that

It really gets to me that there aren't more parentcraft classes around for parenting. Ones that teach you while you're pregnant about baby first aid, room temperatures, how to bath your baby, feeding, slings, nappies, sleeping, what to expect in the first few weeks etc. AS WELL as labour. Labour is only the starting block to many other issues that may occur! If we had more confidence in other areas of parenting & labour, I think a lot would feel better with their choice of feeding too. I speak from my own (little) experience. I might be wrong though.

Do you see how I listed up there and how feeding slotted in so discreetly? Interesting

I have always been pro-choice when it comes to HOW we feed our LOs. I've never had a strong opinion on it as I can completely understand both sides. I'm no pro-bottle nor pro-breast.

I personally am very proud of myself for ATTEMPTING to BF initially, but what I have realised lately is that I am NOT proud of my stubborness and perserverence during the 5.5 weeks that I tried to breastfeed. I do not see that as an achievement (in my case only!) for many reasons.

I absolutely love seeing tickers that say "I've been breastfeeding for X amount of weeks/months" etc, I think it's so lovely and I also think it's so beautiful, a Mother feeding her baby. It's such a lovely picture of bonding. I also love to hear that a BFer who initially had problems have come through it and are now successfully BFing. I will ALWAYS fully support them - but not when it's taken to extremes.

I have been thinking lately though, if the lovely ladies who supported me whilst breastfeeding could have watched me & Evie for a 24 hour slot during my struggle, how many of you would have still said "well done" and to "keep perservering" after what you'd have seen? xx

 

[Jen & Her Men]

Back to the debate.. lol

I have been thinking looooads about this and what everyone has said....I am deffo still pro breast feeding and will be trying again with Pumpkin...

BUT I have come to the conclusion that i think sometimes as mummies we can lose a bit of perspective cos we try soooo damn hard to do the right things by our children that we sometimes may lose sight of whats important?

Just to put that into context...Breast is deffo best...BUT the reason that we have these debates is that we are lucky enough to have a CHOICE and the reason we have that choice is because formula milk does a bloody good job of mimicking breast milk and giving our LO's the nutrients needed to be healthy and happy...

Put it another way...if it was a more obvious destinction between f and b - such as ff babies life expectancy dramatically reduced, illnesses much more pronounced, stand 2 kids together and can quite clearly tell the difference between a bf and ff baby..then i think a lot more women WOULD battle through all the crapness of bf in the early stages to ensure their child was given that fundementally different quality of life.

HOWEVER that isnt the case...

So for me, when I look at BF and FF, I take into consideration all the other elements of motherhood and what i want to provide my children - emotional stability, safety, social interaction, education, etc etc etc. IF I feel that BF complements these areas or doesnt intrude on them in a massive way then i continue to BF....IF however (as in my case) I feel that by continuing to BF all the other areas are affected detrimentally, and that the gulf between where i want to be in those areas and where i am, is greater than the difference in quality of BF v FF....then I switch to Formula....

Does that make sense?!

Some people quite clearly feel that giving breast milk is much more important to them than the other factors and battle through regardless, I have even seen threads about babies losing weight cos they arnt feeding etc but the mum keeps battling on with bf...I guess thats their decision and not for me to judge. But other mummies feel that too much other stuff is being lost from their life and from the life of their baby by continuing to breast feed and therefore switch to formula and that works for them..I.

Its about CHOICE and the balance that we want in our lives. we should be thankful we have that choice, rather than judging others who dont make the same choices as us and have a different set of goals and balance. And we should also count ourselves very lucky that we actually have that choice in the first place.

 

[dannii87]

I don't have time right now but I don't think my post was at all judgmental or sweeping. I thought long and hard about it in fact. My opinion, Jen, is that I feel a week is not long enough to give BFing a go. That's MY opinion and I thought that's what we were doing here? Voicing opinions.

Sorry Debbie I didnt mean to offend you... I spent 2/3rds of the post trying to emphasise how much i respect you and your achievements with breast feeding.

That's exactly what stood out whilst reading both your posts Jen showing her utmost respect for you.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in your replies you sound very defensive, no need x

 

[beanie]

All I am saying is that people cant expect to voice certain opinions and to agree with certain opinions like the ones you posted re "giving baby best start" and thinking that giving up BF at 1 week is too soon and THEN try and say that they dont look down on FF's when clearly those sort of statements and opinions completely contradict that.

BUT it just makes me feel a bit when people pretend that they dont judge ff's when clearly they do.

I do have to say that comments like that is part of the reason a few breastfeeding mums feel that they can't say things. If I say something that upsets someone I would appreciate it if they let me know, in a nice way I read things like that (and again sorry for singling out one person but it would take me ages to go through every feeding thread in this forum) and sit there thinking "have I said something bad?".

I genuinely don't look down on FF mums, most of my friends ff and I think they are amazing mums. Like I said ages ago, I am pro breastfeeding ,this does not make me anti formula feeding.

 

[kelsey]

I'm not gonna spend ages writing and reading this before i post it as it will get taken howeer it will regardless.

I have a few points. I agree with what debbie says, and I can see where she's coming from.

Of course you are allowed your opinion, everyone is entitled to an opinion about everything and allowed to voice that opinion. All I am saying is that people cant expect to voice certain opinions and to agree with certain opinions like the ones you posted re "giving baby best start" and thinking that giving up BF at 1 week is too soon and THEN try and say that they dont look down on FF's when clearly those sort of statements and opinions completely contradict that.

Jen, in my opinion they don't contradict. I happen to agree with debs on this but it doesn't mean i look down at ff's. I have four children all of which I have had different experiences of bf AND ff. I stopped bf my first at 2 weeks, I had no support off hv/midwife or then partner. I still think i gave up too soon but hey ho thats life. It doesnt mean i think that others that switch to ff for any reason are any different.

 

[dannii87]

Debbie: Another thing, I just wanted to add that I think the reason some Mums give up after a week is because they are not well enough informed that all babies need in the first 24 hours is 5ml of colostrum.

I had NO idea but was sooooo scared that something was wrong with Miss Evie! I didn't know why she wouldn't feed? Was it me? Where was my milk? Why wasn't I leaking? If I had been allowed home within a few hours like most women who have normal births, Evie would have been on formula from that evening. I can almost guarantee it.

How was I to know!? I only knew because ONE midwife took the time to explain it to me.

x

 

[Jen & Her Men]

All I am saying is that people cant expect to voice certain opinions and to agree with certain opinions like the ones you posted re "giving baby best start" and thinking that giving up BF at 1 week is too soon and THEN try and say that they dont look down on FF's when clearly those sort of statements and opinions completely contradict that.

BUT it just makes me feel a bit when people pretend that they dont judge ff's when clearly they do.

I do have to say that comments like that is part of the reason a few breastfeeding mums feel that they can't say things. If I say something that upsets someone I would appreciate it if they let me know, in a nice way I read things like that (and again sorry for singling out one person but it would take me ages to go through every feeding thread in this forum) and sit there thinking "have I said something bad?".

I genuinely don't look down on FF mums, most of my friends ff and I think they are amazing mums. Like I said ages ago, I am pro breastfeeding ,this does not make me anti formula feeding.

Im sorry you feel like that Beanie,...especially as in pretty much every single post i have put i have talked about how important it is to celebrate BF and talked about how proud i am of forum members who have BF and how i have been inspired to BF because of these members and because of this forum...

My point about feeling looked down upon sometimes due to certain statements...well I do!! I dont think the way i addressed it in this thread was particularly aggressive or anything - i was just trying to explain the reason why i felt the way I do. Im not saying im right im just saying how i feel when i read stuff like that....

I think there is a huge difference between celebrating an achievement and making others feel bad for not having achieved it themselves....saying "woo hoo get me I over came adversity and have BF for six months" is very different to saying "I think that people who only BF have given up too soon" etc etc...I think if the distinction is made then there is no need for anyone to feel like crap.. Thats all im trying to say.

 

[suzy100]

Just wanted to add that i formula fed my 1st, now 15 years and also my little Maisy, now 16mths.
For no particular reason, just wanted to. Nothing wrong with that, breast-feeding just didnt appeal to me.

Both my girls healthy

 

[kelsey]

Would like to add

I was sent a letter by a close friend, the first part is her experiences and the second part is a template that can be found the bf manifesto web site. You could use the letter as a template and add your own experiences at the top. If u feel failed by the system actions speak louder than words

Dear mp,


When my daughter was born, I took the decision to breast feed her. We are all told from the onset of our pregnancies that “breast is best” and I wanted to give my child the best as all parents do. The reality of breastfeeding, however, isn’t what it is made out to be and I, like many other first time mothers, struggled with the practicalities. I sought help from those medical professionals who had been eager to enforce breastfeeding but found the help sorely lacking. I nearly gave up… and I have since met other mothers who have given up because they found no source of help. It was one of the most distressing times of my life when I should have been enjoying my beautiful daughter’s first weeks. Many other women I have met have become severely depressed over their inability to get to grips with breastfeeding and have been looked down on by the medical profession. Yet had those same medical professionals helped at the beginning, it would have been unlikely these mothers would have given up in the first place.

Now my child and I have grasped the concepts of breastfeeding, I realise what a wonderful experience it is and it angers me that many mothers never get to experience this, because the medical profession are so inadequately prepared to help at the time of birth.

It is for this reason I am writing to you to ask that there be more on hand support and help for breastfeeding mothers at the time of birth and onwards at our local hospital, so as to keep more mothers breastfeeding. I believe the campaign for breastfeeding and making known breast is best is far more important than the no smoking campaign and if as much funding was put behind breast is best campaign the results would be recognisable.


The Breastfeeding Manifesto is supported by a Coalition of 40 organisations including UNICEF, Save the Children, the National Childbirth Trust, Best Beginnings, the 5 Royal Colleges, Friends of the Earth and The National Obesity Forum.

In the UK 9 out of 10 women who had stopped breastfeeding by six weeks wished they could have breastfed for longer. That means that every year approximately 300,000 women stopped breastfeeding before they wished to. There are also huge health inequalities around breastfeeding with mothers from lower socio-economic groups being significantly less likely to initiate and sustain breastfeeding.

The Breastfeeding Manifesto outlines seven objectives that, if implemented, could result in a dramatic uplift in the number of UK mothers who are able to make fully informed choices about how to feed their babies and receive proper support.

As far as I am aware you have not, as yet, added your support to the Breastfeeding Manifesto. I am writing to ask to add your support to the list of over 250 MPs who support the Breastfeeding Manifesto.

Please add your name by emailing Joan Reid: [email protected].

I therefore urge you again to add you support. Together, with your fellow parliamentarians you can make a real and lasting difference, for future generations.

I look forward to hearing from you with your thoughts and feedback about the Manifesto and to learning whether you intend to add your support to it.

Yours sincerely,

 

[fran_23]

All I am saying is that people cant expect to voice certain opinions and to agree with certain opinions like the ones you posted re "giving baby best start" and thinking that giving up BF at 1 week is too soon and THEN try and say that they dont look down on FF's when clearly those sort of statements and opinions completely contradict that.

BUT it just makes me feel a bit when people pretend that they dont judge ff's when clearly they do.

I do have to say that comments like that is part of the reason a few breastfeeding mums feel that they can't say things. If I say something that upsets someone I would appreciate it if they let me know, in a nice way I read things like that (and again sorry for singling out one person but it would take me ages to go through every feeding thread in this forum) and sit there thinking "have I said something bad?".

I genuinely don't look down on FF mums, most of my friends ff and I think they are amazing mums. Like I said ages ago, I am pro breastfeeding ,this does not make me anti formula feeding.

Oh yeah sorry again to single someone out but Beanie you obviously have the right attitude because you Breastfeed and you have supported girls having trouble and given great advice re the feeding cafes, support they can get and stuff but i don't think i have ever thought you are anti FF or that you put it down..if i haven't felt it from you then why have i from others? because the judgements are there we don't imagine them. It would be nice if everyone had your attitude!

 

[Jen & Her Men]

[quote="Jen&James":3i14fv7y] All I am saying is that people cant expect to voice certain opinions and to agree with certain opinions like the ones you posted re "giving baby best start" and thinking that giving up BF at 1 week is too soon and THEN try and say that they dont look down on FF's when clearly those sort of statements and opinions completely contradict that.

BUT it just makes me feel a bit when people pretend that they dont judge ff's when clearly they do.

I do have to say that comments like that is part of the reason a few breastfeeding mums feel that they can't say things. If I say something that upsets someone I would appreciate it if they let me know, in a nice way I read things like that (and again sorry for singling out one person but it would take me ages to go through every feeding thread in this forum) and sit there thinking "have I said something bad?".

I genuinely don't look down on FF mums, most of my friends ff and I think they are amazing mums. Like I said ages ago, I am pro breastfeeding ,this does not make me anti formula feeding.

Oh yeah sorry again to single someone out but Beanie you obviously have the right attitude because you Breastfeed and you have supported girls having trouble and given great advice re the feeding cafes, support they can get and stuff but i don't think i have ever thought you are anti FF or that you put it down..if i haven't felt it from you then why have i from others? because the judgements are there we don't imagine them. It would be nice if everyone had your attitude![/quote:3i14fv7y]
well said Fran. Agree entirely.

 

[beanie]

aww thanks, god I am soppy as I am now welling up. It would be hypocritical of me to look down on them, I used formula with Seren and I used to regret it - I never felt I was a good enough mum (though my PND had a massive part to play in that) and it was the attitude from medical professionals that caused that "you should just formula feed", "if you are finding it that stressful just stop as you are upsetting yourself and your baby" when I was struggling to boob feed. That's why I really want to help other mums.but now I see that I did what I had to to get me through those early weeks and I don't regret it at all. My experience with both girls shows me that breastfeeding isn't easy even with support - and breastfeeding when feeling ill, against pressure from family and health workers etc is even tougher.

 

[monster_munch]

Completely random now, but i just wanted to share something with you all. When i was pregnant with my daughter i went to an anti natal class and the midwife running it went around the table and asked everyone how they intended to feed their babies. It was split almost 50-50 but the intended breast feeders were all the 'mature, marrieds' and the bottle feeders were the chavs. I distinctly remember one lass, who always had a fag outside first, saying she was looking forward to getting pissed after the birth..

 

[KJ]

I replied to this thread earlier this morning and my reply has disappeared. Can any of the mods please tell me where it went, and why?