Closed - old IVF thread

[mrspc]

So sorry Tink, am joining the other girls in hoping for a shy one

I know what you mean about the lifestyle stuff - OH finds this particularly hard to take as he is fit as a butcher's dog and in his job he sees drug addicts, alcoholics, the morbidly obese and various pond life fathering children that they don't want. I don't really know what to say to him about that cos it is so unfair but the fact is we will all feel better having tried everything we can and the unfairness is pretty irrelevant, I suppose.


Love and luck to all of you IVF girls.
(I'm trying to keep up with all the journeys on this thread but it's hard because it moves quickly and I don't understand most of it!)

xxx

 

[JJ Mum]

Tinks - Have everything crossed for you for tomorows OTD XX

GG - good luck with your DR scan tomorow - Lou that explanation was really useful as I thought it was the drug that made you bleed ! so that makes sense really now...
Rea - Good luck for first stimming - can't believe how fast both your and GG's DR's have gone..
MrsPC - I Found it all very baffling and scary before I started, andd as you pass each of the milestones, you then know what your doing and it's really fine. I think the hard bit is in your head - I over thnk everything..! sure we all do when it's so inportant.
Scotch - not long now till 1st August , 8 more sleeps till your babies are coming home!
Lou - how long are you staying in belgium, at what stage in the process do you go? for EC and ET only?

 

[greekgirl84]

Thanks that makes more sense I thought she said it would make me bleed so was panicking.
Good luck ladies ...

 

[LouiseB]

Oh I thought Tinkers OTD was today?

Is yours on Thurs JJ?

I'll be going to Belgium on the 20th August for my down regulation scan to make sure my lining is thin and ovaries quiet and then I'll come back home to wait for a bleed and start stims

Then I be going back to Belgium on the 31st August which should be in time for a stim day 7 scan, if everything happens when it should

In mainly hinges on when my bleed comes on Microgynon and most people seem to say 3-4 days afterwards xx

 

[LouiseB]

Any news Tinker? xx

 

[Tinkerbell3]

Just as you'd expect, no different I couldn't stop looking at it for about half an hour just hoping and praying it would change and a 2nd line appear.

Rang the clinic and quite disapointed with how they handled the call, the nurse said 'so, it's positive?' yes, dumbass I sound this miserable because it's positive

Follow up booked for August 20th, and she didn't even tell me anything else. Of course, I know it's obvious to now stop Cyclogest but I would have thought she would have at least mentioned it.

 

[ScotchEgg]

That's horrid. I found it hard enough emailing a negative result but having that conversation must have been devastating.

My fact sheet says to stop cyclogest on otd if negative result.

 

[Tinkerbell3]

Gosh Tinker, I feel a bit dumb because I know you've mentioned it a few times but it has only just clicked that you actually have cystic fibrosis.

I'm so used to viewing things just as hurdles, but that's a horrible thing that you have to live with.

Do you suffer very badly with it? How do you cope on a day to day basis with it?

I think that you are correct that they wouldn't do a share with your eggs

You do get a free review consultation on the Nhs and as for the semen analysis, I don't think they do one during an IVF cycle. They didnt for me anyway. I think they just focus on picking out the best they can see rather that counting them up etc

Rea - don't you have a scan on Wednesday? I must have got mixed up - have a lovely time. EDIT - ah yes, starting stims on Wed! I hope it goes well xx

Greek - the buserelin shouldn't make you bleed, the ovulation before taking buserelin will make you bleed. The buserelin should just stop your post AF hormones from kicking off another natural cycle so it doesn't mean that it isn't working They like you to bleed because it makes it more clear cut but like Scotch said it doesn't mean you won't still progress as expected xx

I know this may sound crazy but part of me is grateful to have it, it's made me strong minded (you might not think it at the mo, but give it a couple of days ) and really has really made me realise in life there is always someone worse off, I've seen friends at hospital suffer so much more.

I'm very grateful and lucky to be ok with it, I'm 28 and still doing really well. My chest and everything else is good enough that my consultant gave me the go ahead for TTC and said i shouldnt suffer too badly with a pregnancy, even though I don't seem to be very good at this TTC thing

Now I'm not very good at understanding all this semen analysis stuff but if his count was 3 million per ml for the test and doesn't the average man have 4mls per ejaculate that means the full count was around 12million that's a HUGE differenece from the 61 a couple of weeks ago. Or have I got it totally wrong have they do it?

 

[LouiseB]

I'm really sorry about the BFN

I think I understand about being strong minded though and I really hope you can just bounce back

I'm glad that the cystic fibrosis is manageable for you. It was stupid of me because I was just thinking about why wouldnt they do you an egg share because of CF and then I was like "omg! CF!"

I'm really sorry about how the clinic responded to you. Ignorant cows. I phoned up when I got my BFN because I'd started bleeding about 3 days before OTD and they just immediately commiserated me but didn't even try to talk me out of my situation which I was a little surprised at. There was no "maybe it's implantation bleeding" or anything. Around here they always talk about it so I thought it was an actual possibility. They were right of course.

You're actually quite lucky with the review appointment date though, I had to wait 2 months for mine

As for the sperm results, you'd have to know how many ml your hubby did produce. Plus take into consideration the motility and morphology and things.

I can tell you how I work it out, but I'm no Maths whizz so might be wrong

Volume (ml) x Concentration (MIL/ml) = X million sperm cells in sample

(X / 100) x % progressive = Y sperm cells in sample that are progressive

(Y / 100) x % normal morphology = Z sperm cells in sample with progressive + morphology

If you do that for a minimally normal man it'd be:
6 x 20,000,000 = 120,000,000
/100 x 50 = 60,000,000
/100 x 4 = 2,400,000 normal sperm cells per sample

You need a handful for ICSI and 100000 per egg for IVF, so in your case 1,200,000 with you having 12 eggs.

If that makes sense

 

[greekgirl84]

Sorry for your bfn! And sorry the clinic were not very sympathetic. I suppose we are all just a number to them.

Wow those are some calculations , u really are the one to come to for any ivf concerns

 

[Tinkerbell3]

Really, 2 months is terrible and there I was feeling like a month is ages away.

Ok, that's a lot of Maths haha. I do have the motility and morphology % from last time but not sure if it would be different for the latest sample. As he had 28 million post was for the ICSI does that mean that's how many 'normal' sperm he has and would also be able to be used for IUI or do they take even more out?
I know you're not a Dr but on here you're as good as

 

[LouiseB]

If they told you he had 28 million, that would be for all of them including the dud ones.

So, the amount of good ones would be much lower. Yes both the motility and morphology could be very different.

My hubby used to get about 3 MIL/ml and 10% progressive and then one time he had 3 MIL/ml and about 50% progressive (not sure i believe it tbh) and then another time he had 10 MIL/ml and 10% progressive - so they just completely flipped around. It was still ICSI for us each time.

I would honestly give it a few months of detox and then test it again and who knows, maybe IUI could be an option.

If they have improved significantly with little changes, it does imply that lifestyle plays a significant factor in the poor quality xx

 

[Tinkerbell3]

Well they said 61million count then 28million post wash to be able to use for ICSI, so where did the other 33million go? Were they just completely dead? what if they used dud ones and that's what we had embryo growing problems? Sorry I'm just thinking out loud here and wracking by brain with what if's and why's.

Thank you, will see what else I can get him to change in his diet etc and ask for another test done privately. I was annoyed they only tested once anyway espcially as he missed the pot for the first 'lot' and probably only got about half his sample collected

 

[blondy13]

Hi tinkerbell- sorry again that it's a bfn for you. How are you both feeling other than gutted?
I'm sending big hugs your way, and glad you dont have to wait too long for a follow up xxx

 

[LouiseB]

Sperm washing should simply concentrate the ones that are moving the best, although 61 million is a promising figure - how many ml did he have? What was his progressive and morphology from his other analysis'?

When my hubby had sperm washing he started with 4.4% fast and 4.9% sluggish and ended up with 7.5% fast and 1.5% sluggish but he also lost half the concentration however that isn't important for ICSI.

I can understand you trying to pick it all apart, I actually really like your attitude Anything I can do to help, just ask away.

 

[JJ Mum]

Tinkerbell - I'm sorry it was still bfn, life is just not fair sometimes - but it doesn't mean it will aways be unfair (you know what I mean).

What a insensitive lady on the phone when you called them to update, you would think being in this line of work, they would be really sensitive about peoples feelings.

I was well confused with Lous amazing sperm maths lesson!! You know whats funny is on paper my OH had really good swimmers, my AMH was low at 5.3 , but we got 12 eggs too like you, but you had a great fert rate! and hey with my std ivf , only 6 little buggers fertilized!! So I think your ICSI process seems to produce higher rates of fert , I guess because they get the really good fellas right in there when needed, rather than a cross section, including wonky sperm that just happen to bump into my eggs and then no fert happens and bang thats an egg unavailable for a good sperm.. This is the step that went wrong for me in my head, and I will asking about this in detail at my review.

Are there any proven risks with isci then that is can cause slower growth? I wouldn't have thought they would do it if it didn't bring everyone to a equal playing field if you know what I mean Tinks.

Glad your review is soon, prob better to get it done with and try to have a plan for your next steps or at least try to find out if they can tell what went wrong at all. It may be one of those cycles where it just has no explanation, but luck of the draw, but I think that is harder to take, but again still positive in that there are always two sides to a lucky coin , and 50/50 to flip your way next time hun X

 

[blondy13]

JJ- are you testing soon? Xxx

 

[JJ Mum]

JJ- are you testing soon? Xxx

Yes unfortunately I am Blondy...............Thanks for asking.

I say that as I feel that if I didn't test and waited another week it would extend my 2WW and maybee my chances, but my time has near run out , ha ha

No it's no good I have to do the official test in 2 days - its a well dodgy looking one they gave me, it has a pot for your pee, a little plastic pipette/dropper to take just 3-4 drops and pop into a hole in the test that looks like a tray! It says use 3-4 drops, (like who in their right mind would then ever use just 3 drops!!!ha ).

Some heavily rubmbly AF feelings last night, ( I stick my progesterone pessarie in and lay on sofa for at least 30 mins to let it soak in, then go on laptop while there). In fact im there again now.... (Trouble is I am 14 days post ov (egg collect) today! also 9dp5dt today.

So will test with FMU fri 27th am and then ring clinic and then post quickly for you guys in suspense and then pack car and drive to cornwall for a well needed break from the process...and a cornish pasty....

How are you feeling blondy? has it sunk in yet, now your 4 weeks 5 days.....

 

[LouiseB]

Oh JJ, I thought tomorrow was 15dpo - aren't you doing it then?

Yes, there are increased risks with ICSI. Firstly, stabbing the egg with a needle can cause damage and this is much more likely with older women. Then the is a slightly increased risk of the babies suffering deformities and inherited conditions. Also there is a risk of lower quality embryos because it is no longer survival of the fittest but random selection.

That said, you could end up with what you hope - more fertilisation and similar quality eggs.

If you want improved quality then I'd look into advanced selection techniques like IMSI and/or PICSI and you can have you sperm graded like what I did.

Just for you to think about

So do you think that you will go ahead with another cycle?

I really hope that the rumblings are not AF xx

 

[blondy13]

Oh JJ are you not going to be tempted to test a day early tomorrow?
Your official test sounds a bit random - do you have any proper ones to back it up with in case there's any doubt?
I have a great feeling for you - AF type rumblings can be a great sign, especially if you're still on progesterone.
I will be stalking you!!! Cornwall sounds fab - hope the weather stays nice for you!!
Thank you for asking after me - it has definitely sunk in now, my boobs hurt and have grown already, and I am soooo hungry constantly!! I'm just scared its twins or triplets making me eat all this food!!! Scan is 9th Aug so 2 weeks tomorrow!
How is everyone else doing?