**The No Sleep Club**

[emilia]

I'm going to stop breastfeeding Oscar at night. It will be a hellish time, but I can see no way out! He wakes so often & I'm completely zonked. I have to toughen up a bit I think ... I'm finding things quite hard at the moment, hence I'm hardly on here these days.

Oscar is also teething and I can see that he really is having a shocking time with it. He's also just getting over a wee cold.

Urchin, do remind me what your magic was with Brody! Share your secrets!!
Hugs to Lucy & Shona!!

I'm dreaming of having 5 minutes to myself!!!!

Emilia xx

 

[Xena]

I just stumbled on this online and I thought I'd post it incase it would be of use to anybody:

http://www.pregnancystore.com/zaky.htm

 

[Urchin]

Urchin, do remind me what your magic was with Brody! Share your secrets!!

This taken from the pom I sent lucy:

Formula last feed at night (11pmish)......didn't work AT ALL.

putting him down awake This did lead to some great improvement, and I managed it without controlled crying. I got strict with a bath/bottle/bed routine, so when I put him in his cot he was absolutley KNACKERED. He old bedtime was more like when I wanted to go to bed. Now, he has 1/2 a bottle between 7/8, which he faffs about with abit. Then he has a bath at 8pm, the rest of the bottle, and is carried up and put into bed awake. He doesn't even cry now, I put him into bed and he rolls over and goes to sleep! At first he would cry a little, but I would stay in the room, or go straight back in, the longest he was left to cry would be about 8 minutes. I knew he had to learn to go to sleep in his own bed if I was to get any improvement. My problem was I also wanted him to have a full tummy, and he went through a phase of being sick when he cried Sad I think he was too full.

Formula in the first night feed...this did seem to work almost straight away. He started only waking at 4am, had a full 8oz, then slept till 7ish! I was amazed he had 8 oz, there was no way he was getting that quantity from boob.
However...I do think that the reason he slept MUCH better after I started this was because I wasn't lifting him uop and bringing him into my bed. He would lie in his cot and I would give him the bottle and leave. Before he would be getting boob and a big cuddle to sleep in my bed.

It sounds like a lot of work, but really, the whole thing has been so easy, and Brody took to it really well, it's been very straightforward, and, unbelievably, he has slept through EVERY NIGHT since he first did it!

On the minus side, I did want to keep a bit of BF going in the day, but my milk has dried up now, I haven't fed for about a week. If you do want to carry on BF I would consider expressing some feeds to keep your supply going.

 

[hayley_17]

Well i thought i would post on here because for weeks now i have had very little sleep.

When Owen was 6 weeks old i put him in his cot, in his own room. The HV said to try him, see how he settled. The first night he had his bath, last feed and i put him down half awake. He cried about 30 mins and then he slept for about 6 hours! Second night he only cried about 5 mins and slept the same. He slept like that every night till he was nearly 9 weeks. He was in hospital over the weekend and then had his jabs 4 days after he got out.

Since then he has not slept at all. I'm so tired its unreal! He will only fall asleep being rocked in my arms during the day & night. During the day the longest he will sleep is 1 hour, and will only sleep if im holding him so i can never get anytihng done. I know he is still very young but im going crazy!! During the night he will sleep from about 8 till 2. Between 2 & 4 he will not go back down in his cot. No matter what i do he wont. He'll sleep little bits if im holding him but screams in his cot. I try him with a bottle but he's not interested and just cries. I even tried him with water, but he wasnt interested with that either. I check to see if he's too warm, i even chnange his nappy incase he's uncomfortable. But nothing works

He was waking at 12 every night but now i give him a dream feed at around 11 so he sleeps a bit longer. I've even let him sleep in with me a couple of times which wont help him sleep better on his own i know. I just get so tired i don't know what to do. I don't sleep properly when he's in with me so it's not really much better anyway.

Here is his routine from yesterday, starting with his first feed.
5:30am- Fed & goes back to sleep with me
7am- Washed & dressed, wants to play, sleeps 4 about 30 mins
10am- Fed & back down to sleep after he's been rocked by me until he's fast asleep and then put him down. (He always sleeps a long time after this feed).
2pm- Fed & wants to play. Had little cat naps, was sick alot.
6:30pm- Bath & Last feed. At this feed he can scream for anything up to an hour. He gets his wind up but is sick alot. Eventually goes to sleep after being rocked in my arms, fell asleep at about 8pm.
11pm- dream feed
2am- 4am- Was awake & wouldnt go back to sleep. Kept crying

What makes his sleep worse is that he is sick quite a lot during the day & sometimes at night. He can be sick from one feed to the next. The HV said it's just because he is having more milk but i disagree. I think it is more, he is sick alot, he always has been really. Whenever he is laid down on his back he is sick, he gets his wind up quite well but it doesnt seem to make a difference. Then he cant sleep cuz he keeps being sick. I just don't know what to do.

I have a few questions. The HV said to start putting him down awake, even if he cries and just checking on him every 5 mins. His cot is now next to my bed because a HV i saw (not my normal one) said he was too young to be in on his own?? So now he can see me and i don't know if that makes him worse. Also, I have a friend staying from tuesday to friday next week. I've been feeling down lately so she is coming to cheer me up. His routine will change becuase we will be out doing things with him. And hes got his 2nd jabs on 12th October, so should i wait untill after all these things untill i start putting him down awake? The HV said i should do it during the day too, would you advise that??

Oh and another couple of questions (sorry about all the questions!!), since he was little he has always slept in with me when hes woke at about 5am. Should i stop this when i put him down awake?? Also, becuase he is sick alot i was thinking of changing his milk, if i do this will i have to wait until he has gotten used 2 it to start this??

Thanks in advance for all the help...

Hayley xxx

 

[Lindsay]

Hayley I can sympathise with you hun. I am having the same problems with Jacob. I seem to have a baby who doesn't need a lot of sleep, but his mummy does!! I am too soft to leave him crying in his cot so I can't put him down awake. I am breastfeeding Jacob and feel like a human cow he seems to be on all the time. Jacob tends to fall asleep on me and if I am lucky I can transport him to his cot and put him down without waking him up, although this is generally not the case as soon as his head touches the mattress his eyes will ping open! I have stopped stressing about it now and just bring hbim back downstairs with me until he starts showing signs of tiredness which is usually about 11pm last night it was midnight he would then sleep for about 4/5 hours, wake for a quick top up feed anbd be back down asleep after about 30mins, not the past 2 nights he has woken up after 3 / 4 hours and then stayed awake for another 2 hours. I have to rock him back to sleep in my arms and weighing 16lbs 5 it's hard work, my back aches like mad! I have been putting him in bed with me and DH when he wakes at 5/6am as he will then go back down for a couple more hours which I know is not ideal but I can't survive on lack of sleep. My concern is that I am going back to work in 2 months and I can't see it is going to get better for me, luckily DH works shifts and so can help me out. I feel so tired and drained but Jacob is such a happy baby that I keep doing what I have been doing as I don't like to see him upset.

Xxx

 

[prickleyfairy]

I also sympathise with you both i have had such a bad few nights with Mia....and am sooooo tired. She is now in her cot in her own room, and will not go to sleep before 11pm if i do try to put her down she opens her eyes and screams and i have to keep rocking her back to sleep untill she's warn out and eventually gives in and goes to sleep.

She will then sleep 3 or 4 hrs i will then feed her and then she starts to wake up every 1 and a half hrs, after and then from about 6am she's wide awake and wants to play and wont go back to sleep. I don't think she's waking because she's hungry, i think she's teething....she screams and put 's her hand in her mouth, and will just not settle.

Am hoping it's a faze she's going though.......as i can't be doing this every night, my DH thinks maybe cos i'm slightly stressed and tired maybe my milk is'nt as good in the night and she's waking hungry-but i'm not sure-should i try her on formula for her last feed, could it make a difference??

Hope the sleep patterns get better for you Hayley and Lindsay, Sometimes you think your the only one awake at stupid o'clock in the morning, but t's nice to know i'm not the only one.

Hoping tonight will be a better night??

Amy xx

 

[prickleyfairy]

.....has anyone tried the controlled crying.....not sure if i could leave Mia to cry, does it work??

 

[Lindsay]

Hi prickley fairy I'm sorry you are having problems too. Jacob is in his cot in his own room too, I forgot to say that in my other post!! I think Jacob is starting teething, he is dribbling really bad and biting everything in site. He did suck his thumb which helped him soothe himself back to sleep but now he bites it. Jacob has had 2 hours sleep this afternoon, so I have done the dinner, washing and ironing when really perhaps I should have had a sleep. I haven't done controlled crying as such, when I was looking into it all the internet sites didn't recommend to do it until at least 6 months old. I have left him in his cot to cry and see if he goes off to sleep himself but he got really upset and started choking so I got him back out and haven't done it since. You hit the nail on the head though, I often think that I am the only one going through no sleep etc so it's nice to know I am not alone, but not that you are struggling too! My DH works 2 night shifts out of 6days and it seems that these are always the worse, not sure if it's just cos I am on my own. Fingers crossed we all have a better night tonight -0 I don't hold out much hope considering Jacob's long sleep this afternoon!

Xxx

 

[Urchin]

.....has anyone tried the controlled crying.....not sure if i could leave Mia to cry, does it work??

I personally don't agree with it. I think a baby can get scared and they aren't old enough to understand that you will be coming back.

With Brody, I started putting him down awake, and staying in the room, stroking his tummy. With the right timing, he'll go staight to sleep now.

I believe the bath/bottle/bed thing really helps too, if you do it every night and slowley walk upstairs with them and hold them for a minute in their room before you put them in bed, all these little clues tell them where they are going to end up so they are ready for it. Leaving them to cry for a minute or 2 is fine, but letting them cry themselves to sleep every night is unnecessary in my opinion.

 

[Urchin]

I have a few questions. The HV said to start putting him down awake, even if he cries and just checking on him every 5 mins. His cot is now next to my bed because a HV i saw (not my normal one) said he was too young to be in on his own??

That sounds OK, although I would say to stay with him at first, instead of just leaving him to cry. Brody was in our room for 6 months, we both enjoyed being close together

The HV said i should do it during the day too, would you advise that??

Yes, I put Brody down awake in the day too, it definitely helped.

Oh and another couple of questions (sorry about all the questions!!), since he was little he has always slept in with me when hes woke at about 5am. Should i stop this when i put him down awake?? Also, becuase he is sick alot i was thinking of changing his milk, if i do this will i have to wait until he has gotten used 2 it to start this??

I used to have Brody in with me yeah, it was nice
Recently though I've started leaving him to go back to sleep in his cot on his own as he's such a wriggler, when i take him into my bed he just crawls all over it.

Personally I would work on the putting down awake thing first, this is definitely a key when it comes to sleep. Babies have a 45 minute sleep cycle, they start in a light sleep, then have a deep sleep, then after 45 minutes they come back into a light sleep again. When they are in this light sleep, they like to be where they were when they went to sleep. This means if he fell asleep in your arms, if he goes into light sleep and realises he's not in your arms any more he will wake up and cry.

If he goes to sleep in a cot, when he goes into light sleep every 45 minutes, he'll know where he is, he'll feel secure, and he shouldn't wake up, he'll just start another sleep cycle.

Hope some of that helps.

Good luck

xxxx

 

[Lindsay]

Urchin I would love to be able to put Jacob in his cot awake, but it doesn't work. I have sat with him and stroked his tummy and sang lullabys to him for ages but he just ends up crying and getting himself really worked up until I get him out and cuddle him. I do understand that it is my wrong doing that is making it harder for me. Jacob has gone down to sleep now but in an hour I would guess he will be awake again until 11pm ish. It is getting really hard as I am soooo tired.

Xxx

 

[Urchin]

I do know exactly what you mean. For months I rocked Brody to sleep in his bouncy chair cos it was so easy, eventually though I knew I had to change. He's only been going down awake for about 2 months

 

[hayley_17]

Thanks alot urchin

Yeh i was thinking of keeping Owen in my room for a few more months, he has a gorgeous room of his own but i like knowing how close he is 2 me

When i put him down awake in the day he screams more than at night. I think maybe the light affects him?? I wanted to get a black out blind but i have a corner room and i have a huge double window across one wall & a little one on another wall (its a nightmare!) and i cant get blinds to fit?? Does the light affect Brody??

Today he hasnt been too well... cried loads and im not sure why, i think he may have had tummy ache. He's now asleep but hes just on the sofa, i felt like he wasnt right to put him bed and let him cry. Am i wrong?? I will defo do the putting down to sleep thing, i always wondered why, when he falls asleep in the day and im holding him, when he wakes hes happy!!

It all helped, thanks. I'm going to start him tomorrow, im prepared 4 a day with alot of screaming!!

I know what u mean though Lindsay, Owen is pretty much the same. He can scream 4 hours but im just going to have to do it. I can't have no sleep 4 the rest of my life!! lol im sooo tired!!

xxx

 

[Urchin]

How about putting him down for naps in his nursery? Have you got a cot in there ready for him? I have a black out blind for Brody.

I would maybe rock him until he's almost asleep, then try and pop him into bed like that, eyes half open kinda thing.

If he cries, leave him a few minutes, then go in, pick him up, settle him back down again then try popping him back down again.

Good luck!

xxxx

 

[Lindsay]

I'm the other way round, Jacob has got a black out blind but likes it a bit lighter. I always leave our bedroom light on until i know he is in a deep sleep otherwise when it's dark he wakes up last night he went down just after 8pm and woke up at 10pm and didn't go back down until midnight and them I had to put him in bed with us as every time he went in his cot he woke up and cried. He eventually slept from midnight till 6am. Things are going to have to change, I can't live life like a zombie anymore. Thanks for your advice.

Xxx

 

[prickleyfairy]

I had the worst night ever, Mia did'nt go down till 10pm she then woke again at 12.45, had a feed and then continued to wake every hr i wanted to just put her in our bed, but i've just got her into the habit of her sleeping in her own cot and i don't get any room if she's in bed with us and she tends to feed all night, so i just kept putting her back to sleep in her cot....it just seemed every time i closed my eyes she was awake again.

Then from 7 this morning she was wide awake screaming in her cot, i coul'dnt resettle her and she would'nt go back to sleep, so she came in with us then.

Hope this is just a faze, or if she is teething then i hope her teeth come though soon......i really need some kip, don't really know what to do? Got so mush housework to do too......just feel like everything is on top of me.

Amy xx

 

[Lindsay]

Hun I feel exactly the same, I know if I hadn't put Jacob in with me he would have been awake all night too. Dh thinks that we need to start weaning, but the HV don't think that he is ready for it yet and I want to breastfeed for as long as possible but it is so demanding. All I can say is thank goodness for makeup cos I look bloody awful without it these days!!

Xxx

 

[prickleyfairy]

How did you get on last night Lindsay?

We had a really good night compared to past nights......Mia went to bed at 10pm and woke at 4am!!!!!!!!! She then had a feed and went back till 6am, then woke again at 7.30am.....i'm still tired but really chuffed, hoping the same will happen tonight?

I know what you mean about the makeup.......i've got huge bags at the moment, and look really pale.......but it's so warm and sunny outside-but i just don't have the time.

Amy xx

 

[Lindsay]

Jacob slept from 8.30 - 10pm had a quick feed and went straight back down at 11pm then slept till 4am. He then stayed awake till 5.30am but then went back down till 9.15am!!! I had to look at the clock twice when I woke up!!! Jacob tends to fall asleep on me before going down, I am going to blow on his face as advised by the hv to keep him awake longer to see if that will cut out the first wake up.

Xxx

 

[hayley_17]

Owen had such a bad night last night. Was definitely the worst so far .

He was very hard to settle and kept waking to be sick. He slept about 2 hours and woke again to be fed, i fed him, he went back down for an hour. That took the time to just after 1am, then he woke up, fell back to sleep for 30 mins, then didnt sleep again he didnt want to be fed, i changed him, tried him with water, tried winding him, everything. he wanted nothing. he just cried and cried. I felt useless and ended up crying myself

He got fed again at 4:30 and has been fine today. Very happy and smiley, apart from about 20 mins of crying due to tummy ache. I changed his milk to C & G comfort. It's not omneo comfort, its the 1st stage comfort milk. I couldn't get the omneo. He has had two feeds and seems so much more settled I don't know how quick it can get into his system or anything but he is like a different baby. No sick after them two feeds and he is now down fast asleep in his cot! It's nearly 7 over here which is a bit early for him to be down but usually he would be screaming right now!

He never used to respond to the whole bedtime routine but tonight he has been great Had his bath, bottle and a cuddle, started to fall asleep so i put him down awake and he was gone in a matter of minutes I'm so proud of him... fingers crossed he will sleep till at least his dream feed

I'm so happy right now I'm so hoping this lasts!! I'll let u no how it all went in the morning!!

Thanks for all the help

Hayley xxxx