Faith schools

[Lou]

I know we shouldn't talk about religion but it's important to talk about it don't you think? Anyway I'd really like your opinions....

After a bit of arsing about with the education dept giving me alot of worthless and incorrect information I have now found out (off my own back) that Isaac can start nursery (attached to primary school) from Spring 09 if there is a place for him, if not then he can start summer 09 but most probably next September 09. Although he will be 3 this december coming I think its better, after chatting to the school recpetionist, to wait untill next september so he will start with all the other children and not feel like the new boy like he would if he started in say spring or summer 09. (Not all schools have more than the sept intake but our local school does if places are available).

When choosing his nursery/primary school I went onto my local education dept website and read all the Ofsted reports for all the schools and as it turns out we have an outstanding school virtually on our back door step! (phew)! Its an ordinary school, by that I mean non-religious. Now the reason I'm writing this post is because the only other outstanding school in my borough is a faith school (Christian). Being non- church goers and with no religious views we have absolutely zero chance of Isaac getting a place at this school should he not get a place at the school I mentioned before on our back door step. Of course the school has to take a certain amount of non-religious children but really when the majority of applicants have to have a reference from the local parish to show they are worshipping you have to ask yourself why would you bother to apply?..And anyway.. (A)-why would you want to send a non religious child to a religious school? and (B)-I would rather Isaac not be the 'token' non-religious child who is simply there to make up numbers and represent some warped show of the school being culturally sensitive and PC. You're probably wondeirng why this should bother me as like I said why would I want to send Isaac to a faith school anyway?...well it bothers me for a few reasons, mainly because this school is outstanding in its Ofsted reports but is restricted as to the children it will allow to learn there. Surely this is blatant discrimination? I mean what has religion got to do with learning basics like English and Maths? Which brings me to the next reason this bothers me...The school website is proud to announce that the school approaches education with 'Christian values', well we are not christian but we DO have values, Isaac will be brought up to know right from wrong and be well mannered..oh I don't have to go on about that, you get the idea! The school does state that children can be excluded from the RE lessons but it is highly recommended that all children take part. So what parent in their right mind would want their child to be the 'odd one out' and excluded from lessons? Kids have a hard enough time fitting in as it is without drawing attention to themselves. It stinks of snobbery to me, as if those of us who aren't christian have less morals and values as those who are christian. (And thats without mentioning the scores of families who pretend to worship JUST to get their child into a faith school...don't get me started on that!!!!)

Me and Isaac have visited the nursery/school I would like him to attend and it is lovely but I am aware that when Isaac starts 'big school' I am allowed 3 choices. Obviously I want to choose the best schools in the borough but straight away the faith school is out of reach. How is this fair? and why in this day and age when we live in a multi cultural society and access to good education is becoming an issue should we tolerate this as the norm?

Sorry for the rant but I really value your opinions and I need to get it off my chest!!

Thanks x

 

[Suzie and Faith]

Hmmmmmm
It's a tough topic. I am a Christian and part of me would like Faith (ironic name, lol) to be a Christian too but I would NOT send her to a specifically Christian school as I believe it is a) important for her to make her own choices and b) i want her to mix with people from a variety of backgrounds - I want her to grow up around the same mix of people that there are in society.

I do think it is odd that in a society where we aren't supposed to discriminate that children can get into good schools because of their religion, to me every child should have the same right to a good standard of education no matter their religious beliefs.

I don't think i've been much help there have i! But i do agree with you! x

 

[Squiglet]

So what parent in their right mind would want their child to be the 'odd one out' and excluded from lessons? Kids have a hard enough time fitting in as it is without drawing attention to themselves.

er me...








Tia doesn't attend her RE lessons, never has... Shes not Christian, neither am I and I don't want her to be brought up with some complete strangers idea of what is right and just and Christian... After all not even all Christians see eye to eye

I think you should generally disregard your views on religious schools and aim to get Issac into the best possible school... If you can't get your first choice than, go for the religious one.

Religion is IMO not important in this sense. Getting your child into a good school is. I know it sounds hypocritical...It is. But your child's education is of the up most importance. I specifically moved house to make sure that Tia could go to one of the best schools in this area, its not religious but does teach religion.

Issac will take on board the religious ideas of the school if he attends religious education classes... but if he ends up getting good grades its something I would be willing to live with. I give Tia the freedom to explore what she wants to do, and tell her she is too young to make a decision about what she believes in yet. But when her periods start, she will be mature enough to make that decision then. It gives her a coming of age feeling IMO. Make sure Issac understands the same, and it will give him knowledge of other religions too.

As I said... don't worry about it too much. I felt the same things you did when I was living in the UK and our local school (the only one that would take Tia) was the local CofE school... But I had no choice, it was one of the best schools around.

Its one of those things and decisions we have to make as parents. And don't worry he won't be the token no religious kid... at that age they are FAR too young to really understand religion in that sense.

 

[daftscotslass]

Suzie said it better than I could. Even if I was of a particular faith I wouldn't send Becky to a faith school. But then I know that the non denominational schools in my area are all pretty good.

 

[mummykay]

would rather Jam went non denominational jus to avoid religious crap etc but if I reeeeeeeeallly couldnt get him in there for whatever reason the I guess he would have to go to the nx school and Il deal with the shizzle that the church throws at us lol

are there any proper Aethist schools?

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

I went to a CofE school and although I showed an interest at about aged 13, it didnt last long. My family was not religious so I was allowed to make my own mind up, which I did. If my family had been religious perhaps I would have been more persuaded towards religion, but I never was.

However, creationism wasnt taught then as it is in USA now, and many UK schools are attempting to do the same. That would be the only reason I could see now, for not sending a non-religous child to a religious school. They wouldnt be getting a rounded education, but a very biased one.

 

[beanie]

I wouldn't send my girls to a religious school no matter what, we are not religious so I would feel hypocritical to send them to a Christian school or muslim school etc. I want them to know about religion as I think it is important they understand all faiths but they can get that in a non faith school.

 

[Lou]

Thanks for your replies so far girls and I agree with you all.

The bottom line is even if I did apply for Isaac to attend the faith school the chances of him getting in are so slim. All the mums at playgroups have been to sunday worship and have got their references so are laughing as far as their applications go but I'm just not willing to bite the bullet and put aside my feelings but then I'd do anything for Isaac so maybe I'm being a little naive about it, I mean we've all got to do what we need to just get by in this world don't we? Somebody even told my OH (Jed) that slipping the father at church a bottle of wine will do no harm

Don't get me wrong I'm not attacking religion, live and let live and all that but Isaac deserves a decent education as much as the next child regardless of the beliefs me and Jed live by.

Oh and I also have no problem with Isaac learning about religion and other cultures but in an educational way rather than a 'do not question this' kind of preachy way.

 

[Lou]

I forgot to mention that when I read the school Ofsted reports I also noticed that they tell you the amount of children recieving free school meals attending the schools. So basically you can see how many 'poor' children are at the school. How terrible. Here read this....


http://www.secularism.org.uk/stopdiscri ... hools.html

 

[Xena]

I'm going to be sending the children to a Catholic school (the one I went to), and yes, whilst I agree it seems unfair that the faith schools gave better grades and reports and so on than non-faith schools, I don't think that is in any way the fault of the faith schools. Instead of saying how discriminatory it is that the good schools are faith schools and how it's not right that non-faith pupils can't attend them, shouldn't you be getting angry instead about the lack of teaching standards in non-faith schools?

I want my children to go to faith schools. I don't want all schools to be multicultural. If I wanted them to go to a multicultural school, I wouldn't put them in a catholic school. I don't see how it's the fault of the faith school that non=faith schools don't teach at the same standard.
I have no problem with there being faith schools for other religions, and I have no problem with there being non-faith schools. I don't see why you think there shouldn't be faith schools.

The problem that really needs addressing is why non-faith schools are of poor teaching standard.

 

[Lou]

I'm going to be sending the children to a Catholic school (the one I went to), and yes, whilst I agree it seems unfair that the faith schools gave better grades and reports and so on than non-faith schools, I don't think that is in any way the fault of the faith schools. Instead of saying how discriminatory it is that the good schools are faith schools and how it's not right that non-faith pupils can't attend them, shouldn't you be getting angry instead about the lack of teaching standards in non-faith schools?

I want my children to go to faith schools. I don't want all schools to be multicultural. If I wanted them to go to a multicultural school, I wouldn't put them in a catholic school. I don't see how it's the fault of the faith school that non=faith schools don't teach at the same standard.
I have no problem with there being faith schools for other religions, and I have no problem with there being non-faith schools. I don't see why you think there shouldn't be faith schools.

The problem that really needs addressing is why non-faith schools are of poor teaching standard.

This is exactly the kind of snobbery I am angry with! You assume that non faith schools are inferior when if you had read my first post you would have seen that Isaac has an outstanding school on our back door step which is NOT a faith school. The problem that needs addressing is why faith schools discriminate. ANY child is welcome at a non faith school, unlike faith schools. Is that fair?

 

[Xena]

I'm going to be sending the children to a Catholic school (the one I went to), and yes, whilst I agree it seems unfair that the faith schools gave better grades and reports and so on than non-faith schools, I don't think that is in any way the fault of the faith schools. Instead of saying how discriminatory it is that the good schools are faith schools and how it's not right that non-faith pupils can't attend them, shouldn't you be getting angry instead about the lack of teaching standards in non-faith schools?

I want my children to go to faith schools. I don't want all schools to be multicultural. If I wanted them to go to a multicultural school, I wouldn't put them in a catholic school. I don't see how it's the fault of the faith school that non=faith schools don't teach at the same standard.
I have no problem with there being faith schools for other religions, and I have no problem with there being non-faith schools. I don't see why you think there shouldn't be faith schools.

The problem that really needs addressing is why non-faith schools are of poor teaching standard.

This is exactly the kind of snobbery I am angry with! You assume that non faith schools are inferior when if you had read my first post you would have seen that Isaac has an outstanding school on our back door step which is NOT a faith school. The problem that needs addressing is why faith schools discriminate. ANY child is welcome at a non faith school, unlike faith schools. Is that fair?

Well I didn't mean ALL non-faith schools are inferior, but from your own admission faith schools tend to have good reports. It's a general trend, I didn't mean it was the case for every one.

And the whole point of a non-faith school, is that it's a non-faith school. So of course any child is welcome at it. That's logical.
And the whole point of a faith school, is to be a faith school.
What would be the point of it being a faith school if it didn't concentrate on the faith?


I don't understand what you're pissed off about. That a faith school wants to have children of that faith? *gasp* my god the injustice

Sorry but what's the problem with that? It's a FAITH SCHOOL. If you want your child to go to it, then BE of that faith. Bloody hell I wouldn't expect a muslim school or a jewish school or a C of E school to take my child in, because I'm NOT of those faiths.

Apologies if I seem less than sympathetic, but I don't understand what you are having an issue with.

 

[Xena]

*sigh*
Sorry, that was probably unnecessarily harsh. I didn't mean to be so volitile.

 

[daftscotslass]

Obviously I can't speak for England and Wales but I know here that faith schools aren't "catchment" schools that your child would automatically go to if you lived in a particular area. Parents that put their children into faith schools are the ones that generally have put a lot of thought into applying etc and overall seem to have more of an interest in their child's education. I think that has a very large role to play in the faith schools' reports being better. It's not always down to poor teaching standards in non-denominational schools.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[Lou]

I'm going to be sending the children to a Catholic school (the one I went to), and yes, whilst I agree it seems unfair that the faith schools gave better grades and reports and so on than non-faith schools, I don't think that is in any way the fault of the faith schools. Instead of saying how discriminatory it is that the good schools are faith schools and how it's not right that non-faith pupils can't attend them, shouldn't you be getting angry instead about the lack of teaching standards in non-faith schools?

I want my children to go to faith schools. I don't want all schools to be multicultural. If I wanted them to go to a multicultural school, I wouldn't put them in a catholic school. I don't see how it's the fault of the faith school that non=faith schools don't teach at the same standard.
I have no problem with there being faith schools for other religions, and I have no problem with there being non-faith schools. I don't see why you think there shouldn't be faith schools.

The problem that really needs addressing is why non-faith schools are of poor teaching standard.

This is exactly the kind of snobbery I am angry with! You assume that non faith schools are inferior when if you had read my first post you would have seen that Isaac has an outstanding school on our back door step which is NOT a faith school. The problem that needs addressing is why faith schools discriminate. ANY child is welcome at a non faith school, unlike faith schools. Is that fair?

Well I didn't mean ALL non-faith schools are inferior, but from your own admission faith schools tend to have good reports. It's a general trend, I didn't mean it was the case for every one.

And the whole point of a non-faith school, is that it's a non-faith school. So of course any child is welcome at it. That's logical.
And the whole point of a faith school, is to be a faith school.
What would be the point of it being a faith school if it didn't concentrate on the faith?


I don't understand what you're p*ssed off about. That a faith school wants to have children of that faith? *gasp* my god the injustice

Sorry but what's the problem with that? It's a FAITH SCHOOL. If you want your child to go to it, then BE of that faith. Bloody hell I wouldn't expect a muslim school or a jewish school or a C of E school to take my child in, because I'm NOT of those faiths.

Apologies if I seem less than sympathetic, but I don't understand what you are having an issue with.

Please read my first post on this thread.

 

[Krystal]

*sigh*
Sorry, that was probably unnecessarily harsh. I didn't mean to be so volitile.

I don't think you have and agree with all the points you make.

Why shouldn't a christian/muslim etc school be for people of those faiths. There are non faith schools for you to choose from (which is what you seem to have done) I just don't see the big issue..

mountain out of a mole hill if ya ask me

 

[Krystal]

oh yeah and it's nice to see ya back Lou

 

[Lou]

Obviously I can't speak for England and Wales but I know here that faith schools aren't "catchment" schools that your child would automatically go to if you lived in a particular area. Parents that put their children into faith schools are the ones that generally have put a lot of thought into applying etc and overall seem to have more of an interest in their child's education. I think that has a very large role to play in the faith schools' reports being better. It's not always down to poor teaching standards in non-denominational schools.

Hope that makes sense!

I can't actually believe you have just written that! I have put plenty of thought into Isaac's school thank you. I understand what you are saying but I totally don't agree with it!

 

[Lou]

*sigh*
Sorry, that was probably unnecessarily harsh. I didn't mean to be so volitile.

I don't think you have and agree with all the points you make.

Why shouldn't a christian/muslim etc school be for people of those faiths. There are non faith schools for you to choose from (which is what you seem to have done) I just don't see the big issue..

mountain out of a mole hill if ya ask me

I'll tell you why because the taxes me and my OH pay fund the faith schools that Isaac can't get into! Why shouldn't ALL children have access to ALL education thats available? What has religion got to do with basics like maths and english?!!!! If you want only muslim schools or only christian schools then make them private!!

 

[daftscotslass]

Obviously I can't speak for England and Wales but I know here that faith schools aren't "catchment" schools that your child would automatically go to if you lived in a particular area. Parents that put their children into faith schools are the ones that generally have put a lot of thought into applying etc and overall seem to have more of an interest in their child's education. I think that has a very large role to play in the faith schools' reports being better. It's not always down to poor teaching standards in non-denominational schools.

Hope that makes sense!

I can't actually believe you have just written that! I have put plenty of thought into Isaac's school thank you. I understand what you are saying but I totally don't agree with it!

Noooooooo I didn't mean it that way at all! PLEASE don't take it that way!

I meant because here in Scotland we HAVE to go to our catchment school - we don't have a choice. To go to a school other than that you have to put in applications called a placing request which is a formal process and a lot of effort - one that a lot of people just can't be bothered with.

Sorry - I didn't mean it that way at all. Does that make any sense now?