Faith schools

[Lou]

Obviously I can't speak for England and Wales but I know here that faith schools aren't "catchment" schools that your child would automatically go to if you lived in a particular area. Parents that put their children into faith schools are the ones that generally have put a lot of thought into applying etc and overall seem to have more of an interest in their child's education. I think that has a very large role to play in the faith schools' reports being better. It's not always down to poor teaching standards in non-denominational schools.

Hope that makes sense!

I can't actually believe you have just written that! I have put plenty of thought into Isaac's school thank you. I understand what you are saying but I totally don't agree with it!

Noooooooo I didn't mean it that way at all! PLEASE don't take it that way!

I meant because here in Scotland we HAVE to go to our catchment school - we don't have a choice. To go to a school other than that you have to put in applications called a placing request which is a formal process and a lot of effort - one that a lot of people just can't be bothered with.

Sorry - I didn't mean it that way at all. Does that make any sense now?

Yes that makes sense now. Sorry

 

[Xena]

*sigh*
Sorry, that was probably unnecessarily harsh. I didn't mean to be so volitile.

I don't think you have and agree with all the points you make.

Why shouldn't a christian/muslim etc school be for people of those faiths. There are non faith schools for you to choose from (which is what you seem to have done) I just don't see the big issue..

mountain out of a mole hill if ya ask me

I'll tell you why because the taxes me and my OH pay fund the faith schools that Isaac can't get into! Why shouldn't ALL children have access to ALL education thats available? What has religion got to do with basics like maths and english?!!!! If you want only muslim schools or only christian schools then make them private!!

Yes, well the taxes that me and OH pay fun the non faith schools, and the faith schools of religions that I'm not part of. Same thing really isn't it.

 

[daftscotslass]

Yes that makes sense now. Sorry

Phew... lol

I remember a topic like this on the TES Scotland (teaching) forum... got to several hundred pages.

 

[Lou]

*sigh*
Sorry, that was probably unnecessarily harsh. I didn't mean to be so volitile.

I don't think you have and agree with all the points you make.

Why shouldn't a christian/muslim etc school be for people of those faiths. There are non faith schools for you to choose from (which is what you seem to have done) I just don't see the big issue..

mountain out of a mole hill if ya ask me

I'll tell you why because the taxes me and my OH pay fund the faith schools that Isaac can't get into! Why shouldn't ALL children have access to ALL education thats available? What has religion got to do with basics like maths and english?!!!! If you want only muslim schools or only christian schools then make them private!!

Yes, well the taxes that me and OH pay fun the non faith schools, and the faith schools of religions that I'm not part of. Same thing really isn't it.

Yes but the difference is that the non faith schools funded by you and me are available to EVERYONE! Sorry but please can't you see where I'm coming from? even a little bit ?

 

[Lou]

Yes that makes sense now. Sorry

Phew... lol

I remember a topic like this on the TES Scotland (teaching) forum... got to several hundred pages.

I can imagine. I just think its blatant discrimination and if you think you are being unfairly treated shouldn't you speak up? Thats the only reason I'm voicing my opinion.

 

[beanie]

There are few state muslim schools, I think about 8?? The vast majority are private but I think that there should be some state funded faith schools. Not everyone who wants their child to go into a faith school can afford the fees, so they would be denied the chance to have their child educated as they want. It is unfair, I would love my children to go to a monteressi school but thats never going to happen as we can't afford it but I guess thats life, I pay taxes that fund a lot of services I never access. I don't want my child to go to a faith school, even if it was the best one around (which it isn't here) I just feel it would go against my beliefs.

 

[babsi]

It's different in Canada, if you live in the catchment area then you go to the catchment school, if they are too many kids they have to add another class. You also have the option of going to a school outside the catchment, I know our neighbour does.

Saying all of that, Kai was baptised so we have an option of Catholic schools and most of the time they are better. For me the most important thing is the standard of edcuation and for us they tick the boxes. Just need time to think about things.

I don't find it hypocritical because he is baptized, all we want is the best for him.

 

[Lou]

There are few state muslim schools, I think about 8?? The vast majority are private but I think that there should be some state funded faith schools. Not everyone who wants their child to go into a faith school can afford the fees, so they would be denied the chance to have their child educated as they want. It is unfair, I would love my children to go to a monteressi school but thats never going to happen as we can't afford it but I guess thats life, I pay taxes that fund a lot of services I never access. I don't want my child to go to a faith school, even if it was the best one around (which it isn't here) I just feel it would go against my beliefs.

My cousin is the flip side of the coin because she sends her half muslim child to a rubbish school simply because it is muslim. Wheres the sense in that?

 

[Mildly]

I wouldn't want my son to go to a religious school because I'd like him to grow up without a religious bias throughout his schooling. The primary school that I went to was a C of E one, as were most village primary schools at the time. Prayers were said in assembly and before lunch and Christian ideology was commonplace i.e. bible stories presented as fact. It didn't give me the chance to make up my own mind (it probably didn't help that my Mum sent me to Sunday school and church at the same time either) or learn about other faiths. Christianity was presented as 'the truth' which I think is the wrong emphasis. In the age of multi-cultural Britain, I think it is important for kids to learn about all major (and minor) religions to help prevent religious intolerance within society. I am certainly in favour of a seperate church and state, religion is a personal thing and should remain so. The creationism creeping into schools in the US is deeply disturbing especially at the expense of evolution - I prefer my science to be based on fact.

If the best schools in my area were religious, I would prefer to send my son to the non-religious school. A school with no religious bias would indicate a more liberal style of teaching which I would prefer for my son. While I can appreciate that a good education is important for kids, I also feel there is more to life than just academic achievement.

 

[beanie]

There are few state muslim schools, I think about 8?? The vast majority are private but I think that there should be some state funded faith schools. Not everyone who wants their child to go into a faith school can afford the fees, so they would be denied the chance to have their child educated as they want. It is unfair, I would love my children to go to a monteressi school but thats never going to happen as we can't afford it but I guess thats life, I pay taxes that fund a lot of services I never access. I don't want my child to go to a faith school, even if it was the best one around (which it isn't here) I just feel it would go against my beliefs.

My cousin is the flip side of the coin because she sends her half muslim child to a rubbish school simply because it is muslim. Wheres the sense in that?

perhaps it is important to them that he is in a muslim school. The school I want to send Seren to isn't the best in terms of educational success but the parents speak highly of how good a school it is in terms of informal learning and being a close group - that is more important to me then how many good SATs levels they get.

 

[Lou]

There are few state muslim schools, I think about 8?? The vast majority are private but I think that there should be some state funded faith schools. Not everyone who wants their child to go into a faith school can afford the fees, so they would be denied the chance to have their child educated as they want. It is unfair, I would love my children to go to a monteressi school but thats never going to happen as we can't afford it but I guess thats life, I pay taxes that fund a lot of services I never access. I don't want my child to go to a faith school, even if it was the best one around (which it isn't here) I just feel it would go against my beliefs.

My cousin is the flip side of the coin because she sends her half muslim child to a rubbish school simply because it is muslim. Wheres the sense in that?

perhaps it is important to them that he is in a muslim school. The school I want to send Seren to isn't the best in terms of educational success but the parents speak highly of how good a school it is in terms of informal learning and being a close group - that is more important to me then how many good SATs levels they get.

But if a bright child is being held back in a school which lacks good basic levels of education then that chld will be unhappy and frustrated surely? I know what you are saying but Isaac can get his comfort and social skills at home, I want a school which he can learn from and if it also has wonderful staff and good moral then even better!

 

[Lou]

I wouldn't want my son to go to a religious school because I'd like him to grow up without a religious bias throughout his schooling. The primary school that I went to was a C of E one, as were most village primary schools at the time. Prayers were said in assembly and before lunch and Christian ideology was commonplace i.e. bible stories presented as fact. It didn't give me the chance to make up my own mind (it probably didn't help that my Mum sent me to Sunday school and church at the same time either) or learn about other faiths. Christianity was presented as 'the truth' which I think is the wrong emphasis. In the age of multi-cultural Britain, I think it is important for kids to learn about all major (and minor) religions to help prevent religious intolerance within society. I am certainly in favour of a seperate church and state, religion is a personal thing and should remain so. The creationism creeping into schools in the US is deeply disturbing especially at the expense of evolution - I prefer my science to be based on fact.

If the best schools in my area were religious, I would prefer to send my son to the non-religious school. A school with no religious bias would indicate a more liberal style of teaching which I would prefer for my son. While I can appreciate that a good education is important for kids, I also feel there is more to life than just academic achievement.

Thats where I'm coming from.

 

[Xena]

*sigh*
Sorry, that was probably unnecessarily harsh. I didn't mean to be so volitile.

I don't think you have and agree with all the points you make.

Why shouldn't a christian/muslim etc school be for people of those faiths. There are non faith schools for you to choose from (which is what you seem to have done) I just don't see the big issue..

mountain out of a mole hill if ya ask me

I'll tell you why because the taxes me and my OH pay fund the faith schools that Isaac can't get into! Why shouldn't ALL children have access to ALL education thats available? What has religion got to do with basics like maths and english?!!!! If you want only muslim schools or only christian schools then make them private!!

Yes, well the taxes that me and OH pay fun the non faith schools, and the faith schools of religions that I'm not part of. Same thing really isn't it.

Yes but the difference is that the non faith schools funded by you and me are available to EVERYONE! Sorry but please can't you see where I'm coming from? even a little bit ?

not really.

If non-faith schools are so good, then there's no problem, you can use one of those.
If non-faith schools AREN'T good, then that's not the fault of faith schools, it's something that should be addressed as a separate issue.
Faith schools exist for people of that faith. If you are not of that faith, stop complaining that you can't get your child into that school.
If all faith schools accepted all children regardless of their faith, then they would no longer be faith schools, and that would mean that people who DO want to send their child to a faith school would no longer have that option (and don't say make them private - not everybody can afford to pay private fees).
You basically want your cake and to be able to eat it too. You want to send your non-faith child to a faith school, and are outraged that you can't. There's a very good reason why you can't - you just don't seem to be able to see it. The reason is that it's a faith school, and your child is not of that faith.

 

[lauramumof2]

Im sending my 2 to a catholic school. 1 currently goes to the nursery and the other one goes to a non school nursery for 2 year old. Its important for us as a family that they go to that school but I wont make them be interested in religeon. I want then to 'want' to do things and if they say, we arent interested, we want to do this or that then fine.

But I would like it if they were interested, i just wont enforce it.

 

[Misslarue]

I wouldn't want my son to go to a religious school because I'd like him to grow up without a religious bias throughout his schooling. The primary school that I went to was a C of E one, as were most village primary schools at the time. Prayers were said in assembly and before lunch and Christian ideology was commonplace i.e. bible stories presented as fact. It didn't give me the chance to make up my own mind (it probably didn't help that my Mum sent me to Sunday school and church at the same time either) or learn about other faiths. Christianity was presented as 'the truth' which I think is the wrong emphasis. In the age of multi-cultural Britain, I think it is important for kids to learn about all major (and minor) religions to help prevent religious intolerance within society. I am certainly in favour of a seperate church and state, religion is a personal thing and should remain so. The creationism creeping into schools in the US is deeply disturbing especially at the expense of evolution - I prefer my science to be based on fact.

If the best schools in my area were religious, I would prefer to send my son to the non-religious school. A school with no religious bias would indicate a more liberal style of teaching which I would prefer for my son. While I can appreciate that a good education is important for kids, I also feel there is more to life than just academic achievement.

This pretty much sums up how I feel Midly
I especially agree with creationism in the US comment. Not only is it creeping into their schools but also into their politics. Palin recently declared her belief in creationism.

I feel very strongly as to how religion's will be taught to my son. Idealy I would prefer to teach him myself about the various religions that exist, but when I feel he is old enough to understand the concept and wise enough to make his own informed decision.

 

[Lou]

[quote="Xena":2nmpooig]*sigh*
Sorry, that was probably unnecessarily harsh. I didn't mean to be so volitile.

I don't think you have and agree with all the points you make.

Why shouldn't a christian/muslim etc school be for people of those faiths. There are non faith schools for you to choose from (which is what you seem to have done) I just don't see the big issue..

mountain out of a mole hill if ya ask me

I'll tell you why because the taxes me and my OH pay fund the faith schools that Isaac can't get into! Why shouldn't ALL children have access to ALL education thats available? What has religion got to do with basics like maths and english?!!!! If you want only muslim schools or only christian schools then make them private!!

Yes, well the taxes that me and OH pay fun the non faith schools, and the faith schools of religions that I'm not part of. Same thing really isn't it.

Yes but the difference is that the non faith schools funded by you and me are available to EVERYONE! Sorry but please can't you see where I'm coming from? even a little bit ?

not really.

If non-faith schools are so good, then there's no problem, you can use one of those.
If non-faith schools AREN'T good, then that's not the fault of faith schools, it's something that should be addressed as a separate issue.
Faith schools exist for people of that faith. If you are not of that faith, stop complaining that you can't get your child into that school.
If all faith schools accepted all children regardless of their faith, then they would no longer be faith schools, and that would mean that people who DO want to send their child to a faith school would no longer have that option (and don't say make them private - not everybody can afford to pay private fees).
You basically want your cake and to be able to eat it too. You want to send your non-faith child to a faith school, and are outraged that you can't. There's a very good reason why you can't - you just don't seem to be able to see it. The reason is that it's a faith school, and your child is not of that faith.[/quote:2nmpooig]

I can see perfectly well why Isaac can't go to a faith school but it doesn't make it fair. Let me make my point clear to you. When I read my local schools Ofsted reports I saw that there are 2 outstanding schools in my borough. One is faith and one is non faith. My gripe is that if Isaac does not get into the non fath school I will have to choose a school which isn't outstanding because Isaac has no chance of getting into the faith school. And like I said in my first post, why would I want to send him there anyway? Well because the school is apparently 'open' to all children but because of their biased and discriminatory selection system Isaac has absolutely zero chance of getting a place. So why make it 'available' to all children when its blatantly not? It is basically a private school funded by everyone. IS THAT FAIR?

 

[Xena]

I can see perfectly well why Isaac can't go to a faith school but it doesn't make it fair. Let me make my point clear to you. When I read my local schools Ofsted reports I saw that there are 2 outstanding schools in my borough. One is faith and one is non faith. My gripe is that if Isaac does not get into the non fath school I will have to choose a school which isn't outstanding because Isaac has no chance of getting into the faith school. And like I said in my first post, why would I want to send him there anyway? Well because the school is apparently 'open' to all children but because of their biased and discriminatory selection system Isaac has absolutely zero chance of getting a place. So why make it 'available' to all children when its blatantly not? It is basically a private school funded by everyone. IS THAT FAIR?

And if the faith school is over-subscribed, then people who would have originally wanted their child to go to a faith school, will have to make do with sending their child to a non-faith school.
That's not fair either.

Life is full of injustices - you are no more hard done by than anybody else.

I think it's perfectly acceptable that faith children are given priority at faith schools over non faith children.

It would not be fair for your child to not get into the 'good' non-faith school, but don't take it out on the faith school.

 

[Lou]

I can see perfectly well why Isaac can't go to a faith school but it doesn't make it fair. Let me make my point clear to you. When I read my local schools Ofsted reports I saw that there are 2 outstanding schools in my borough. One is faith and one is non faith. My gripe is that if Isaac does not get into the non fath school I will have to choose a school which isn't outstanding because Isaac has no chance of getting into the faith school. And like I said in my first post, why would I want to send him there anyway? Well because the school is apparently 'open' to all children but because of their biased and discriminatory selection system Isaac has absolutely zero chance of getting a place. So why make it 'available' to all children when its blatantly not? It is basically a private school funded by everyone. IS THAT FAIR?

And if the faith school is over-subscribed, then people who would have originally wanted their child to go to a faith school, will have to make do with sending their child to a non-faith school.
That's not fair either.

Life is full of injustices - you are no more hard done by than anybody else.

I think it's perfectly acceptable that faith children are given priority at faith schools over non faith children.

It would not be fair for your child to not get into the 'good' non-faith school, but don't take it out on the faith school.

But the huge diference is that if a child of faith did not get a place in a faith school and had to 'make do' (your words not mine) with the non faith school that child would be more than welcome into that non faith school.

 

[Xena]

I can see perfectly well why Isaac can't go to a faith school but it doesn't make it fair. Let me make my point clear to you. When I read my local schools Ofsted reports I saw that there are 2 outstanding schools in my borough. One is faith and one is non faith. My gripe is that if Isaac does not get into the non fath school I will have to choose a school which isn't outstanding because Isaac has no chance of getting into the faith school. And like I said in my first post, why would I want to send him there anyway? Well because the school is apparently 'open' to all children but because of their biased and discriminatory selection system Isaac has absolutely zero chance of getting a place. So why make it 'available' to all children when its blatantly not? It is basically a private school funded by everyone. IS THAT FAIR?

And if the faith school is over-subscribed, then people who would have originally wanted their child to go to a faith school, will have to make do with sending their child to a non-faith school.
That's not fair either.

Life is full of injustices - you are no more hard done by than anybody else.

I think it's perfectly acceptable that faith children are given priority at faith schools over non faith children.

It would not be fair for your child to not get into the 'good' non-faith school, but don't take it out on the faith school.

But the huge diference is that if a child of faith did not get a place in a faith school and had to 'make do' (your words not mine) with the non faith school that child would be more than welcome into that non faith school.

Faith schools take faith children. I don't know why that is so difficult for you to comprehend?
It's like complaining that you can't have a barmitzvah when you aren't jewish.
Or complaning that you aren't allowed to eat communion bread when you aren't christian.

a non-faith school takes anybody. that's what it is for. a faith school is for children of that faith.

You're an intelligent woman, so I feel a little like I'm pointing out the obvious. I just am not sure why you don't get this concept.

 

[Lou]

I can see perfectly well why Isaac can't go to a faith school but it doesn't make it fair. Let me make my point clear to you. When I read my local schools Ofsted reports I saw that there are 2 outstanding schools in my borough. One is faith and one is non faith. My gripe is that if Isaac does not get into the non fath school I will have to choose a school which isn't outstanding because Isaac has no chance of getting into the faith school. And like I said in my first post, why would I want to send him there anyway? Well because the school is apparently 'open' to all children but because of their biased and discriminatory selection system Isaac has absolutely zero chance of getting a place. So why make it 'available' to all children when its blatantly not? It is basically a private school funded by everyone. IS THAT FAIR?

And if the faith school is over-subscribed, then people who would have originally wanted their child to go to a faith school, will have to make do with sending their child to a non-faith school.
That's not fair either.

Life is full of injustices - you are no more hard done by than anybody else.

I think it's perfectly acceptable that faith children are given priority at faith schools over non faith children.

It would not be fair for your child to not get into the 'good' non-faith school, but don't take it out on the faith school.

But the huge diference is that if a child of faith did not get a place in a faith school and had to 'make do' (your words not mine) with the non faith school that child would be more than welcome into that non faith school.

Faith schools take faith children. I don't know why that is so difficult for you to comprehend?
It's like complaining that you can't have a barmitzvah when you aren't jewish.
Or complaning that you aren't allowed to eat communion bread when you aren't christian.

a non-faith school takes anybody. that's what it is for. a faith school is for children of that faith.

You're an intelligent woman, so I feel a little like I'm pointing out the obvious. I just am not sure why you don't get this concept.

Are you winding me up?

I understand the faith non faith concept but what I am saying is that its NOT FAIR! Isaac should have access to an outstanding school regardless of the religious beliefs of me and my OH Jed.