Faith schools

[lisa&alex]

lol.. tbh lou... i dont see what point your trying to make..
if your sons education is really important to you.. and he doesnt get into the number 1 school then i would suggest some home schooling from you to up his intelligence.then u can makesure he is ontrack. i completly agree with xena religious schools are for children who follow a faith. im pretty sure if it wasnt the next best school in your area.. then im sure you wouldnt be bothered about this topic at all. i would be more bothered about trying to get your son into the top non non-religious school in your area.

 

[zebrastripes]

Faith schools are a huge no-no for me.

I go to a grammar school which doesn't require any particular proof of worship to get in, though it IS predominantly Protestant, but TBH nobody could really give a damn, though it's really Christian thats to do with the fact it's a grammar,not because it follows any particular denomination.

But even so,I have been getting religion shoved down my throat for the last 14 years The number of bolloxings I've had for arguing with my RE teacher Still, like I said, it doesn't affect any of the pupils except those who get it at home.

So basically there's no way I'd be forcing W to go to a school where she was getting that times 10. If a kid is genuinely bright and has plenty of home support, it should suceed no matter what school it's at (really,unbearably, crappy schools aside) I mean at your common or garden comprehensive.

I don't think faith schools should be around at all,actually. And if they are, they should get zilch funding from the government. That may seem extreme, but segregation doesn't lead anywhere good. I still can't believe that there's thousands of kids in this country who leave school believeing the world was created in 6 days WTF.

Actually, here's one better. My best mate goes to a catholic faith school and she didn't know what an STD was until she was 16 and I told her. By which time she'd already slept with one guy and got a bit funky with a couple more. Unbelievable,but true.

Catholic,Protestant,Muslim,whatever, kids ashould all have the option to go to a decent state school where they can mix with other kids from all different backgrounds. Ergo you lessen the risk of any sort of fundamentalism/extremism as well

 

[zebrastripes]

I can see perfectly well why Isaac can't go to a faith school but it doesn't make it fair. Let me make my point clear to you. When I read my local schools Ofsted reports I saw that there are 2 outstanding schools in my borough. One is faith and one is non faith. My gripe is that if Isaac does not get into the non fath school I will have to choose a school which isn't outstanding because Isaac has no chance of getting into the faith school. And like I said in my first post, why would I want to send him there anyway? Well because the school is apparently 'open' to all children but because of their biased and discriminatory selection system Isaac has absolutely zero chance of getting a place. So why make it 'available' to all children when its blatantly not? It is basically a private school funded by everyone. IS THAT FAIR?

And if the faith school is over-subscribed, then people who would have originally wanted their child to go to a faith school, will have to make do with sending their child to a non-faith school.
That's not fair either.

Life is full of injustices - you are no more hard done by than anybody else.

I think it's perfectly acceptable that faith children are given priority at faith schools over non faith children.

It would not be fair for your child to not get into the 'good' non-faith school, but don't take it out on the faith school.

But the huge diference is that if a child of faith did not get a place in a faith school and had to 'make do' (your words not mine) with the non faith school that child would be more than welcome into that non faith school.

Faith schools take faith children. I don't know why that is so difficult for you to comprehend?
It's like complaining that you can't have a barmitzvah when you aren't jewish.
Or complaning that you aren't allowed to eat communion bread when you aren't christian.

a non-faith school takes anybody. that's what it is for. a faith school is for children of that faith.

You're an intelligent woman, so I feel a little like I'm pointing out the obvious. I just am not sure why you don't get this concept.

Are you winding me up?

I understand the faith non faith concept but what I am saying is that its NOT FAIR! Isaac should have access to an outstanding school regardless of the religious beliefs of me and my OH Jed.

As in, the monopoly shouldn't be held by a school which pretty much picks and chooses its kids on grounds of faith? (or lack of,in the case of the faith-fakers)

 

[widowwadman]

I
If all faith schools accepted all children regardless of their faith, then they would no longer be faith schools, and that would mean that people who DO want to send their child to a faith school would no longer have that option (and don't say make them private - not everybody can afford to pay private fees).
You basically want your cake and to be able to eat it too. .

But so do you, basically you argue that the general public should fund a school which in return is not open to the general public. The fact that many couldn't afford an exclusive school if it was not funded by the state is neither here nor there. If the exclusion of people who are not of that faith is so important to the school being a "faith school" it shouldn't be financed by anyone other than those of that faith either.

 

[Lou]

I
If all faith schools accepted all children regardless of their faith, then they would no longer be faith schools, and that would mean that people who DO want to send their child to a faith school would no longer have that option (and don't say make them private - not everybody can afford to pay private fees).
You basically want your cake and to be able to eat it too. .

But so do you, basically you argue that the general public should fund a school which in return is not open to the general public. The fact that many couldn't afford an exclusive school if it was not funded by the state is neither here nor there. If the exclusion of people who are not of that faith is so important to the school being a "faith school" it shouldn't be financed by anyone other than those of that faith either.

EXACTLY!

 

[Lou]

lol.. tbh lou... i dont see what point your trying to make..
if your sons education is really important to you.. and he doesnt get into the number 1 school then i would suggest some home schooling from you to up his intelligence.then u can makesure he is ontrack. i completly agree with xena religious schools are for children who follow a faith. im pretty sure if it wasnt the next best school in your area.. then im sure you wouldnt be bothered about this topic at all. i would be more bothered about trying to get your son into the top non non-religious school in your area.

I would care because any form of discrimination is wrong in my eyes. True it is a subject I feel strongly about at the moment because it has come to my attention now with Isaac starting school soon.

 

[zebrastripes]

There are few state muslim schools, I think about 8?? The vast majority are private but I think that there should be some state funded faith schools. Not everyone who wants their child to go into a faith school can afford the fees, so they would be denied the chance to have their child educated as they want. It is unfair, I would love my children to go to a monteressi school but thats never going to happen as we can't afford it but I guess thats life, I pay taxes that fund a lot of services I never access. I don't want my child to go to a faith school, even if it was the best one around (which it isn't here) I just feel it would go against my beliefs.

beanie- i was considering the steiner school for wills, but I have been hearing some VERY dodgy things about steiner waldorf, monteressi, the whole kaboosh bit off topic,just thought I'd mention it for future reference, cause I really dont know what to think on that one

 

[Lou]

Faith schools are a huge no-no for me.

I go to a grammar school which doesn't require any particular proof of worship to get in, though it IS predominantly Protestant, but TBH nobody could really give a damn, though it's really Christian thats to do with the fact it's a grammar,not because it follows any particular denomination.

But even so,I have been getting religion shoved down my throat for the last 14 years The number of bolloxings I've had for arguing with my RE teacher Still, like I said, it doesn't affect any of the pupils except those who get it at home.

So basically there's no way I'd be forcing W to go to a school where she was getting that times 10. If a kid is genuinely bright and has plenty of home support, it should suceed no matter what school it's at (really,unbearably, crappy schools aside) I mean at your common or garden comprehensive.

I don't think faith schools should be around at all,actually. And if they are, they should get zilch funding from the government. That may seem extreme, but segregation doesn't lead anywhere good. I still can't believe that there's thousands of kids in this country who leave school believeing the world was created in 6 days WTF.

Actually, here's one better. My best mate goes to a catholic faith school and she didn't know what an STD was until she was 16 and I told her. By which time she'd already slept with one guy and got a bit funky with a couple more. Unbelievable,but true.

Catholic,Protestant,Muslim,whatever, kids ashould all have the option to go to a decent state school where they can mix with other kids from all different backgrounds. Ergo you lessen the risk of any sort of fundamentalism/extremism as well

6 days thats what my mum says, she works at a faith school as a dinner lady and the kids are very confused about the Big Bang machine.

 

[lisa&alex]

well.. lets pretty much say.. we pay taxes.. to things we dont want to..i help the druggy accross the road to fuel his drug habit.. i dont want to.. i would prefur my taxes to go to the local catholic school to help childrens educations.. u have no contol over it so educate your children the best you can yourself.

 

[beanie]

I don't think its as exclusive as people make out though. I know of parents who have had their children christened for the sole purpose of getting into the faith school and have gotten their children into them. TBH Lou I kind of agree with Lisa and Xena, you wouldn't want Isaac to go to the faith school even if it was the best so I am not sure why it bothers you so much.

ZS there is the issue of the "cult" thing with the Steiner schools, I have read a bit into it but seeing as I would ever be able to afford it thought there was no point in reading too much about it. It is concerning but I guess its the theories behind it that I agree with not the actual methods IYKWIM.

I think the ideaof one school for everyone to mix in and learn about eachother is great in theory but not so practical. Being different in a school is hard, and I can fully understand why someparents would send their child into a school where they can guarentee that they are being taught how they feel is best, and where there are others around them that are the same. That's not to say I agree with it but I can understand it.

 

[daftscotslass]

FWIW my mother in law went to a Montessori school and she's nuts

 

[Lou]

well.. lets pretty much say.. we pay taxes.. to things we dont want to..i help the druggy accross the road to fuel his drug habit.. i dont want to.. i would prefur my taxes to go to the local catholic school to help childrens educations.. u have no contol over it so educate your children the best you can yourself.

Yeah thats true but it doesn't make it right does it? I do have control over Isaac's education, by choosing his school and making an effort to do some research and do whats best and I have now found out some things about schools and faith schools I don't agree with so I'm voicing my views to you guys and chatting about it.

 

[Lou]

I don't think its as exclusive as people make out though. I know of parents who have had their children christened for the sole purpose of getting into the faith school and have gotten their children into them. TBH Lou I kind of agree with Lisa and Xena, you wouldn't want Isaac to go to the faith school even if it was the best so I am not sure why it bothers you so much.

ZS there is the issue of the "cult" thing with the Steiner schools, I have read a bit into it but seeing as I would ever be able to afford it thought there was no point in reading too much about it. It is concerning but I guess its the theories behind it that I agree with not the actual methods IYKWIM.

I think the ideaof one school for everyone to mix in and learn about eachother is great in theory but not so practical. Being different in a school is hard, and I can fully understand why someparents would send their child into a school where they can guarentee that they are being taught how they feel is best, and where there are others around them that are the same. That's not to say I agree with it but I can understand it.

So to make it available you think its ok to lie and pretend to be religious? Thats not me, sorry. And I did explain why it bothers me more than once, read my first post if you aren't sure.

 

[beanie]

FWIW my mother in law went to a Montessori school and she's nuts

will bear that in mind

 

[Xena]

I
If all faith schools accepted all children regardless of their faith, then they would no longer be faith schools, and that would mean that people who DO want to send their child to a faith school would no longer have that option (and don't say make them private - not everybody can afford to pay private fees).
You basically want your cake and to be able to eat it too. .

But so do you, basically you argue that the general public should fund a school which in return is not open to the general public. The fact that many couldn't afford an exclusive school if it was not funded by the state is neither here nor there. If the exclusion of people who are not of that faith is so important to the school being a "faith school" it shouldn't be financed by anyone other than those of that faith either.

I never argued that at all. I would have no problem with faith schools being funded by purely people of those faiths.
However, that wouldn't make it a private school.
Fact is though, I have no say over how schools are funded.

 

[Suzie and Faith]

I'm considering home-schooling Faith. If I could I would set up my own school because I believe in doing things certain ways. I guess it is important to have a choice of schools and schooling styles.

 

[lauramumof2]

I'm considering home-schooling Faith. If I could I would set up my own school because I believe in doing things certain ways. I guess it is important to have a choice of schools and schooling styles.

now that would be a proper 'faith' school.

 

[Lou]

Right i got to go.

Be back on tomorrow

 

[widowwadman]

I don't think its as exclusive as people make out though. I know of parents who have had their children christened for the sole purpose of getting into the faith school and have gotten their children into them. TBH Lou I kind of agree with Lisa and Xena, you wouldn't want Isaac to go to the faith school even if it was the best so I am not sure why it bothers you so much.

If the christening is a requirement to be allowed to enter, it is exclusive, no matter how easily you can get christened, and how many do so for just that reason. The school still asks the parents and their child to join a club, or at least to pretend to join a club. I'm not sure which one is worse, as the pretend-christening just to get into a school strikes me as mere hypocrisy and actually is completely opposed to the Christian values the school is supposed to teach.

S there is the issue of the "cult" thing with the Steiner schools, I have read a bit into it but seeing as I would ever be able to afford it thought there was no point in reading too much about it. It is concerning but I guess its the theories behind it that I agree with not the actual methods IYKWIM.

My sister went to a Steiner school. There was not so much the problem with the cult background, as her school was quite laid back in that sense and had some teachers which were quite critical of that part. The main problem I see with Steiner Schools is that their methods are so specialised that it's near impossible to switch to a "normal" school at some stage and catch up. This resulted in my sister having commute 45 km to the nearest Steiner School when my parents moved into a different area.

I think the ideaof one school for everyone to mix in and learn about eachother is great in theory but not so practical. Being different in a school is hard, and I can fully understand why someparents would send their child into a school where they can guarentee that they are being taught how they feel is best, and where there are others around them that are the same. That's not to say I agree with it but I can understand it.

I don't really see the need for schools being of one or another faith. Of course, knowledge of the different religions is important, not least because of the influence of religion on culture (literature/art), history and politics, but there's a difference between the need to be taught about religion as background to other subjects and being told to believe in one God or another. The latter, i.e. faith or belief, is an entirely private matter, and therefore should remain so, private.

Fwiw, I went to a Catholic School myself (as the token Protestant in the school, they had to accept anyone who's been baptised), which my parents had chosen because the school had a very good reputation. Since my parents are very pious they saw the faith aspect as something positive, rather than negative. Luckily, my school kept faith matters to the morning prayer, the weekly mass and RE, but didn't let it impact on its (very good) science education, so I don't have a problem with my parents having sent me there.

I don't think I would send my own child to a faith school, for the same reason we 've decided against christening him or her, as we're both atheists and would find it hypocritical. (I've never left the church officially, mostly not to hurt my dad, but then it doesn't affect me much. If I was still living in Germany, I probably would think twice, as any member of a christian denomination has to pay church tax worth 9% of taxable income.) However, we will make sure that Horatio will know all about religion and its history, so is well equipped to make up his or her own mind.

 

[Squiglet]

I am going to make a wild accusation... ... Well more of a suggestion come question.

Does anyone believe that good ofsted reports might reflect the level of absenteeism, drug abuse, teenage pregnancy? (obviously excluding primary schools I hope ). I would assume that the more children involved in these activities would reduce the amount of class time a student would have and thus reduce their grades and the overall grades of the school?

Having only been educated in Catholic schools, both private and public, they would naturally put the fear of God into you (literally ) for doing naughty things. So you could make the link as to why more Faith schools would have better ofsted results than non faith schools although there is definite exceptions to the rule.

For me, sending my children to a "good" school means not only attending a school that gives good academic results, but also provides a better opportunity for my child to flourish, reduce the temptations to skip school, take drugs or have under age sex.

My education was infused with Catholic doctrine. So much so we didn't learn about the Big Bang or have any form of sex education. But I turned to Paganism so even though I was educated in the worst possible bias, both inside and out of school, I still made my own decision in the end. All children go through a period of self evaluation at some point in their life. There were still children involved in drugs , under age sex and absenteeism in my school, there is in every school.

Having an older child and faced with the possibility that she is now going into higher education, I have more worries than most parents of children of primary age. Tia will be allowed the opportunity to have less parental/teacher control and she will have far more potentially dangerous temptations, and I have to hope that I have raised her to be a good person, strong enough to resist it... There are just 3 high schools in our area, Nº1, Nº2 and Nº3 (original eh?), to take children from the 30+ primary schools. We have to go an queue for hours in the early morning to get our child first in line for the best.. Nº1... There are children that turn to prostitution in Nº3 and it has been raided for drugs a few years back.... now if Nº1 was Catholic (and trust me I have a great distaste for Catholic religion) and Nº3 was non denominational... I would still want Tia to go to Nº1 because it has a better reputation. I think any other mother would forgo the general bias towards religion to make sure that their children attend a "good" school if the alternative might lead their kids along a dangerous, potentially fatal road...and trust that they have raised individuals and not sheep. Even though I believe and trust Tia... I know that temptations can be strong and over ride even the best education so to limit those temptations or the strength of them and give Mummy's teaching a much better chance, is altogether more important IMO..

Did that make any sense... It sounds like I'm rambling.. no wait... I'm squiglet... I always ramble