mohammed teddy bear *edit* poll added

[PinkPunch]

What I mean is you believe that god lets things happen for a reason known to him and because you have faith you don't need to be told his reasons, you just know that theres no need to question gods reason because you have faith. Blind faith without answers. You see I feel I need proof and answers, whether they are scientific or not as to the meaning of life and our purpose, but you have your faith. I believe evolution is the answer I lean towards. Like I said before to me it seems more "real".

I supose thats basically what Im saying yes and if you think about it, it requires faith in that God knows whats best for me. Sometimes things happens and I think yeah, I know why. Sometimes I don't know why but that means I have to reply 100% on him Its a learning curve, I'll always be learning from him.

I'm not having a dig. I am genuinely trying to see where you are coming from

I know, its cool

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

I have seen a man who was a druid and a witch, change the weather. I have heard a Doe talk to me. I have had psychic experiences all my life - including 2 psychic dreams that saved my life. As a witch I have performed spells for people that have worked beyond all doubt. (I believe that praying is the same as a spell but thats another topic lol.) I have seen 2 ghosts - my grandad and my cat - and I once met an angel.

Your not loopy and I don't doubt that those things happened to you. But to me, that only proves that there IS a satan and I believe thats were the power comes from.

Infact, I know (well, know of her) a lady who walked with Satan through flames, she held his hand and was not burnt at all. She eventually became a Christian but what Im saying is that we are actually in agreement. Although your saying "you've had experiences and i've had mine" which is true but the sources differ.

I know the topics moved on slightly since, but I had to pick up this point before catching up with the rest

Are you saying that the experiences ive had come from satan? If so...its an argument ive had with many many christians, many many times, and the only response I can give is that I am not a christian, therefore I do not believe in satan. He doesnt exist so he has no power here. I know the argument, ive heard it so many times..."but he does exist and has fooled you into thinking that".

Heres another example of mis-translation. The passage "shall not suffer a witch to live" was originally translated as "shall not suffer a sorceror to live". It was changed around the time of the witch trials when as you know, many many innocent women lost their lives simply for being midwives, having knowledge of herbal remedies, or being beautiful. Among other heinous crimes. The term sorceror, at the time of the original translation, was used to describe a man or woman who used deception and trickery for their own greedy needs. Such as a conman or blackwidow.

The tale of satan has also been misconstrued, and the image of a half goat half man figure carrying a pitchfork with horns, is actually based on the pagan God Pan.....who existed for ages before christianity thought up the devil. Pan was the God of music, and enchantment, and the basis for the pied piper story. He was erotic and sought pleasure among human women, but he was not evil, he was simply one of many gods. Infact the story of Pan being obsessed with earth women came before the story of Balthazar (satan) the fallen angel, who was cast from Gods side for loving humans.

In fact almost every story in the bible, new and old, has roots in pagan mythology, and its nothing short of plagiarism.

 

[Lou]

What I mean is you believe that god lets things happen for a reason known to him and because you have faith you don't need to be told his reasons, you just know that theres no need to question gods reason because you have faith. Blind faith without answers. You see I feel I need proof and answers, whether they are scientific or not as to the meaning of life and our purpose, but you have your faith. I believe evolution is the answer I lean towards. Like I said before to me it seems more "real".

I supose thats basically what Im saying yes and if you think about it, it requires faith in that God knows whats best for me. Sometimes things happens and I think yeah, I know why. Sometimes I don't know why but that means I have to reply 100% on him Its a learning curve, I'll always be learning from him.

[quote:1qvgmr92]I'm not having a dig. I am genuinely trying to see where you are coming from

I know, its cool [/quote:1qvgmr92]

Yay I learnt someting new today. I understand soooo much more where you are coming from now. Phew!

 

[PinkPunch]

Lou.

I am not a christian, therefore I do not believe in satan.

Im sure other people have said this to you but just because you don't personally believe him, doesn't mean he doesn't exist..

based on the pagan God Pan.....who existed for ages before christianity thought up the devil.

Hmm this is were we can't find common ground because God and the angels (including satan) where the only beings who existed in the beginning. "Christianity" didn't "think up" the devil.. that doesn't make sense.

 

[PinkPunch]

GG, why do you worship this God (which is one of many, so I can't see how hes "God" as such) with horns and his love for sexual pleasure?

On a personal level - why do you worship him?

 

[Squiglet]

Lou.

I am not a christian, therefore I do not believe in satan.

Im sure other people have said this to you but just because you don't personally believe him, doesn't mean he doesn't exist..

Same can be said for all the other gods though

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

Lou.

I am not a christian, therefore I do not believe in satan.

Im sure other people have said this to you but just because you don't personally believe him, doesn't mean he doesn't exist..

[quote:16y17ba4]based on the pagan God Pan.....who existed for ages before christianity thought up the devil.

Hmm this is were we can't find common ground because God and the angels (including satan) where the only beings who existed in the beginning. "Christianity" didn't "think up" the devil.. that doesn't make sense.[/quote:16y17ba4]

But it makes perfect sense....Paganism was around for centuries, thousands of years even before christianity. Thats not a theory, thats proven fact. They built stonehenge and left many other structures and relics behind, they also left behind a rich and fascinating tapestry of Gods and Goddesses, mythology and metaphor, and when the Romans decided they were heathens and had to be wiped out, they overlayed many myths and Gods with their own christian versions. Easter being the most obvious.

How long do you think christianity has been around for? Just out of interest

 

[PinkPunch]

Same can be said for all the other gods though

But there are no other true Gods

 

[Squiglet]

Same can be said for all the other gods though

But there are no other true Gods

but that's only your opinion and that of other Christians... I can assure you that there are 905 million hindu's who would beg to differ with you and has been around just a tad longer than Christianity....

 

[Freya]

WOW this is too deep and too intellectual for me now -

PP - This is where I struggle - although the word may come from God it is passed down through men - and as we know men are flawed and generally sinners (let he who is without sin cast the first stone etc.) Surely therefore there have got to be elements of the bible as it is now that are exegerated, or misconstrued??

 

[PinkPunch]

But it makes perfect sense....Paganism was around for centuries, thousands of years even before christianity.

lol but the world wasn't here before God created it, the idea of paganism wasn't even there and neither were we.

Thats not a theory, thats proven fact. They built stonehenge

Oh well.. if you had facts that proved Pagans were on the earth before Christianity itself, you should have told me that days ago and we wouldn't have needed to chat about all this

Adam walked with God, theres your first Christian. No pagans were around in the gardan of Eden. God IS creation, he IS christanity itself because hes the Christ. Nothing was before him and his angels. You can't possibly be saying that pagans came first because they put some stones together and gave it a name..

 

[PinkPunch]

but that's only your opinion and that of other Christians... I can assure you that there are 905 million hindu's who would beg to differ with you and has been around just a tad longer than Christianity....

but obivously I believe my opinion / beliefs are correct - regardless on what those 905million people think

 

[Squiglet]

Adam walked with God, theres your first Christian. No pagans were around in the gardan of Eden. God IS creation, he IS christanity itself because hes the Christ. Nothing was before him and his angels. You can't possibly be saying that pagans came first because they put some stones together and gave it a name..

There were no Christians in the Garden of Eden either ... only Jews... Adam as with Jesus was Jewish (technically) ... the word Christian "Christ - ian" is evidence of this as there were no Christians till Christ... also a Jew wrote the old testament not Christians. Christians took the old testament from the Jews... and use it to explain their history and beginnings. It was down to judesium that Christianity survived for as long as it did.. because when the Romans figured out what the Christians were really preaching about CHRIST being the son of god which went against Roman beliefs...and the Emperor... that is when the persecution of Christians began.

 

[Lou]

Now its at this point that I get confused. Who exactly is right and who is wrong. Ok so we can say we respect other peoples faith and beliefs but surely everyone can't be right. How can the world ever be at peace when we are all thinking along such different lines?

 

[PinkPunch]

There were no Christians in the Garden of Eden either ... only Jews... Adam as with Jesus was Jewish... the word Christian "Christ - ian" is evidence of this... also a Jew wrote the old testament not Christians.

How can Adam be Jewish when the word Jewish means "descent from Jacob" who wasn't even born yet..

When you say the word Christian, you are using that to describe the religion as a whole including the rituals and from your point of view, those traditions didn't happen until later on. When I say "Christian" I am talking about a born again Christian who is a follower of Christ.

Adam believed / walked / talked with God - he was a believer, or a "Christian" as we would say nowadays.

Really thought provoking now!

 

[PinkPunch]

Now its at this point that I get confused. Who exactly is right and who is wrong. Ok so we can say we respect other peoples faith and beliefs but surely everyone can't be right.

Thats absolutely spot on.. we need to really search for answers because the truth is out there and many people claim to have the truth. Me included but I believe I do know the truth and Im not scared to say it lol and I mean that with all graciousness.

 

[Lou]

You girls really know your stuff. I'm very impressed....I'm sat here on the edge of my seat waiting for the next post!

I'm loving this thread

 

[Squiglet]

There were no Christians in the Garden of Eden either ... only Jews... Adam as with Jesus was Jewish... the word Christian "Christ - ian" is evidence of this... also a Jew wrote the old testament not Christians.

How can Adam be Jewish when the word Jewish means "descent from Jacob" who wasn't even born yet..

When you say the word Christian, you are using that to describe the religion as a whole including the rituals and from your point of view, those traditions didn't happen until later on. When I say "Christian" I am talking about a born again Christian who is a follower of Christ.

Adam believed / walked / talked with God - he was a believer, or a "Christian" as we would say nowadays.

Really thought provoking now!

Indeed...

How can Adam be Christian when the word Christian means follower of Christ.. not follower of God. Because some Christians.. and not all... say Christ is God... does not mean Adam was a follower of Christ... it means that Christ was the representation of God on earth at the time of his existance. The word Christ was not known to the people of the old testament and as you have said that in order to go to heaven we must accept Jesus into our lives AND that he died for our sins... Adam died thousands of years before Christ died for anybodies sins and therefore could not accept Christ had died for his sins and by that interpretation of the belief of accepting Christ as you have stated means that Adam would have been unable to enter heaven because he was sinful...

Phew... I have a headache now..

 

[Lou]

Now its at this point that I get confused. Who exactly is right and who is wrong. Ok so we can say we respect other peoples faith and beliefs but surely everyone can't be right.

Thats absolutely spot on.. we need to really search for answers because the truth is out there and many people claim to have the truth. Me included but I believe I do know the truth and Im not scared to say it lol and I mean that with all graciousness.

Good on you. You shouldn't feel afraid to speak whats in your head and your heart. None of us should. Its when people close their mind to others that it gets confrontational I think. You talk about your faith in a non threatening way. I can listen to someone who isn't being self righteous

 

[PinkPunch]

But "Christ" and "God" are the same thing, so although Christian means follower of Christ and Jesus wasn't born yet.. Jesus was God in the human form. Obivously Adam wouldn't have said "Im a Christian" but I use that term nowadays and we all know what it means.

In the old testament before Christ came, people went to "paradise". They went to a place called Hades which had paradise and torment. People could not yet enter heaven until Jesus died on the cross and because he died for us, we can now go directly to heaven to be with him because we became sin for us and we no longer need to be separated from God.