mohammed teddy bear *edit* poll added

[glitzyglamgirl]

I think everyone has to decide for themselve what they believe in and it's very wrong to force your views on anyone else. We're all here to learn and we can only do that for ourselves

very well said

personally there is too much grey in the world, for things to be totally black and white... Every day we learn something new about the world we live in and whats there to say that although we might not currently believe in something that our opinions might change in the future. We should be open to the possibilities.. to be so close minded.. to say one opinion is true, that all others are incorrect and that's that, denies you the possibility to mature and grow in a spiritual sense, to become more than what you are... I feel very sorry for people trapped in that mind set, because they can never truly appreciate the world around them. Its a big world and there are many things yet unexplained...and that's quite a wondrous thing to be a part of.. sometimes we just loose track and don't appreciate that.

A agree completely, a day is a worthwhile day if you have learned something new...whether thats something about yourself or a loved one, or something going on in the world you didnt know about, or even how snails pro-create We are very lucky to be open minded and free enough to be even having this discussion! I think the more we enquire and learn, the more we grow, and part of that journey is allowing ourselves the freedom to change our minds now and again. I know ive changed my mind many times over the years because I have learned something that meant my previous beliefs were challanged.

Slightly off topic (isnt all this thread off topic lol) but I learned the other day something I couldnt believe I wasnt aware of.....we currently have robotic probes on the surface of every planet in our solar system except for pluto! How mad is that!!! I had no idea we were getting so far and wonder how many people actually realise we are on the verge of something, in our childrens lifetime can you imagine what we could achieve???

 

[Lou]

I think everyone has to decide for themselve what they believe in and it's very wrong to force your views on anyone else. We're all here to learn and we can only do that for ourselves

very well said

personally there is too much grey in the world, for things to be totally black and white... Every day we learn something new about the world we live in and whats there to say that although we might not currently believe in something that our opinions might change in the future. We should be open to the possibilities.. to be so close minded.. to say one opinion is true, that all others are incorrect and that's that, denies you the possibility to mature and grow in a spiritual sense, to become more than what you are... I feel very sorry for people trapped in that mind set, because they can never truly appreciate the world around them. Its a big world and there are many things yet unexplained...and that's quite a wondrous thing to be a part of.. sometimes we just loose track and don't appreciate that.

A agree completely, a day is a worthwhile day if you have learned something new...whether thats something about yourself or a loved one, or something going on in the world you didnt know about, or even how snails pro-create We are very lucky to be open minded and free enough to be even having this discussion! I think the more we enquire and learn, the more we grow, and part of that journey is allowing ourselves the freedom to change our minds now and again. I know ive changed my mind many times over the years because I have learned something that meant my previous beliefs were challanged.

Slightly off topic (isnt all this thread off topic lol) but I learned the other day something I couldnt believe I wasnt aware of.....we currently have robotic probes on the surface of every planet in our solar system except for pluto! How mad is that!!! I had no idea we were getting so far and wonder how many people actually realise we are on the verge of something, in our childrens lifetime can you imagine what we could achieve???

Thats why I was making the point the we are lucky enough to have freedom of speech, the freedom to choose our religion and the freedom to change our opinions and views but there are still in this day and age some countries, religions and cultures that do not allow people such freedoms

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

I think everyone has to decide for themselve what they believe in and it's very wrong to force your views on anyone else. We're all here to learn and we can only do that for ourselves

very well said

personally there is too much grey in the world, for things to be totally black and white... Every day we learn something new about the world we live in and whats there to say that although we might not currently believe in something that our opinions might change in the future. We should be open to the possibilities.. to be so close minded.. to say one opinion is true, that all others are incorrect and that's that, denies you the possibility to mature and grow in a spiritual sense, to become more than what you are... I feel very sorry for people trapped in that mind set, because they can never truly appreciate the world around them. Its a big world and there are many things yet unexplained...and that's quite a wondrous thing to be a part of.. sometimes we just loose track and don't appreciate that.

A agree completely, a day is a worthwhile day if you have learned something new...whether thats something about yourself or a loved one, or something going on in the world you didnt know about, or even how snails pro-create We are very lucky to be open minded and free enough to be even having this discussion! I think the more we enquire and learn, the more we grow, and part of that journey is allowing ourselves the freedom to change our minds now and again. I know ive changed my mind many times over the years because I have learned something that meant my previous beliefs were challanged.

Slightly off topic (isnt all this thread off topic lol) but I learned the other day something I couldnt believe I wasnt aware of.....we currently have robotic probes on the surface of every planet in our solar system except for pluto! How mad is that!!! I had no idea we were getting so far and wonder how many people actually realise we are on the verge of something, in our childrens lifetime can you imagine what we could achieve???

Thats why I was making the point the we are lucky enough to have freedom of speech, the freedom to choose our religion and the freedom to change our opinions and views but there are still in this day and age some countries, religions and cultures that do not allow people such freedoms

We do, but not total freedom. If I said I was a Satanist to everyone I met I wouldnt be welcome in most places before long (even though Satanism isnt what most people think it is....but thats besides the point as im not a satanist anyway lol)

But its more freedom than most other countries, USA included, so thats a good start.

The thing is though, freedom to believe doesnt only come from leaders giving us that freedom, it also comes from society accepting those beliefs as valid, and until society accepts that all beliefs are valid then we will never have total freedom.

 

[Squiglet]

Slightly off topic (isnt all this thread off topic lol) but I learned the other day something I couldnt believe I wasnt aware of.....we currently have robotic probes on the surface of every planet in our solar system except for pluto! How mad is that!!! I had no idea we were getting so far and wonder how many people actually realise we are on the verge of something, in our childrens lifetime can you imagine what we could achieve???

Pluto's not a planet any more No serious, it was reclassified to a dwarf planet in 2006 and is part of the Kuiper belt which is a ring of rocks etc circling our solar system left over from the creation of the solar system. Seriously.... look ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto

 

[Squiglet]

The thing is though, freedom to believe doesnt only come from leaders giving us that freedom, it also comes from society accepting those beliefs as valid, and until society accepts that all beliefs are valid then we will never have total freedom.

well said the validity of a particular view comes from an individual person and as long as that view isn't detrimental to the existance or well being of another individual then it should be accepted.

The time when someones beliefs or views cause an individual to act in a way which would impact negatively, another persons life.. child abuse, suicide bombings etc, that is when these actions need to be stopped.

At the end of the day, the views are not what harm a person, its how someone acts on those views.

Nothing offends me... people views or thoughts don't offend me (I was always raised with the retoric of sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me.) ... but when some acts on these thoughts and does something that negatively impacts my life, untrue gossip for example... that is when I will be offended. Although with gossip I just ignore the person from whom it started and wipe them from my life..

 

[Lou]

The thing is though, freedom to believe doesnt only come from leaders giving us that freedom, it also comes from society accepting those beliefs as valid, and until society accepts that all beliefs are valid then we will never have total freedom.

well said the validity of a particular view comes from an individual person and as long as that view isn't detrimental to the existance or well being of another individual then it should be accepted.

The time when someones beliefs or views cause an individual to act in a way which would impact negatively, another persons life.. child abuse, suicide bombings etc, that is when these actions need to be stopped.

At the end of the day, the views are not what harm a person, its how someone acts on those views.

Nothing offends me... people views or thoughts don't offend me (I was always raised with the retoric of sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me.) ... but when some acts on these thoughts and does something that negatively impacts my life, untrue gossip for example... that is when I will be offended. Although with gossip I just ignore the person from whom it started and wipe them from my life..

I'm easily offended because I have the shortest temper and asolutely no patience Its something I'm working on. I do like to think I am an open minded good natured person though

 

[Squiglet]

I'm easily offended because I have the shortest temper and asolutely no patience Its something I'm working on. I do like to think I am an open minded good natured person though

Well having read a lot of your posts I can see the short temper but in general i would say you are a good natured person... after all if you weren't you wouldn't be the principle person quoted in the Quote of the day thread Also the ability to admit our short falls is a very noble quality I find in people.

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

I'm the same Lou, it gets confusing....I am adamant that everyone has the right to believe what they believe, think what they think etc, but if anyone disagrees with me I have to think very carefully about how I reply as I can bark without thinking sometimes Hypocrite? Moi? Nah

My favourite quote is by Churchill...

"I dont agree with what you are saying, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it"

Squig...the pluto thing....well that would be why there isnt on there then wouldnt it

But you do learn something new everyday!

 

[PinkPunch]

I have read about the God Gamble, the stance that some people take is well you never know there might be a God, so its worth praying just in case, which is all well and good and absolutely no harm in that lol, however I have to see (or feel) something to believe it.

I totally agree.. saying "not sure if there is God but i'll pray anyway" is a very wishy washy way to live I would encourage anyone with that view to search for the answer.. I couldn't live like that personally. I need to know "why" im here, whats my purpose, who made me, what does the future hold for me etc etc. I think we all should

Also, I don't know why we need to keep saying "everyone has a right to believe what they want" because thats obivous, of course you can I would never stand in anyones way of that. But we can at least talk about what we do believe in.

Some people are happy to live with the attitude of "you believe what you want, I believe what I want and we'll all live happily ever after" but from my point of view, I absolutely love telling people about Jesus and how he came to save them. I want people to go to heaven, even if they hate me for saying it or fall out with me..

I have to say ladies, I loved this thread and the positive attitude we all have towards each other It could have went so badly lol. I really respect those who know what they believe in, at least you have made a choice and made your own descisions in life.

to you all.

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

aw bless you

Your right of course, we all should be dedicating some of our lives to seeking our own truths. I love Socrates, he once said "an unexamined life is not worth living" and I agree with him. I know people who are seemingly happy to just go about their day to day lives never questioning anything, never asking questions about the universe and our role in it, never even wondering whats out there.....and I wonder are they really happy?

I dont think there is anything wrong with telling people about what you believe, and PP you do it in a way which is very respectful and certainly not trying to force your views on anyone, it shows what a lovely person you are to want to share your happiness but also respecting the boundaries

 

[Lou]

Sometimes I wish I did have a god to believe in and pray to but I just don't. Whether thats due to the way I've been brought up or the things that have happened to me so far in my life who know's?, I just don't feel anything inside religiously. I love churches, they are magical and have a feeling of peace and goodness about them. I really love cathedrals and think they are beautiful but thats where my interest starts and ends I'm afraid

Shame really, maybe I'm missing out on something that could be really wonderful? oooo I don't know I just feel like I'm too 'realistic' to believe if that makes sense?

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

Sometimes I wish I did have a god to believe in and pray to but I just don't. Whether thats due to the way I've been brought up or the things that have happened to me so far in my life who know's?, I just don't feel anything inside religiously. I love churches, they are magical and have a feeling of peace and goodness about them. I really love cathedrals and think they are beautiful but thats where my interest starts and ends I'm afraid

Shame really, maybe I'm missing out on something that could be really wonderful? oooo I don't know I just feel like I'm too 'realistic' to believe if that makes sense?

Makes perfect sense...afterall you can only believe what you actually believe to be true. Theres no point trying to believe something that doesnt feel right to you.

 

[HappyAlice]

I need to know "why" im here, whats my purpose, who made me, what does the future hold for me etc etc. I think we all should

I've resigned myself to the fact that while I am alive on earth I will not know the answers to these questions, and I honestly don't know how anyone can say they are 100% sure of the answers. It's natural to want to know and I'm sure every human wonders these things, and I think this is why religion exists - it's a way of filling those blanks. I would rather leave the questions unanswered for now because there is no way anyone can be sure of anything, no matter how strongly you 'believe'.

 

[PinkPunch]

Sometimes I wish I did have a god to believe in and pray to but I just don't. Whether thats due to the way I've been brought up or the things that have happened to me so far in my life who know's?, I just don't feel anything inside religiously. I love churches, they are magical and have a feeling of peace and goodness about them. I really love cathedrals and think they are beautiful but thats where my interest starts and ends I'm afraid

Shame really, maybe I'm missing out on something that could be really wonderful? oooo I don't know I just feel like I'm too 'realistic' to believe if that makes sense?

I know what your saying but thats what it means to have "faith" though. On face value, you think its believeing in someone you can't see, it doesn't seem possible. But once you repent to God and give him your life, it all becomes clear. You experience him in your life and that IS the evidence that he is among us but unseen.

I hope you don't mind me suggesting this but why not take 5mins just to sit in a quiet place and just talk to God.. just tell him why you find it hard to believe, tel him your doubts. Im not a looney, honestly (lol) but if you are searching for God, he will reveal himself but you have to take that leap of faith.

PP's sermon over...

 

[HappyAlice]

What is meant by god revealing himself to you?
Do you mean in a dream?

 

[PinkPunch]

and I honestly don't know how anyone can say they are 100% sure of the answers.

Thats exactly what I'm saying though. I have no doubts at all. If it was the other way around.. if I was unsure of these things but you were certain and had experienced God.. no doubt, you would want to tell me! and thats what im trying to do

It's natural to want to know and I'm sure every human wonders these things, and I think this is why religion exists - it's a way of filling those blanks

. You've hit the nail on the head there. See, I believe everyone is made with a "God shaped vaccum" so to speak. If you think about, God made us to love him and ONLY he can fill our voids and give us true contentment. I think everyones seeks something to worship, we see it everywhere! We see people trying to make themselves happy with material things etc but nothing compares to Gods love and knowledge that he walks with you. So I agree with you one this point, I think thats why "religion" exists - everyone is seeking true contentment and its in us to worship.. I just think people are worshipping false Gods if it isn't the Lord

I would rather leave the questions unanswered for now because there is no way anyone can be sure of anything, no matter how strongly you 'believe'.

I disagree.. your uncertainty shouldn't be a measure for other peopls faith I know what your saying though, your not 100% certain, how can anyone else be.. but I am certain and you might not believe me but its true!

 

[Squiglet]

I need to know "why" im here, whats my purpose, who made me, what does the future hold for me etc etc. I think we all should

I've resigned myself to the fact that while I am alive on earth I will not know the answers to these questions, and I honestly don't know how anyone can say they are 100% sure of the answers. It's natural to want to know and I'm sure every human wonders these things, and I think this is why religion exists - it's a way of filling those blanks. I would rather leave the questions unanswered for now because there is no way anyone can be sure of anything, no matter how strongly you 'believe'.

Humans, as a species, are not old enough or wise enough to deal with the truth yet.. which is why we don't know everything. And why not everything is revealed to us. Not even "God" has revealed everything to his followers...

If you look back through history, most discoveries, big ones like the Earth not being flat, were accepted quite badly. Although we were ready there were still people who were not and it wasn't until much later that these new discoveries were accepted.

People are scared of what they do not know and do not understand. Death being one of the ultimate things people are afraid of... religion, faith and belief are used to fill this void.. this unknown... and while every religion claims their theories as the "truth" in actuality... until you have walked the road of death, you do not truly "know".

You can read a million books on how to raise a child, have all the ins and outs explained to you, but until you actually take those steps you do not know what it is like.

Life is very much the same.

 

[PinkPunch]

What is meant by god revealing himself to you?
Do you mean in a dream?

There won't be any puffs of smoke or flashing lights.. but if you are genuinely wanting to know him, if you talk to him, he will show himself to you. When I say reveal, I mean he will let himself be known to you one way or another. Everyone has their own personal experiences with God.. he doesn't just appear to everyone through a dream for example.. its hard to explain but you "feel" him.

Talk to him and even if you say "Lord, I don't know if you truely exist but I want to know you more and have a personal replationship with you" its not a magical prayer.. just talk to him.

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

I like the idea of a god shaped vacuum, and agree to an extent - but I prefer to think of it as a spiritual vacuum. I really do believe that all faith and spirituality is about the same thing...we just call it different names, give it a different personality, even fight over its true nature. But squig is right....we just may not be ready for the truth yet. Perhaps it is something science can one day explain, quantum physics isnt far off imo, and I dont think its unrealistic to predict that in the next 500 years we will have a completely new idea of the world, eachother, and what it is that fills that spiritual vacuum.

I have felt my God. I know her

By that I dont mean the same monotheistic Gods that the mainstream religions worship, or the many Gods and Goddesses of more ancient religions either, I take a more pantheistic approach to God, believing that there isnt one all powerful being thats external to us, but that we are all part of the same thing. We are made of the same stuff as the screen you are looking at now...when you break it all down. We are made of the same stuff that the trees and seas are made of, everything is made of the same stuff. Now you could take that one of two ways.......either we all came from the same source and are controlled by that source, or we ARE all the source and WE have the power to be Godly and do Godly things.

Its all about what you believe at the end of the day, and if you believe you can be a good person and do good things without having to answer to some higher force.......then isnt that Godly?

 

[PinkPunch]

Its all about what you believe at the end of the day, and if you believe you can be a good person and do good things without having to answer to some higher force.......then isnt that Godly?

Its just called "good living" which might make you feel good about yourself like you are doing something good with your life, but it won't get people into heaven. Of course its nice to do good deeds and it does feel nice, but we are all sinners at the end of the day and we alone will never be "pure" enough to enter heaven on our own merits.