mohammed teddy bear *edit* poll added

[uncle_bens]

Why did God look away from Jesus when he was dying, if thats his son, why would he let that terrible thing happen? Why does God have to let his son die, and make his blood account for our sins and so on...Why cant he just forgive us for believing in him? I just dont understand. And if Jesus died, didnt god die cox the trinity thing...my brains hurting

 

[PinkPunch]

Doesn't it say in the bible that the Earth is the centre of the universe? To me this would not be the word of an all knowing infalliable higher being but rather a unintelligent explanation by a lesser race.

Sorry but it doesn't say that anywhere in the bible

 

[PinkPunch]

btw, it was Ptolemy who said that (alexandrian astronomer and mathematician). But none of those astronomers were right in their day (Copernicus, Aristotle, Eudoxus, or Callippus before Ptolemy).

Just goes to show.. these so called "science man of their day" can be wrong too.. it gets you thinking..

 

[Misslarue]

Doesn't it say in the bible that the Earth is the centre of the universe? To me this would not be the word of an all knowing infalliable higher being but rather a unintelligent explanation by a lesser race.

Sorry but it doesn't say that anywhere in the bible

Sorry if I am wrong.

............runs off to investigate!

 

[Freya]

Absolutely fascinating discussion.


PP I admire your faith. Although I believe in God (as stated before) I believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. I though Adam and Eve was kind of like a parable to explain how the earth came to be. Otherwise Adam and Eve had 2 sons so where did the rest of the population come from? I don't see why these theories have to be mutually exclusive?

Can I also ask PP - genuinly interested in this - what are your views on babies who die without being baptised or being able to accept Jesus - what do you think happens to them?

I think you are doing a great job in answering people's questions BTW

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

The evidence for the big bang is also astounding

lol Im sorry but I strongly diagree on this by a mile!

[quote:3nhysl4z]they can actually hear it now, and it wont be long till we can see it.

so.. they still can't "see" it then? In other words, they haven't really figured it out yet? Let me know when you find that star that has yet to appear.. although, if it takes 30,000 years i'll be dead...

how much circumstantial evidence (let alone solid proof) is there for God?

Im sure you realise, believing in God takes faith and Im no trying to deceive anyone is thinking anything different. However, I have seen miracles in peoples lives, things that are "impossible" for example. Until you put your faith in God, you can't experience the presense of God.

Hmm its a bit like you saying "I don't believe Austrailia exists" and im saying "but I have been there".. until your eyes have seen it, you don't want to believe unless you had faith in what I was saying.. am i making sense sorry if im not [/quote:3nhysl4z]

I think you mis-understood me. We CAN see stars 30,000 light years away, we're not waiting for it to happen, we see them. Maybe not in our night sky visible to the naked eye, but through telescopes etc we can see for eons now. We know as fact what the speed of light is, we know how long it takes for the light from a star to reach us, therefore we know that star has been in existence for 30,000 years or more.

I dont expect any "proof" of God to come anytime soon, and I realise it is a matter of faith. In fact I envy the faith you have, I wish I could believe in something so passionately.....but then I enjoy having these kinds of debates which we wouldnt be having if everyone believed.

What if I told you that I have experienced miracles myself? That I have had prophetic dreams? That I have experienced things in life that go beyond the explainable. Yet I dont believe in God and never have. I do believe somewhat in a higher power, one that we are all connected to and a part of...but there is no need for blind faith or ritual...it is simply by living and being open minded that we find it, and then we take from it what we wish. Call it our higher selves, spirits. The universal energy. I guess what im trying to say, is that everyone...regardless of religion and faith...can experience miracles, can experience something more than the physical.

 

[uncle_bens]

PP is blanking my questions

 

[Freya]

[
I dont expect any "proof" of God to come anytime soon, and I realise it is a matter of faith. In fact I envy the faith you have, I wish I could believe in something so passionately.....but then I enjoy having these kinds of debates which we wouldnt be having if everyone believed.


I agree with this - I think it takes a certain strength and passion to believe in something so passionately. I also think you must be very strong as you seem quite aware that not everyone feels the same as you so to be so open must take some courage (if you see what i mean - still as waffley as ever )

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

I agree with this - I think it takes a certain strength and passion to believe in something so passionately. I also think you must be very strong as you seem quite aware that not everyone feels the same as you so to be so open must take some courage (if you see what i mean - still as waffley as ever )

True.. very true.. but you can only believe what sits right in your mind, what you actually believe to be true....and sometimes that takes strength too as you may have been brought up in a religious family or live in a religious community. To stand up and say you dont believe something can often be just as hard. It works both ways I think

 

[PinkPunch]

Sorry teen, I will answer you but its a huge question you asked lol

Otherwise Adam and Eve had 2 sons so where did the rest of the population come from? I don't see why these theories have to be mutually exclusive?

Its no great secret, Adam lived until he was 930 (eve's age isn't recorded) and they had more than 2 sons lol So brothers and sisters had babies to populate the earth.

Can I also ask PP - genuinly interested in this - what are your views on babies who die without being baptised or being able to accept Jesus - what do you think happens to them?

Let me take Davids life as an example. He had a baby that died and he knew he couoldn't bring the baby back again BUT he knew he would see the baby again..

"While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me" (2 Samuel 12:22-23). Hes clearly is aware he will see the baby in heaven.

There are a few other scriptures which point in this direction. A baby/infant is unable to ask for forgiveness and is beyond understanding so God cannot judge them. So to answer your question, I do think they go to heaven.

 

[PinkPunch]

Someone mentioned infant baptism but I can't see the post now....... sorry.

But in short, it doesn't say anywhere in the bible that we should baptise/christen infants - they are too young to make that descision for themselves.

 

[PinkPunch]

Why did God look away from Jesus when he was dying,

As mentioned, Jesus "became" sin for us, we can't possibly know what this invloved but God cannot look upon sin and he couldn't even look at Jesus because Jesus was taking on all the sins of the world.

Why cant he just forgive us for believing in him?

But as you know, so many people DON'T believe.

And if Jesus died, didnt god die cox the trinity thing...my brains hurting

Just like us, we have a body and a spirit.. so when Jesus died, this body died BUT his spirit (God) didn't - everyones spirit is eternal.

 

[Squiglet]

Someone mentioned infant baptism but I can't see the post now....... sorry.

But in short, it doesn't say anywhere in the bible that we should baptise/christen infants - they are too young to make that descision for themselves.

Ooo that might have been me...

According to Catholic religion anyone that dies before they receive the rite of baptism go to hell, babies specifically go to Purgatory (one of the levels of hell)... But that really is very old Catholic Dogma. Its based on the fact that we are all born with "original sin" the sin of Adam defying God... and the only way to rectify this sin is to be baptised...

In 1 John 5:6-7, the Bible says, "This is He who came by water and blood-Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."

So we know that by baptism all sin is washed from us... and is accepting God so to speak... if babies are too young to do this, and they cannot accept Jesus into their lives, then they too must go to hell..

 

[PinkPunch]

So we know that by baptism all sin is washed from us... and is accepting God so to speak... if babies are too young to do this, and they cannot accept Jesus into their lives, then they too must go to hell..

Nope, nope, nope!!

See my above answer about babies and where they go

But as for infant baptism, its pointless basically. What is baptism for a start? Its a public expression of your faith and your descision to follow Christ in your life. The water symbolise the washing of sins, when you go back it symbolises death, and when you come up, it symbolises new life! Its not a magical thing where you instantly become a follower.

So how can a baby know this? A sprinkle of water doesn't put babies in heaven and indeed, when they grow up, it doesn't mean they will go to heaven either. Everyone needs to make a person choice which you can only do when you are older.

Again, there is NO scripture which tells us to baptise children.

So when a child grows up to accept Christ, God commands that they be baptised. Having been baptised myself, I found it a very close and persoanl experience and it made me happy to do as God asked.. regardless of it being just symbols.

 

[PinkPunch]

True.. very true.. but you can only believe what sits right in your mind, what you actually believe to be true....and sometimes that takes strength too as you may have been brought up in a religious family or live in a religious community. To stand up and say you dont believe something can often be just as hard. It works both ways I think

It does, yeah. But I think everyone reaches a point in their lives when they think, hang on a minute.. what do "i" believe.. is what I have been taught the right way?

At least, I hope people do

 

[Kimbo]

wow this is getting really interesting now!
i don't know anything about religion but this is great!

 

[Squiglet]

So we know that by baptism all sin is washed from us... and is accepting God so to speak... if babies are too young to do this, and they cannot accept Jesus into their lives, then they too must go to hell..

Nope, nope, nope!!

See my above answer about babies and where they go

But as for infant baptism, its pointless basically. What is baptism for a start? Its a public expression of your faith and your descision to follow Christ in your life. The water symbolise the washing of sins, when you go back it symbolises death, and when you come up, it symbolises new life! Its not a magical thing where you instantly become a follower.

So how can a baby know this? A sprinkle of water doesn't put babies in heaven and indeed, when they grow up, it doesn't mean they will go to heaven either. Everyone needs to make a person choice which you can only do when you are older.

Again, there is NO scripture which tells us to baptise children.

So when a child grows up to accept Christ, God commands that they be baptised. Having been baptised myself, I found it a very close and persoanl experience and it made me happy to do as God asked.. regardless of it being just symbols.

I just want to point out that I DON'T believe that babies go to hell if not baptised... I've never believed that I was being more of a devils advocate ... I am pagan after all

The bible also has many things in it that don't make any sense.... why do we have to accept some passages of text and not others... what makes one passage any more "valid" than the others, if we still accept that God guided these men to write the bible. Just for example...

In Psalm 51:8 God breaks our bones when we sin .
Psalm 51:8 It teaches that broken bones rejoice
Psalm 51:7 Our sins are purged with hyssop not through the acceptance of Christ . (Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.)
Psalm 58:3 It says that babies speak and tell lies as soon as they are born (The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.)
Job 1:21 It says that men go back into their mother's womb
Psalm 51:5 It says the substance of unborn babies is sinful (Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.)

These are all figurative expressions, and to interpret them in their literal sense is to teach nonsense and what every person knows to be impossible and contrary to reality.

But what I am trying to say is that you cannot take one thing and not another....

 

[uncle_bens]

seriously cool answers, and this discussion i sso peaceful and nice! But i can't believe in something which has an amount of doubt in it tho, but its good to talk

 

[Squiglet]

Ok Ok... I have a really cool question now....






How did a topic on why a teddy bear was called Muhammad, turn into this conversation...

 

[uncle_bens]

Lol everyone had their view and we floated along lol maybe we shud make a new thread coz the pages are getting loooonnnngggg