mohammed teddy bear *edit* poll added

[PinkPunch]

Its why he was so afraid before his death, because of the pain he would have to suffer... because like any man, he was afraid of his own mortality...

Thats not what I believe

Jesus obivously knew what pain he was about to go through, thats true. He was all knowing after all but became man for us. Also, Jesus didn't die an ordinary death, when he died he took on the whole sins of the world, mine and yours. Its hard for us to understand obivously but I do believe thats what happened.

Jesus became sin for us and because of this, God has to look away from Jesus. Thats why we read this verse.. 45 Now from the sixth hour darkness came upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46 Then about the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani; this means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

 

[PinkPunch]

I just have a question about the whole creation/world being 6000 years old theory. When I was at uni I took an archaeology module and learnt about various dating techniques that were able to date things like wood, clay and rock to way back before 6000 years. I just wondered how people who believed in the creation theory viewed this?

Absolutely no dating technique is 100% accurate and I challenge anyone to tell me otherwise. Unfortunatly, evolution is seen as fact although it has never been proven and it is even taught in schools.

Equally, there are Christian scientists who can disprove these theories and techniques. As we mentioned earlier in the thread, you can't take other peoples word as fact, you need to research / find out for youself.

 

[Squiglet]

Its why he was so afraid before his death, because of the pain he would have to suffer... because like any man, he was afraid of his own mortality...

Thats not what I believe

Jesus obivously knew what pain he was about to go through, thats true. He was all knowing after all but became man for us. Also, Jesus didn't die an ordinary death, when he died he took on the whole sins of the world, mine and yours. Its hard for us to understand obivously but I do believe thats what happened.

Jesus became sin for us and because of this, God has to look away from Jesus. Thats why we read this verse.. 45 Now from the sixth hour darkness came upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46 Then about the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani; this means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

The bible speaks greatly of the suffering Jesus went through in the Garden of Gethsemane... the reasons behind this are only know to Jesus, but what is written by the disciples shows Jesus suffered very much in Gethsemane (Mark 14:50, Luke 22:54-62). Luke tells us that drops of blood fell from Jesus' body. This was a crisis for Jesus. Jesus had always obeyed God his Father. And Jesus still wanted to obey God. But now this meant the cross with its great pain and shame.

But, for Jesus, the cross was not merely a place of pain and death. Jesus was perfect; he never sinned. But on the cross, Jesus would have to take, on himself, the sin of the world. He would have wanted to avoid this especially, but he could not. Here is his prayer:

Matthew 26:39 'My Father, if it is possible, do not let this happen. However, I want to do the things that you desire. I choose not to do the things that I desire.'

But there was no other way. The cross was the only way that God could forgive our sin. Jesus was the only one who could pay for all our sin. Only Jesus could give us the power to LIVE like him.

Again... the bible shows that its a matter of how you interpret the words... not so much as to what they mean.. Maybe God never intended Christians to take the bible as an exact meaning but a set of metaphores, of moral guidelines..

I personally find the Creation theory implausible.. but that's just my belief... I find a lot in the old testament as implausible... but by todays standards, think about it... I lot of the things we take for granted... microwaves, washing machines, would have seen like magic to ancient people... We would have been devil worshippers... so maybe their interpretation of events might have been slightly narrow minded...

 

[elaine22]

You're quite right, they're not 100% accurate. It's true that carbon-14 dating becomes less accurate the older the object; other methods are not always suitable for dating an archaeological site alone. But still, carbon-14 dating is reliable within the last 40,000 years or so, and potassium-argon dating is even more reliable as its isotope has a longer half-life than carbon-14.

Equally, there are Christian scientists who can disprove these theories and techniques. As we mentioned earlier in the thread, you can't take other peoples word as fact, you need to research / find out for youself

.

To be fair, I did study several books on this and wrote essays on the reliability of these methods - it would be hard for me to actually investigate for myself.

 

[PinkPunch]

But still, carbon-14 dating is reliable within the last 40,000 years or so,

Thats what we are told anyway.. but how can we know for certain? what do we have to compare it with?

To be fair, I did study several books on this and wrote essays on the reliability of these methods - it would be hard for me to actually investigate for myself.

Sorry if it seemed directed at you, im just thinking about previous posts and how important it is to do this kind of study and its fantastic that you have.

You know what they say.. those who stand for nothing, fall for everything

 

[PinkPunch]

I personally find the Creation theory implausible.. but that's just my belief... I find a lot in the old testament as implausible... but by todays standards, think about it... I lot of the things we take for granted... microwaves, washing machines, would have seen like magic to ancient people... We would have been devil worshippers... so maybe their interpretation of events might have been slightly narrow minded...

I can see what you mean but at the end of the day, they didn't have microwaves.. and if they did, it would have been because they invented it.

 

[lella]

I just have a question about the whole creation/world being 6000 years old theory. When I was at uni I took an archaeology module and learnt about various dating techniques that were able to date things like wood, clay and rock to way back before 6000 years. I just wondered how people who believed in the creation theory viewed this?

Absolutely no dating technique is 100% accurate and I challenge anyone to tell me otherwise. Unfortunatly, evolution is seen as fact although it has never been proven and it is even taught in schools.

Equally, there are Christian scientists who can disprove these theories and techniques. As we mentioned earlier in the thread, you can't take other peoples word as fact, you need to research / find out for youself.

Im loving reading this debate. You say that evolution hasnt been proven and is taught in schools. You could say the same of religion, the existence of God hasnt been proven. But this is taught in schools.

 

[PinkPunch]

Im loving reading this debate. You say that evolution hasnt been proven and is taught in schools. You could say the same of religion, the existence of God hasnt been proven. But this is taught in schools.

Fair point but in school you are taught what the bible says, not what to believe.. in fact, you learn about all religions now. In evolution you are taught this as fact. I know a girl who put on her GCSE paper "scientists say that the earth is bla bla" and got marked down for it. It wasn't even enough to acknowledge that this is what is thought to have happened.. she had to say it as fact - in my opinion thats wrong.

 

[Squiglet]

Im loving reading this debate. You say that evolution hasnt been proven and is taught in schools. You could say the same of religion, the existence of God hasnt been proven. But this is taught in schools.

Fair point but in school you are taught what the bible says, not what to believe.. in fact, you learn about all religions now. In evolution you are taught this as fact. I know a girl who put on her GCSE paper "scientists say that the earth is bla bla" and got marked down for it. It wasn't even enough to acknowledge that this is what is thought to have happened.. she had to say it as fact - in my opinion thats wrong.

Unless you go to Catholic school.. We even had sex ed removed from our curriculum (after all we weren't supposed to use contraception anyways ) and our religious education was quite encompassing.. mind you they took it more as we all believed in it anyways... sort of stance... rather than explain the beliefs. My RE GCSE paper was completely to do with Catholicism and we never learnt about any other religion.

Admittedly though we didn't learn evolution theory either looking back it was probably religion based..

 

[elaine22]

Absolute dating methods like Carbon-14 dating aren't done by comparing things (that's relative dating and only useful for putting things in a sequence) but based on the fact that organic materials absorb the carbon-14 isotope whilst alive (from the atmosphere into plants, then gradually up the food chain). When the material dies, it stops absorbing carbon-14, which then begins to break down to nitrogen-14. It takes 5730 years for half of this to break down, and so scientists can calculate the proportion of carbon there is left in the specimen and thus how long it has been since it died.
Sorry thats a really bad explanation (don't have my books here)

Obviously it's not a perfect method and things can affect it which is why you can't go using it to date things that are millions of years old. There are other methods though but I won't go on about them too lol

 

[PinkPunch]

Yeah, its different now though squig since we live with so many other cultures.

Its like a full time job for me on this thread today

 

[Squiglet]

Yeah, its different now though squig since we live with so many other cultures.

Its like a full time job for me on this thread today

I'm going out now pressie shopping.. so I'll give you a break

 

[PinkPunch]

It takes 5730 years for half of this to break down

How do you know?

 

[PinkPunch]

I'm going out now pressie shopping.. so I'll give you a break

Come back to me though

I've only bought 1 present so far

 

[mrs h]

This question is for pinkpunch why does God let bad things happen to good people?

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

wow, I disappear for a while and it takes another interesting turn

The mountains of scientific evidence for evolution are astounding, so I will happily call it fact. Whether you believe that its just circumstantial doesnt matter.....how much circumstantial evidence (let alone solid proof) is there for God?

The evidence for the big bang is also astounding, they can actually hear it now, and it wont be long till we can see it. The further you look into space, the further back in time you are seeing, and there alone is my argument.

If we can see light from a star, say 30,000 light years away....which we can , and even further...then that light has taken 30,000 years to get to us. That star may not be there now, but we know it was 30,000 years ago. We know that the universe existed, it had to to hold that star. So was it just Earth he created in 6 days, just 6 thousand years ago, or the whole universe?

 

[PinkPunch]

This question is for pinkpunch why does God let bad things happen to good people?

I don't know why things happen to people I'm afraid. I recently heard a sermon on this but it was directed at bad things happening to Christians, why they suffer etc.. which is just sometimes God uses those circumstance to bring you closer to him.. it can go either way, drive you away from God or closer to him.

But as I said, thats for a believer so Im not sure I can answer that very well.

 

[elaine22]

It takes 5730 years for half of this to break down

How do you know?

That's hard to answer with no science books to hand The best I can offer is that it was calculated in the '40s by Willard Libby who used impossibly complicated formulae and artefacts of a known age (tree ring data) to compare his findings to and refine them.
Phew - brain is frazzled - it's not used for anything more taxing than nappy-changing/housework these days

 

[PinkPunch]

The evidence for the big bang is also astounding

lol Im sorry but I strongly diagree on this by a mile!

they can actually hear it now, and it wont be long till we can see it.

so.. they still can't "see" it then? In other words, they haven't really figured it out yet? Let me know when you find that star that has yet to appear.. although, if it takes 30,000 years i'll be dead...

how much circumstantial evidence (let alone solid proof) is there for God?

Im sure you realise, believing in God takes faith and Im no trying to deceive anyone is thinking anything different. However, I have seen miracles in peoples lives, things that are "impossible" for example. Until you put your faith in God, you can't experience the presense of God.

Hmm its a bit like you saying "I don't believe Austrailia exists" and im saying "but I have been there".. until your eyes have seen it, you don't want to believe unless you had faith in what I was saying.. am i making sense sorry if im not

 

[Misslarue]

they can actually hear it now, and it wont be long till we can see it.

so.. they still can't "see" it then? In other words, they haven't really figured it out yet? Let me know when you find that star that has yet to appear.. although, if it takes 30,000 years i'll be dead...

We can 'see it' as far as we can tell the universe is expanding and moving out from a central spot at a fast rate. Imagine a huge explosion with mass being hurled out in all directions. Hence a big bang! So we can 'see' it moving as such. That's as laymans as I get!

...........when you look at a star at night, you are not looking at it now, you are looking at it as it was then. I.E if that star was 4000 light years away, you are looking at it 4000 years ago. It may not be there now but the light has taken 4000 years to reach you.

Doesn't it say in the bible that the Earth is the centre of the universe?
To me this would not be the word of an all knowing infalliable higher being but rather a unintelligent explanation by a lesser race.