Annual Leave After MC

[russellmuscle]

Not even sure if that should be the correct title.

Basically, I am just out of a meeting with my manager due to the breif periods I was off whilst having a mc.

I suffered my mc on Tuesday morning and came into work, (didnt know I was pregnant at that point) I then on the Wednesday had to leave work early for a scan, bloods etc.

Thursday I came back into work as I was fine but let them know I would have a scan on the Friday at 8am. Went on Friday and was confirmed mc and bloods redone. The MW got back to me with my bloods about 2pm which was when mc was actually confirmed.

Now my manager has says basically because I have just met a trigger (being off the following week for a cold) she is putting it down as annual leave. She says HR are on at her about my sickness (even though theres people off long term sick with an online business still going) but if she puts the mc through as sick it means more trouble for me kinda thing. She seemed to think she was protecting me.

I am so angry, I got upset in the office and had to leave - I dont see how my mc was avoidable? It is only a half day shes taking but I just think its a bit beyond a joke.

I wasnt sure about sickness leave as I know with pregnancy it doesnt count because its pregnancy related - not sure if a mc would be the same?

Anyone know my rights? I am so angry and upset at this minute.

xxx

 

[kaz1983]

Yes a mc is classed as the same its pregnancy related so should not go against your sickness record. I had this with mine and was oput on what the NHS calls a stage 1 but I fought it as the letter I got afterwards was worded terribly I told them I wasnt happy with it their reply was its a standard letter. The bit that got me was "Further to our meeting where I confirmed your level of absence was unacceptable" I went mental at this as my line manager knew why I was off and I said to her although I wasn't physically ill I was emotionally and mentally ill so they removed two episodes of sickness from my record as they were pregnancy related

You dont happen t work for the NHS do you?

I would talk to HR yourself as this is what I did and they went down through my line manager like a tonne of brick

Its not what you need right now as youre trying to get your head round all your emotions and I think employers just think oh well youre back at work youre fine it takes a hell of a lot longer than they think to deal with and process having a mc xx

 

[russellmuscle]

I have emailed her:

Further to our talk this morning, I am sorry for getting upset, it is obviously difficult for me to talk to at the moment and especially at work.

I was only annoyed because I felt it was avoidable and it was my understanding that any pregnancy related illness including miscarriage should not fall under your sickness record atall, therefore not needing special leave or annual leave?

Are you be able to check this out for me?


I will give her the chance, if not I will look into it myself. I feel petty for moaning about a half day but I hardly have none and Im pretty sure Im right. Plus, some people are actually really cut up about this stuff.

Yeah I work for the NHS, the place where patient care and safety is supposed to be the goal. Clearly not, this is causing me more stress. I dont think I should be penilised for it. Or anyone else.


Thanks

xxxx

 

[kaz1983]

You are well within your rights to challenge them and thats why I did as I didn't just do it for me but I did it for anyone who unfortunately goes through this in the future.

If they still say it will class as an episdoe of sickness contact Occupational health as this is definately not right and not good for your stress levels

Fight it all the way hun because you are in the right xx

 

[russellmuscle]

Theyv not offered me bugger all, I have says alot of ladies take weeks off and according to the leaflet I just read by the MC association for employers she should be alot more supportive.

She has says I will give you time off if you need it.... which I dont? she knows I dont. Im not going to phone in a month and get some time off?! I am also now paranoid, what if this were to happen again when I TTC, so I cant let this one go by for the sake of a half day or not, its more the principle.

xxx

 

[mylullaby]

What it boils down to is this: if they cannot treat a man in the same way, they are discriminating against you. They can't hold pregnancy/mc absences against you because it would be physically impossible for a man to be off for the same reason. Sorry for your loss. You'd think the NHS would be more understanding / reasonable / educated about what they can and can't do in situations like this. I think you need to be clearer that those days relating to your mc will most certainly NOT be coming out of your annual leave and if they would like to put such demands in writing you would really appreciate it because that way you can save the paper trail of their discrimination more easily. Spell it out to them if you have to. xxx

 

[russellmuscle]

Thanks mylullaby, I guess your right. Women should be descriminated for things like this.

I have given her a chance to read the policy and amend what shes going to offer me - if she comes back and says the same then I will just ask for it and writing and proceed I think.

xxxx

 

[russellmuscle]

She got back to me saying she hadnt heard of any policy where I didnt need to use either annual or special leave - so I pasted her the CA link stating that a mc is classed as pregnancy related illness and should not be used against.

Awaiting her reply, I wont take being bullied.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/w...y-discrimination-at-work-specific-situations/

xxxx

 

[kaz1983]

good for you

My line manager claimed as she had not had training she wasn't aware that it was classed as pregnancy related which was a whole lot of crap as she could have asked her manager above her so she basically tried to say it wasn't her fault

when you work in the NHS it will be the same all over and as you are in scotland too it cant possibly be a different policy between two different regions xx

 

[russellmuscle]

Yeah - I know that sometimes they can manipulate the policy though so I wanted the legislation from CAB or ACAS.

My supervisor probably did ask the manager above but shes a reincarnated hilter. So I didnt expect anything else.

If she didnt know she does now. Its the same policy in the NHS to hire complete numpties that dont know how to do a job. What I want to know is if shes supposed to be a manger of 30 ladies, and even me at 24 knows the policy better than her what kind of manager is she?

She did say "it may be blessing in disguise" so perhaps thats another reason Im not taking this sitting down.

I barely have any days off, the days I do is for xmas so I can have it with Jackson. I know thats not the point, but this is all over a half day and she gave me special leave for leaving early on the Wednesday and says "we dont give special leave willy nilly" as if she did me a favour. Then said "if you want to take it as sick leave and take the hit you can, im only protecting you".

This was the email I got back:

Hi Claire

I've checked with HR and can confirm pregnancy related illnesses are not exempt from policy.

As discussed, Thursday 17th PM will either be sick leave or annual leave. I assumed you would just be returning to work as you had come in in the morning and did not mention when you called following your appointment that you were too unwell to return.

Happy to discuss this further


I have said I will need to discuss it further because as part of law it says it is, regardless of policy. Plus I will phone HR myself if needed.

I am getting more stressed trying to defend myself here actually than coming into work. I didnt mention that I wasnt ill, yeah because Im going to go into details of how I feel with my manager over the phone. I let her know what she needed to know, I miscarried I wasnt coming in.


xxx

 

[mylullaby]

She sounds like an absolute nightmare. Hopefully now you've sent the link that'll be enough to sort it out, but I've said this a million times before - ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. Just because you didn't educate yourself about the speed limit in the area, doesn't mean you can't get a ticket - same goes for employment law. If you manage other people, you need to understand employment law or suffer the consequences if you don't. And what a c*nt for the "blessing in disguise" comment. Fucking bitch. X

 

[russellmuscle]

The last email she sent as above was the one after I sent her the link.

So I have emailed her back and says I will meet ad discuss further, not before phoning HR CAB & ACAS.

Stress levels are climbing. I hate my work honestly.

Xxx

 

[caseysmummy11]

I work for the NHS and I had a lot of time off due to pregnancy related illness before mat leave and my manager reassured me it would not go towards my sick. It's pregnancy related so it doesn't count. Have you got a union rep you could speak to. My mil also works for the NHS and after one of my babies was stillborn she took time off due to bereavement and her manager told her she wasn't entitled to it when she was and her union reply helped her sort it. Xxx

 

[russellmuscle]

I'm not yet but I am going to ask for advice from our union rep that's based here. He's a guy that's the only thing but he's really nice. I don't want to go to war over a half day... I hope she backs down soon lol.


Xxx

 

[mylullaby]

Aww sorry didn't realise the reply was after you'd sent the link. It's not really about the half day specifically, like you say it's the principle. And God forbid you did end up going through the same thing again and need more time off, it's definitely better that you get this sorted now properly. And for any other women in the same situation - might make life a bit easier for them too. Hopefully the union rep will be able to help. Have a look at acas too and then you can meet with her armed with all the amunition you need. It's not about kicking up a stink over something as small as a half day, it's about making sure she knows how the law works to protect you and everyone else from discrimination xxx

 

[russellmuscle]

Exactly. Half of me feels bad because actually I rather just bloody move on but also other half angry for being penilised for something out with my control.

Plus that was my thought what if this happens again. That's always a fear after mc. Some have recurrent some don't but I couldn't go through this every time and neither should any other woman.

I'm so angry. I would never expect this from NHS. I'd have thought they would be more concerned with the people who have been off months but still have adds up on gum tree for their restoration business.

Don't mess with a half hormonal bitch and certainly not one who's just out of metafit lolol.

xxxx

 

[russellmuscle]

I met with my manager this morning, she heard back from HR who has says basically it falls under normal sickness, therefore would obviously get me in more trouble by going to a disaplinary .. She has says she gets what I am saying, but they are following their jobs etc.. So she says if I want to challenge HR I can. I have sent them an email this morning with CAB link and an explanation, lets see what they say.

I have threatened that I will be joining the union because I feel so strongly on it.

xxxx

 

[russellmuscle]

Phone call from HR - who have said basically it should go down as sick leave, however - it cannot be used against me, therefore not accountable.

As I am already attending a meeting with my manager reagarding sickness, they can have it noted but it will not affect any decision, also, if i the mc was my 4th absense they cant take me to a meeting over that.

Just waiting to hear back from my manager now, HR have phoned her to advise of this.

xxx

 

[kaz1983]

I still dont think that is right as HR here weren't happy at all with my line manager and told her it does not count as sickness

If you can I would fight this all the way xx

 

[Browneyed Girl]

I am a HR advisor for a big corporate. In this circumstance I would advise a manager to give paid special leave to cover the absence unless it was ongoing and then it may be appropriate to request a sick note and log it as part special leave / part sickness. There's nothing wrong as such in logging it as sickness (however the more compassionate approach would be to give special leave initially) but it is pregnancy related and therefore shouldn't be taken into account when assessing the sickness record to see if the employee is over trigger when considering disciplinary. I wouldn't advise a manager to move to disciplinary action on the basis of sickness absence related to pregnancy or miscarriage as this essentially is sex discrimination and a tribunal (if it ever went to tribunal) wouldn't look favourably on this xx