Do you support ideals if BNP?

[laetitia85]

Why do the government not let these people work but give them benefits? Does anyone know the reasoning behind this?

Because they don't have an EU passport or british passport/nationality and therefore aren't considered as people who are legally allowed to live and work in the UK. (Unless they apply for a work visa, which has to be done prior to moving to the UK)

I think

 

[Morganuk]

You dont think a lot of people see Britain as a free ride?

I personally believe that there are many Britons who think of Britain as a free ride which grieves the tax payers, regardless of race or ethnicity.

Exactly, we have enough of our own people who do this so more just adds to the problem.

 

[fran_23]

I think a lot of people who support the BNP do so out of their own personal experience. Theres a joke in Spain... it goes.. A little boy asks his father "what do you call someone who speaks 3 languages" Papa says "trilingual", the boy asks "what do you call someone who speaks 2 languages", papa says "bilingual", boy asks "what do you call someone who speaks 1 language"... papa says "British"...

I think its all very good to think the things the BNP do, but then British people aren't held in a great light either by other nationalities. Being British and an immigrant in another country, I encounter endless amounts of discrimination... the irony is because most British people here tend to be very isolated and basically live in British "ghettos" as one Spanish Politition described it, they are viewed by Spaniards as being discriminatory and ignorant. Most of those people I would say would support the BNP's ideals... but ironically live in another country and expect to be treated like royalty... Oh the hypocrisy is so rife.

I know that the majority of the flack I get here is because 90% of the Brits living here refuse to have anything to do with the Spanish community unless absolutely necessary...and everyone looks at me and thinks I am the same... the best discription I've had so far is that I am this beer swilling, street puking, having sex on the beach, child beating, ignorant Brit... but apparently I wasn't which wa refreshing Even so I was quit offended that someone thought of me like that. And its just not true. I have several British friends who are like me, billingual, hold down jobs, have lived here for years, live in a Spanish community, watch Spanish TV etc... and have intergrated. But we are hounded by these negative beliefs...

And I am pretty sure that immigrants in the UK are exactly the same. A few bad apples and it rocks the apple cart.

If you believe in the BNPs ideals then fine... There are people on here who believe in things that I am dead against, but I don't go attacking them... I may want to but I am above that... everyone is entitled to their beliefs and if you don't agree with them, either ignore what is said or take it up via PM... ignoring is better . The thing to do is to learn and study as much as you can about the BNP (know your enemy) so that when someone says do you support the BNP you can legitametly say... NO... because of this and this and this person said this and this person did that. Ask me about Nestle and I can give you a nice little soap box lecture on the evils of eating their chocolate and drinking their coffee... and how many babies in the third world continue to die because of them. But thats another thread

sorry this was a few pages back but i was just reading back over the bits i missed and came across this post from squiglet and i just want to say that my dads parents and brothers and sisters moved to spain about 17 years ago, they run 3 successful business' and i have always visited them there 1-2 times a year from being young, i never thought much about it until i was a bit older but i realise now that..they are very different to other english out there, they speak spanish and catalan, my nan has a restaraunt which doesnt do english fry ups and curry she has a traditional spainsh menu with menu del dia everyday..they fit in and they have made many great friends in the locals where they live. If you travel up the road 15 mins to Lloret de mar there is a bit in the middle which is like being in a cheesy english holiday camp- they have a pub called the queen vic where they serve aftershock and vodka redbulls and do giant sumowrestling- and have a mechanical bull and bungee ball and a nightclub- oh and a Mcdonalds i have only been there a few times but what is the point in Britains going to spain and setting up a little piece of england in the most touristy bit near the hotels..when i go away i want to see local culture and try local foods and drink. The locals must be really peed off with that? i bet they hate british people because all they see is lager louts in union jack shorts sunburned to the max drinking stella and acting like eveynight is a foamparty in a tacky club..i hate that!! When i go to spain i dont frequent these establishments, me and my family eat out in traditional places and go to bars of out friends who are all local/native to the area..and we are respectful we speak spanish where we can..i actually hate the really tacky tourists as it feels like my home from home!!

Equally what i do not like in this country is when people come to live here and i'm talking about people who have lived here a few generations and they do not want there younger family members to mix with white english people- i know this happens i have had many friends both muslim and hindu who have told me there grandparents and parents would never allow them to marry a white person- ok maybe they want them to marry into the same religion and culture and they want to stop there religion being westernised which is fair enough i guess but love is love and look at all the honour killings that go on in this country in this age its disgusting! however this is a different subject so i will stop rambling.

 

[Morganuk]

Personally I dont see immigrants on the whole as wanting a free ride.

Seeing pictures of people crammed into spaces on lorries and dealing with the discomfort and dangerous situations that can sometimes be lethal that these people go through just to get into this country....makes me wonder what an awful situation they must come from to go to such desperate measures and how lucky I am to live in a country and be a member of a country that these people risk their lives to get to.

There are criminals in every nation. Some of our criminals go abroad - thats how Australia gained much of its population initially!!
I think its unfair to label every immigrant, illegal or not, that comes into this country because of a few that break the law.

For me its a case of there but for the grace of god rather than feeling any resentment towards them..

We employ some Polish people because we also work over in Poland - they make money by being over here but we also make money through working in Poland so its swings and roundabouts. Plus many of the Polish that come over here do so to make a better life for themselves and they pay taxes etc just like us.

Why are we so much better than any other nation that only we can benefit from the privileges that living in a developed country give? People move jobs to better themselves, why is it not ok that they move countries too?

Yes we know a lot of people do

As quoted above I acknowledge that a lot of people do but I imagine that a lot come here and use that excuse.
To me if you have family ties to this country then you should be allowed to stay but come on, not everyone can expect to come here and overpopulate Britain.
As I have said, why cant other countries help out?
We have to be realistic and say that although its not always a nice thought to tell people to bugger off we have to have common sense to know that our countries in a mess as it is without the extra strain of people coming in just to use our free benefit and health care system.
laetitia85, you were born here so this is your country as well as where your family originate.
If people can contribute then that is fine to a certain extent as our own people need jobs here to.

 

[laetitia85]

Personally I dont see immigrants on the whole as wanting a free ride.

Seeing pictures of people crammed into spaces on lorries and dealing with the discomfort and dangerous situations that can sometimes be lethal that these people go through just to get into this country....makes me wonder what an awful situation they must come from to go to such desperate measures and how lucky I am to live in a country and be a member of a country that these people risk their lives to get to.

There are criminals in every nation. Some of our criminals go abroad - thats how Australia gained much of its population initially!!
I think its unfair to label every immigrant, illegal or not, that comes into this country because of a few that break the law.

For me its a case of there but for the grace of god rather than feeling any resentment towards them..

We employ some Polish people because we also work over in Poland - they make money by being over here but we also make money through working in Poland so its swings and roundabouts. Plus many of the Polish that come over here do so to make a better life for themselves and they pay taxes etc just like us.

Why are we so much better than any other nation that only we can benefit from the privileges that living in a developed country give? People move jobs to better themselves, why is it not ok that they move countries too?

Yes we know a lot of people do

As quoted above I acknowledge that a lot of people do but I imagine that a lot come here and use that excuse.
To me if you have family ties to this country then you should be allowed to stay but come on, not everyone can expect to come here and overpopulate Britain.
As I have said, why cant other countries help out?
We have to be realistic and say that although its not always a nice thought to tell people to bugger off we have to have common sense to know that our countries in a mess as it is without the extra strain of people coming in just to use our free benefit and health care system.
laetitia85, you were born here so this is your country as well as where your family originate.
If people can contribute then that is fine to a certain extent as our own people need jobs here to.

I wasn't born here hun

I was born in Belgium, but only because my mum's friend was a doctor who lived in Belgium and who delivered all four of my mum's kids! My mum always travelled to belgium to give birth, and then went back to congo where I was living officially, from 0 - 5 years old. I moved to Belgium permanently when I was 5, lived there for 10 years and then came to London in 2000.

So yeah my family and I were all asylum seekers when we left the Congo for Belgium. We only got the Belgian nationality in 2000. And we came to London because my dad was living here and my parents got back together after a nasty split.

 

[daftscotslass]

To me if you have family ties to this country then you should be allowed to stay but come on, not everyone can expect to come here and overpopulate Britain.

Britain is ANYTHING but overpopulated. The population of Scotland is set to fall below 5 million within the next 10 years. The Scottish government are actively seeking and incentivising "fresh talent" to come here from the rest of the world as about 4 years ago there was serious concern there wouldn't be enough resources/people working to support an aging population . Scotland has a great number of immigrants and asylum seekers up here but they are far from "overpopulating" this part of the country

It's certainly not that other countries aren't "helping out". It's a great deal easier for most to get to countries on the European continent so a great many people don't even get as far as our little island. Take the Netherlands as an example (it's the only country I know anything about other than here ). The Netherlands is 80% Dutch. Compare that to Britain where over 90% of people are British.

 

[Morganuk]

Personally I dont see immigrants on the whole as wanting a free ride.

Seeing pictures of people crammed into spaces on lorries and dealing with the discomfort and dangerous situations that can sometimes be lethal that these people go through just to get into this country....makes me wonder what an awful situation they must come from to go to such desperate measures and how lucky I am to live in a country and be a member of a country that these people risk their lives to get to.

There are criminals in every nation. Some of our criminals go abroad - thats how Australia gained much of its population initially!!
I think its unfair to label every immigrant, illegal or not, that comes into this country because of a few that break the law.

For me its a case of there but for the grace of god rather than feeling any resentment towards them..

We employ some Polish people because we also work over in Poland - they make money by being over here but we also make money through working in Poland so its swings and roundabouts. Plus many of the Polish that come over here do so to make a better life for themselves and they pay taxes etc just like us.

Why are we so much better than any other nation that only we can benefit from the privileges that living in a developed country give? People move jobs to better themselves, why is it not ok that they move countries too?

Yes we know a lot of people do

As quoted above I acknowledge that a lot of people do but I imagine that a lot come here and use that excuse.
To me if you have family ties to this country then you should be allowed to stay but come on, not everyone can expect to come here and overpopulate Britain.
As I have said, why cant other countries help out?
We have to be realistic and say that although its not always a nice thought to tell people to bugger off we have to have common sense to know that our countries in a mess as it is without the extra strain of people coming in just to use our free benefit and health care system.
laetitia85, you were born here so this is your country as well as where your family originate.
If people can contribute then that is fine to a certain extent as our own people need jobs here to.

I wasn't born here hun

I was born in Belgium, but only because my mum's friend was a doctor who lived in Belgium and who delivered all four of my mum's kids! My mum always travelled to belgium to give birth, and then went back to congo where I was living officially, from 0 - 5 years old. I moved to Belgium permanently when I was 5, lived there for 10 years and then came to London in 2000.

So yeah my family and I were all asylum seekers when we left the Congo for Belgium. We only got the Belgian nationality in 2000. And we came to London because my dad was living here and my parents got back together after a nasty split.

Sorry

Hun as I say I dont think that no one should come here, just the ones who want a free ride and as said there should be a limit. Your dad was here so understandably you would want to come over

 

[Morganuk]

To me if you have family ties to this country then you should be allowed to stay but come on, not everyone can expect to come here and overpopulate Britain.

Britain is ANYTHING but overpopulated. The population of Scotland is set to fall below 5 million within the next 10 years. The Scottish government are actively seeking and incentivising "fresh talent" to come here from the rest of the world as about 4 years ago there was serious concern there wouldn't be enough resources/people working to support an aging population . Scotland has a great number of immigrants and asylum seekers up here but they are far from "overpopulating" this part of the country

It's certainly not that other countries aren't "helping out". It's a great deal easier for most to get to countries on the European continent so a great many people don't even get as far as our little island. Take the Netherlands as an example (it's the only country I know anything about other than here ). The Netherlands is 80% Dutch. Compare that to Britain where over 90% of people are British.

Ok I stand corrected

I guess I think in terms of things like lack of jobs.

 

[laetitia85]

Personally I dont see immigrants on the whole as wanting a free ride.

Seeing pictures of people crammed into spaces on lorries and dealing with the discomfort and dangerous situations that can sometimes be lethal that these people go through just to get into this country....makes me wonder what an awful situation they must come from to go to such desperate measures and how lucky I am to live in a country and be a member of a country that these people risk their lives to get to.

There are criminals in every nation. Some of our criminals go abroad - thats how Australia gained much of its population initially!!
I think its unfair to label every immigrant, illegal or not, that comes into this country because of a few that break the law.

For me its a case of there but for the grace of god rather than feeling any resentment towards them..

We employ some Polish people because we also work over in Poland - they make money by being over here but we also make money through working in Poland so its swings and roundabouts. Plus many of the Polish that come over here do so to make a better life for themselves and they pay taxes etc just like us.

Why are we so much better than any other nation that only we can benefit from the privileges that living in a developed country give? People move jobs to better themselves, why is it not ok that they move countries too?

Yes we know a lot of people do

As quoted above I acknowledge that a lot of people do but I imagine that a lot come here and use that excuse.
To me if you have family ties to this country then you should be allowed to stay but come on, not everyone can expect to come here and overpopulate Britain.
As I have said, why cant other countries help out?
We have to be realistic and say that although its not always a nice thought to tell people to bugger off we have to have common sense to know that our countries in a mess as it is without the extra strain of people coming in just to use our free benefit and health care system.
laetitia85, you were born here so this is your country as well as where your family originate.
If people can contribute then that is fine to a certain extent as our own people need jobs here to.

I wasn't born here hun

I was born in Belgium, but only because my mum's friend was a doctor who lived in Belgium and who delivered all four of my mum's kids! My mum always travelled to belgium to give birth, and then went back to congo where I was living officially, from 0 - 5 years old. I moved to Belgium permanently when I was 5, lived there for 10 years and then came to London in 2000.

So yeah my family and I were all asylum seekers when we left the Congo for Belgium. We only got the Belgian nationality in 2000. And we came to London because my dad was living here and my parents got back together after a nasty split.

Sorry

Hun as I say I dont think that no one should come here, just the ones who want a free ride and as said there should be a limit. Your dad was here so understandably you would want to come over

On this note, let me also take the opportunity to say that in another thread I talked about how I grew up in Belgium's richest village (Lasne). Well, life as an asylum seeker in belgium in the 90's wasn't bad for us at all, because my dad was still going to Congo back and forth to finish his mandate as the minister of finance, when he was working for the congolese government. And although my mum didn't work in Lasne, (I don't think she was allowed to) we still had a great life, a huge house and lots of money!

What we were really escaping from was the war, the conflict, the violence and the threats! And because my dad worked for the Congolese government, he knew that the war was going to be really bad, which is why he told my mum "I'm sending you and the kids to Europe". We just happened to settle here. And if you watch the news, you will see that the conflict in Congo is still going on, in fact it has never really ended. i still have family there who live in fear.

So some africans/asians etc. don't just come to Europe for the economic advantagdes. A lot of them have great business back home but they want to escape the violence and conflict. Because when you fear for your life, sometimes you have to give up all that in order to find a safer place to live. Your money can't protect you.

 

[Sammystar]

It's not just Britain that has a 'problem', it's the same wherever you go, so it's not a question of other countries 'not helping out'.

Germany and France both have massive immigrant populations. Germany brought in the Turks in their hundreds of thousands after the second world war in order to help rebuild the country and its economic infrastructure. France has a massive Muslim population (and a massive Brit one too!). In fact, go anywhere in Europe and it's the same, even here in Switzerland (where they famously had the 'black sheep' political campaign a couple of years ago )

The fact is we NEED immigrants in all walks of life. I AM one! No country, despite what the press would have you believe, lays out a red carpet for any Tom, Dick or Harry, to 'sponge' from it's system. This is a myth, created by certain sections of the media, and (ahem) certain extreme politicians, to satisfy THEIR OWN ends........

When the masses start to believe the hype (and you can't blame them in a way, there's SO MUCH of it) then these people get a grip on power and we know from history what the consequences of that are.........

Thank goodness, that in this high tech media world, us lay people have the education and the resources to be able to separate the fact from the fiction ourselves, which is no doubt the reason why the BNP has such a pathetically small following.

 

[laetitia85]

Germany and France both have massive immigrant populations. Germany brought in the Turks in their hundreds of thousands after the second world war in order to help rebuild the country and its economic infrastructure.

I think what the extremist BNP and other parties alike are saying now is "OK, thanks for the help, but time to go back now, folks!"

 

[nori]

Germany and France both have massive immigrant populations. Germany brought in the Turks in their hundreds of thousands after the second world war in order to help rebuild the country and its economic infrastructure. France has a massive Muslim population (and a massive Brit one too!). In fact, go anywhere in Europe and it's the same, even here in Switzerland (where they famously had the 'black sheep' political campaign a couple of years ago )

Just going back to Laiticias story about her friend.. do those other countries do the same as Britain and give out benefits to illegal immigrants who could and would happily make a life for themselves, get a job and support themselves but arent allowed to work?

Sorry, but its still bugging me to the extent im thinking of writing to someone (just dont know who!) lol

 

[purple13]

good reply sue

i think the problem with the counter-argument in this debate is that noone is coming back with facts & figures to state their case; replies all contain vague suppositions without factual basis. its quite frustrating. its this ignorance that the BNP propaganda machine relies on - which is why i'm still finding a need to question it.

soooo, to those who still think there are too many immigrants coming here and taking our jobs and benefits, for the sake of a proper and decent debate, please supply your evidence! and remember to differentiate between immigrants, illegal immigrants & asylum seekers.

nori - illegal immigrants don't get benefits! asylum seekers get some support because they have no other means of supporting themselves until they are either accepted into the country or sent home.

 

[Morganuk]

It's not just Britain that has a 'problem', it's the same wherever you go, so it's not a question of other countries 'not helping out'.

Germany and France both have massive immigrant populations. Germany brought in the Turks in their hundreds of thousands after the second world war in order to help rebuild the country and its economic infrastructure. France has a massive Muslim population (and a massive Brit one too!). In fact, go anywhere in Europe and it's the same, even here in Switzerland (where they famously had the 'black sheep' political campaign a couple of years ago )

The fact is we NEED immigrants in all walks of life. I AM one! No country, despite what the press would have you believe, lays out a red carpet for any Tom, Dick or Harry, to 'sponge' from it's system. This is a myth, created by certain sections of the media, and (ahem) certain extreme politicians, to satisfy THEIR OWN ends........

When the masses start to believe the hype (and you can't blame them in a way, there's SO MUCH of it) then these people get a grip on power and we know from history what the consequences of that are.........

Thank goodness, that in this high tech media world, us lay people have the education and the resources to be able to separate the fact from the fiction ourselves, which is no doubt the reason why the BNP has such a pathetically small following.

No country, despite what the press would have you believe, lays out a red carpet for any Tom, Dick or Harry, to 'sponge' from it's system.

You dont have to read the papers to know we have a free benefits and free healthcare system thats easy to obtain from.

 

[Jen & Her Men]

It's not just Britain that has a 'problem', it's the same wherever you go, so it's not a question of other countries 'not helping out'.

Germany and France both have massive immigrant populations. Germany brought in the Turks in their hundreds of thousands after the second world war in order to help rebuild the country and its economic infrastructure. France has a massive Muslim population (and a massive Brit one too!). In fact, go anywhere in Europe and it's the same, even here in Switzerland (where they famously had the 'black sheep' political campaign a couple of years ago )

The fact is we NEED immigrants in all walks of life. I AM one! No country, despite what the press would have you believe, lays out a red carpet for any Tom, Dick or Harry, to 'sponge' from it's system. This is a myth, created by certain sections of the media, and (ahem) certain extreme politicians, to satisfy THEIR OWN ends........

When the masses start to believe the hype (and you can't blame them in a way, there's SO MUCH of it) then these people get a grip on power and we know from history what the consequences of that are.........

Thank goodness, that in this high tech media world, us lay people have the education and the resources to be able to separate the fact from the fiction ourselves, which is no doubt the reason why the BNP has such a pathetically small following.

No country, despite what the press would have you believe, lays out a red carpet for any Tom, Dick or Harry, to 'sponge' from it's system.

You dont have to read the papers to know we have a free benefits and free healthcare system thats easy to obtain from.

Who says its easy to obtain from? It is for us because we are British citizens.
Who do you know who is an illegal immigrant who obtain from it? Thats not meant to sound funny btw Im just curious to understand what makes you think that.

 

[Sammystar]

Germany and France both have massive immigrant populations. Germany brought in the Turks in their hundreds of thousands after the second world war in order to help rebuild the country and its economic infrastructure. France has a massive Muslim population (and a massive Brit one too!). In fact, go anywhere in Europe and it's the same, even here in Switzerland (where they famously had the 'black sheep' political campaign a couple of years ago )

Just going back to Laiticias story about her friend.. do those other countries do the same as Britain and give out benefits to illegal immigrants who could and would happily make a life for themselves, get a job and support themselves but arent allowed to work?

Sorry, but its still bugging me to the extent im thinking of writing to someone (just dont know who!) lol

I can only speak for Switzerland and that's certainly not the case here! The Swiss don't make it easy for EU Nationals to gain entry, and they are very strict when it comes to Asylum seekers and non-EU Nationals. That's not to say they don't take their fair share though. Nobody is turned away until their case has been thoroughly reviewed, and while that is happening, they are supported, the same as anywhere else.

I know from experience in France that they have a massively overstretched and overexploited social benefits system. I was only there two years, but I'd say their problem is far greater than in the UK (hence the popularity of the scary Mr Lepen). However, in my limited experience, it seemed to be the French themselves milking the system, rather than the foreigners.

 

[fran_23]

good reply sue

i think the problem with the counter-argument in this debate is that noone is coming back with facts & figures to state their case; replies all contain vague suppositions without factual basis. its quite frustrating. its this ignorance that the BNP propaganda machine relies on - which is why i'm still finding a need to question it.

soooo, to those who still think there are too many immigrants coming here and taking our jobs and benefits, for the sake of a proper and decent debate, please supply your evidence! and remember to differentiate between immigrants, illegal immigrants & asylum seekers.

nori - illegal immigrants don't get benefits! asylum seekers get some support because they have no other means of supporting themselves until they are either accepted into the country or sent home.

Ok i am not one of those who support the BNP or any of its policies but No one who has said yes is willing to come forward and put there arguments into this debate! maybe they are ashamed maybe they cannot back themselves up..who knows but i am going to try and see it from both sides objectively so no one jump on me...i am trying to see what the other arguments could possibly be! ok! here is just one of the main points being put forward: the claim that immigrant workers are "stealing our jobs"

HE flood of migrant workers from eastern Europe has driven up unemployment among Britons.

A sharp drop in employment among British workers since 2004 has been mirrored by a sharp rise in the number of Poles, Lithuanians and their neighbours working here, a Cambridge University professor revealed yesterday.

The numbers reflect the huge wave of migrant workers from the former communist bloc after the EU expanded in that year.

But the rise in other migrant workers remained steady over the same period – suggesting that the flows from eastern Europe have had a direct impact on jobs.

The analysis shatters the Government’s claims that its decision to give free access to the labour market in 2004 would benefit the country. It also makes a mockery of Gordon Brown’s pledge of British jobs for British workers.

It comes as separate research shows tens of thousands of migrant workers, from within and outside the EU, have landed jobs in the country’s unemployment blackspots.

Last week a devastating House of Lords report said that mass migration had not benefitted the economy.

Cambridge Professor Robert Rowthorn, who analysed the Government’s own figures, said: “Official claims that immigration has had a negligible impact on native workers are hard to square with the observed behaviour of employment at a national level.

“There is a striking inverse relationship between the employment of UK natives and that of nationals from the A8 (Eastern European) countries.

“It seems fairly obvious that immigration from the first wave of new member states has had a negative impact on native employment.”

Is this really true or is it a fact that thise immigrants have found jobs in these "unemployment blackspots" because the native britains have been too lazy to get out and get these jobs for themselves??
Is it true that companies would rather emply immigrants from eastern europe because they will do the job for less money? surely these migrant workers are still subject to minimum wage rules being from the EU??

 

[nori]

nori - illegal immigrants don't get benefits! asylum seekers get some support because they have no other means of supporting themselves until they are either accepted into the country or sent home.

please see page 13 on here.. sorry couldnt work out how to copy it over!

 

[purple13]

interesting article - thanks fran! that's the sort of response i was hoping for - its v difficult to see both sides of a story without a reasoned argument.

*runs off to look up Robert Rowthorn's research*

 

[purple13]

nori - illegal immigrants don't get benefits! asylum seekers get some support because they have no other means of supporting themselves until they are either accepted into the country or sent home.

please see page 13 on here.. sorry couldnt work out how to copy it over!

do you mean laeticia's friend? he came here illegally but claimed asylum status. that's different to people entering the country illegally and staying under the radar.