breast or bottle poll - to include the new moms...

[Urchin]

I fail to see why this is being dragged up again and again!

Everytime this discussion crops up it heaps the guilt on those of us that may already feel guilty about not breastfeeding by choice, or those of us that have tried but failed.

Sorry but I don't see why we can't have this discussion on the board, just cos some moms may feel guilty about it. That's not the fault of the posters here, I haven't seen anyone put anyone else down for bottlefeeding, it's just a personal choice.
We are all adults here and we should be able to have debates and discussions without being told what opinions we can and can't post. It's a pregnancy and parenting forum, we can't rightly say we can't discuss this issue can we?...it's a vital one in parenting world, just cos some people feel strongly about it isn't a good enough reason not to talk about it.

Sorry if you feel guilty for being unable to breastfeed after 11 weeks, it sounds to me like you did great, have confidence in yourself and your parenting skills, let the guilt go.

 

[beanie]

I fail to see why this is being dragged up again and again!

What is being dragged up agaion? The way I read this its breastfeeding mums sharing their experiences on a pregnancy forum. There is no debate on what is best for baby, no-one here is saying all formula feeding mummy's are to be damned. I found breastfeeding in the early days to be very isolating and from reading what others have written so have they. So if they want to discuss their experiences on a pregnancy and parenting forum, why shopuldn't they

I totally disagree that advertising formula encourages less women to breastfeed, you might as well say that opticians adverts make us all want to go out and buy glasses.

advertising is a very powerful tool, thats why the industry is worth millions. People are influenced by ads, otherwise why would companies spend so much on them? and yes you are right in that formula advertising does not affect a woman's choice to breastfeed but research has pointed strongly to the fact that exposure to the ads increases the likelihood that women will stop breastfeeding during their first two weeks. Also there is the mixed messages they give out that the normal ways for baby to behave is the happy contented babies they show in the formula ads that are getting all their vits from formula etc. I know of one woman who was told by her friend who is a nurse that she should put her daughter on follow on milk at 6 months so she could get enough iron, yet breasttmilk is perfect for a 6 month old. Also that nauseating SMA ad where the dad promises to be the worlds best daddy if only they feed their baby SMA- which incidently I have told OH we will be doing so he can be that perfect. I read so many times posts from people who think daddy won't be able to bond unless they can feed baby etc etc, and this ad just helps to strengthen that belief.

I am a member of the NCT but I have to say it really annoys me that they want all formula ads banned. It makes it seem like formula is 'dangerous' for growing babies.

as a member of the NCT you would know the reason they are asking for follow on milk ads to be banned is due to the fact that again research has shown that there is misleading info bering given out. Since infant formula ads were banned the packaging of follow on milk has changed to look very similar to that of their first formula milk, and people are getting the wrong info which at times can be dangerous, for example women giving their babies follow on milk at 3 months when the mineral content is too high for their babies. Also "According to a government survey one third of British mothers (34%) actually believe that infant formula is the same or almost the same as breastfeeding, and 53% of those giving up breastfeeding between 2 and 6 weeks did so because they believed they had insufficient milk – a false notion which the baby food industry has fuelled with its claims such as ‘milk for hungry babies.’ " So its not that formula is dangerous, I was also fed formula after being breastfed and I too am still alive to tell the tale, its that the advertisers are giving out mixed messages.

Everytime this discussion crops up it heaps the guilt on those of us that may already feel guilty about not breastfeeding by choice, or those of us that have tried but failed.

There are two sides to every story, we all love our babies and want the best for them

i'm sorry if you feel like this but again like I said at the beginning, this thead has been about breastfeeding mums saying how isolated they have been. Though if you have chosen not to breastfeed I don't understand why any talk around breastfeeding should make you feel guilty - surely this says more about your choice then anything. I also full;y understand about how people feel when they are unable to carry on breastfeeding, I supported my best mate through this and it is tough but I believe that through talking about breastfeeding, women will be able to get more support. I very nearly gave up, but it was only through other breastfeeding mums saying that frequent feeding was the norm, and that you can breastfeed through mastitis that I realised the so called professional advice I was being given was in fact pants and I was able to carry on.

 

[Minxy]

I can empathise HK

I'm also a formula feeder not through initial choice and I've totally been there: feeling crappy about it, resenting having my 'nose rubbed in it' by health professionals and feeling aggrieved at 'smug' successful breastfeeders.

But you know, in retrospect, that was all my perception of the situation. Here is a thread on feeding which is balanced and diplomatic as far as I can see, with no individual or group being criticised.

If you can't talk about feeding on a pregnancy forum, where can you? In fact the forums have really helped me work through the guilt I felt and see the bigger picture. I also plan to use them as a support network when it comes to feeding baby two.

I'm another healthy formula fed adult and have nothing against it at all (how can I when my gorgeous boy has grown big and strong on it?). Still, as you put, the only truth is breast is best, and I'm interested in why as a nation we have low rates.

 

[Rosieroo]

Still, as you put, the only truth is breast is best, and I'm interested in why as a nation we have low rates.

Lack of support and knowledge amongst medical staff. Plus funds to be able to provide continued support for breastfeeding mums.
When I had DD my nipples ended up shredded due to the lack of advice given by the hospital (they didn't even see her feed and when I expressed concern that she hadn't fed, as she'd latched on and sucked about 3 times then come off I was told to stop worrying and that I had to calm down). When I had mastitis a MW told me it was up to me whether I continued to breastfeed through it. When Ella was going through a growth spurt I was told not to breastfeed her at her next feed but to instead give her a bottle of formula. If I hadn't been determined to show family that I could do it then at all of these stages I could have easily given up.
I think that women are discharged from midwife care too early (once I was discharged when Ella was under a couple weeks old, I then had to wait to see the male HV who I definately didn't want to discuss my breastfeeding concerns with with my first child!). Midwives have different opinions on breastfeeding and I believe a lot are not trained enough to help mums breastfeed sucessfully. People need to be more aware that there are breastfeeding counsellors out there to help them and I do believe that all women should be told where to find help before they give birth, breastfeeding peers/counsellors should be linked to all doctors surgeries and if a woman is struggling then she should be seen, face to face, but by someone who is trained to give proper advice.

If you listen to a lot of the mums on here who have given up breastfeeding and turned to formula most if not all have suffered some from lack of support and correct advice.

My friend who turned to formula spent 4 days in hospital (after her c section) practically begging for help and was told someone would come and see her to help with latching on and positioning. Nobody did. In the end she got so frustrated that she bottle fed him. Another that I know who has a baby a similar age to Alex was told not to breastfeed whilst she had mastitis as she could pass the infection on to her baby (utter rubbish!). By the time her mastitis had cleared her milk supply had dwindled almost entirely and she found it near impossible to get it back up again.

 

[missac]

just wanted to say that I don't think formula adverts should be banned as if you are not breastfeeding it is nice to know what is out there, and by advertising you can see what sort of things are on the market. Ti liken it to glasses adverts, just because I don't need glasses doesn't mean the adverts should be banned. Junk food adverts are being banned and cigerette adverts are being banned as these things are BAD for you, forumal isn't bad for you.

I empathise with HK, I think you have jumped on her a little bit for having her say, maybe she shouldn't have written the first bit about it being dragged up again but she is still entitled to her opinion just like everyone else.

I also wanted to mention that the fact that Jordon bottle feeds is her personal choice and she doesn't need a kick up the arse at all that is like saying I need a kick up the arse because I bottle feed - maybe I have misinterpreted?

Not wanting to start ANY arguments, just wanted to add my thoughts!

 

[Rosieroo]

I personally think Jordan needs a kick up the arse for promoting infant formula (well the magazine was definately going against guidelines for advertising formula when they showed her feeding her infant with a bottle of ready make formula with the label pointing outwards, clearly showing the manufacturer) and saying how 'easy' it was to bottlefeed and stating that her breasts are for Pete (or something like that). But that's just my opinion. It's not the fact that she bottle feeds that means she needs a kick, just the way she came across in the magazine article (was it Hello or OK?)

Missac formula adverts for infant formula are banned, it's against advertising regulations to promote milk for infants under the age of 6 months. That's why there are so many follow on milks around, it's a way for the advertisers to get round the regulations and still promote their products.

 

[missac]

I didn't realise under 6 month milk was banned but I still disagree with banning it!

 

[beanie]

just wanted to say that I don't think formula adverts should be banned as if you are not breastfeeding it is nice to know what is out there, and by advertising you can see what sort of things are on the market. Ti liken it to glasses adverts, just because I don't need glasses doesn't mean the adverts should be banned. Junk food adverts are being banned and cigerette adverts are being banned as these things are BAD for you, forumal isn't bad for you.

I empathise with HK, I think you have jumped on her a little bit for having her say, maybe she shouldn't have written the first bit about it being dragged up again but she is still entitled to her opinion just like everyone else.

I also wanted to mention that the fact that Jordon bottle feeds is her personal choice and she doesn't need a kick up the arse at all that is like saying I need a kick up the arse because I bottle feed - maybe I have misinterpreted?

Not wanting to start ANY arguments, just wanted to add my thoughts!

I have't jumped on anyone, why is it if you disagree with someone you are accused of jumping on them? HK made a point - I challenged it. Research has shown that advertising formula has an effect, so to say it doesn't isn't true. Thats not jumping on someone, thats posting information. People are more entitled to their opinion but should expect that people will respond. I admit that the point about it all being dragged up again annoyed me but that is because I didn't agree with what was being implied.

I have already posted about why advertising follow on milks can be damaging and that it is not because formula is bad.

Jordon did say "I don’t want a baby drinking from me. The thought of it makes me feel really funny.". These sort of statements from a well known celeb make breastfeeding even more of an ick thing. Breastfeeding is seen as a weird thing, especially past the age of 1 and our society has such a strong attitude against it, blimey the amounts of bitty comments I got even though I wasn't breastfeeding a 40+ man but a toddler instead. If Jordan didn'twantto breastfeed thats up to her, TBH I realy couldn't care less but when she makes disparaging comments that will be read by a lot of people it really winds me up as I feel it just strengthens the view that breastfeeding is yucky and should not be seen in public. I have yet to hear of a mum using a bottle being askedto feed in the toilets,or to feed more discreetly, in fact no-one raises an eyebrow but sadly alot of breastfeeding mums are still getting those repsonses.

 

[missac]

ok then

 

[Redshoes]

I feel quite privileged to have had the opportunity to both breast and formula/bottle feed Isaac, because before his birth I believed breast was best, but now I have to say I thinkwhat's best for me and him is best, and that happned to be both, much to my upset but I did what I felt was right for my son. I know how hard it was accepting I'd have to bottle/formula feed, so I can understand how hard it must be for Mum's who want to bottle/formula feed but feel they have to accept breast is best, does that make sense?

Anyway, I don't care if it's flippant, Happy Mummy=Happy Baby, whether that be on a teat or nipple
And as for what's in formula, does it matter, seriously? I'm not being ignorant there either, just after breast and formula, there's NO other choice, so to get upset about what's in formula is madness, to know is power I agree, but to then worry or suggest it's a bad thing for LO, is just hurting Mummy's at the end of the day.

I love formula feeders and breast feeders and I think it's great we can have a thread where people feel they can voice there opinions, even if it gets heated, we're all very passionate about our babies, that's what counts
Happy feeding babies

 

[lauramumof2]

This isnt in reply to anything anyone said, its just my thoughts for contributing to the post.

I didnt find bottle feeding easier than bf though i couldnt get the hang of the bf. With Joe I went through lots of styles, teats, flows. Different types of milk and the worry of him not taking enough milk then the guilt that had I persevered with the bf would he be a better feeder.

I read a post on this months ago and someone said something poinent,

'at least they are getting fed, doesnt matter how'

 

[Hellokitty]

this thead has been about breastfeeding mums saying how isolated they have been. Though if you have chosen not to breastfeed I don't understand why any talk around breastfeeding should make you feel guilty - surely this says more about your choice then anything.

The thread was actually about why people choose to bottle or breast feed…I was pointing out that it’s not always a choice.

wow can't believe you stuck with breastfeeding... and they were all sitting there talking about bottlefeeding and how their babies are already sleeping through the night.

Probably just your personal interpretation of the conversation.

It's a shame that the bottle feeding mums you saw have to gloat that their babies are sleeping through because they're on formula

In some cases this is probably because these mums are envious that you are still breast feeding and are justifying (to themselves) their use of formula.

i think the reason why lots of mums our age bottlefeed is so they can go out again, drinking etc?

I do hope not!!! This suggests that formula feeding mums are lazy and self-centered!

hopefully this thread won't turn into an argument as it is such an emotive topic for everyone here.

Sorry!

why bother with the breast feeds when you had to top her up ,others kind of making me feel really guilty for topping her up with the bottle and others saying you should have gone for the bottle in first place.

These kinds of mixed messages are difficult to deal with, especially if you are struggling with feeding.

I felt huge pressure to bf but finally realised it was more important to do what was right for ben and I. It is true that happy mum = happy baby!

Hallelujah!

I know some women can't breastfeed and thats fine I am very sorry about that, I genuinly am , noone desputed that?

Some can’t, some won’t.

Personally I could. I enjoyed breastfeeding, I didn’t even have any real issues with pain or latching etc. My daughter was very big and very hungry and she just stopped breastfeeding one day! She just wouldn’t do it! I tried and tried and she screamed and screamed! I carried on expressing for a few weeks but began to realise it was crazy spending 3 precious hours a day expressing one bottle of breast milk!

I can empathise HK

I'm also a formula feeder not through initial choice and I've totally been there: feeling crappy about it, resenting having my 'nose rubbed in it' by health professionals and feeling aggrieved at 'smug' successful breastfeeders.

But you know, in retrospect, that was all my perception of the situation. Here is a thread on feeding which is balanced and diplomatic as far as I can see, with no individual or group being criticised.

Yes Minxy you’re probably right, it probably is my perception that is skewed. But I want the ‘successful’ breastfeeders to appreciate that the reasons for not breast feeding are not always clear-cut.

I personally think Jordan needs a kick up the arse for promoting infant formula (well the magazine was definately going against guidelines for advertising formula when they showed her feeding her infant with a bottle of ready make formula with the label pointing outwards, clearly showing the manufacturer) and saying how 'easy' it was to bottlefeed and stating that her breasts are for Pete (or something like that).

Yes that is naughty…

Research has shown that advertising formula has an effect, so to say it doesn't isn't true.

I read the article you linked to and the research isn’t exactly conclusive.

Anyway, I don't care if it's flippant, Happy Mummy=Happy Baby, whether that be on a teat or nipple
And as for what's in formula, does it matter, seriously? I'm not being ignorant there either, just after breast and formula, there's NO other choice, so to get upset about what's in formula is madness, to know is power I agree, but to then worry or suggest it's a bad thing for LO, is just hurting Mummy's at the end of the day.

I love formula feeders and breast feeders and I think it's great we can have a thread where people feel they can voice there opinions, even if it gets heated, we're all very passionate about our babies, that's what counts
Happy feeding babies

Thank goodness someone speaks sense!


Anyway, that’s my opinion. I’m not trying to p*ss anyone off, I’m just defending my territory!

 

[Urchin]

Sorry, I read your reply twice, then read the whole thread from the start again, then read your reply again and I still can't quite see your point?

I'm not saying that to be argumentative, but you obviously have some issues with whats been said, but to be honest I don't think you are putting them across very well. Quoting so many different comments like that just means your point gets lost in my opinion. (but then again I do have pregnancy brain at the moment- sorry!)
No one has put bottle feeding moms down in this thread that I can see, many moms have openly said they bottlefed right from the start, just cos they wanted to... and they haven't had any issues with the breastfeeders comments. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, I just want to know what it is in this thread in particular that has upset you. Your replies to the quotes contained a lot of "probably's" so I don't know if you are upset because you really don't like people's posts or cos you are interpreting things into the posts that weren't there.

I didn't see one breastfeeder post that you, or anyone else, gave up too easily, everyone knows some women and babies cannot breastfeed, no one has posted otherwise in this thread.

I'm sorry your baby didn't want to continue breastfeeding, it sounds to me like you really wanted to feed for longer. These things happen though, I'm sure you're a great mom either way.

 

[Xena]

With Lydia I began with breastfeeding her, and I had such strong intentions that I wanted to breastfeed her until 1 year old and then go straight onto cows milk.

From the get-go I found it difficult though. My nipples cracked and were excrutiatingly painful.

Still I persevered and I found it got easier....until then I got mastitis.

that was agony, but STILL I continued....

until she was 3 months old. It was new year's day and we returned home from having dinner at my mother's house, and had a nice evening at home and then went to bed.
During the night DH fell ill - kept rushing to the loo and hurling everywhere.
I thought "poor him " - until about 3 hours later the same thing happened to me.
Dear god it was HORRIFIC. Both of us were hurling our guts out - him in the loo, me in the sink, and practically beating each other to death to use the toilet.
We were dizzy, weak, and felt like we were going to die it was so bad!

It was so bad that in the morning we had to phone my MIL to come in a taxi and pick us up so we could go and stay at her house until we were recovered, because neither of us could even sit up let alone look after Lydia!

It took roughly a week before we were better, and during this time neither of us could eat a bite without vomiting it straight back up again.

So of course, I couldn't breastfeed Lydia at the time. Not only was I afraid she might catch what we had via my milk, but as I wasn't eating, my milk supply was very low. So she had to be put onto formula.

By the time we were recovered, my milk supply was so low, and when I tried to get her to start feeding from me again she flat out refused to drink it! She'd gotten used to the taste of formula!

So that, as they say, was the end of that. I was gutted, but after a while I realised that it didn't really matter. She was getting fed and growing well and that was the main thing.

However, had I not fallen ill, I would have continued to breastfeed.


Now with Alex he is still exclusively breastfed. I've had no problems feeding him so far, so unless something comes up that forces me to stop, I'll breastfeed him until 1 year and then put him onto cows milk.
Having said that, if something DOES come up that means he has to go on formula, I won't beat myself up about it. I don't feel badly about formula anymore as I did before DD was born.


Oh and as for the whole young mother's and breastfeeding thing, for the record I'm 23

 

[valentine]

HelloKitty - I am also unsure what point you wish to make. I am really sorry if this thread has offended you or anyone on this forum - I sincerely believe that we all do what is best for our babies - we know them best and make the decisions on what is right for our famililes from the circumstances we are in.

i think the reason why lots of mums our age bottlefeed is so they can go out again, drinking etc?

I do hope not!!! This suggests that formula feeding mums are lazy and self-centered!!

I'd also like to say however, that I really disagree with this post you have made in response to tp above. In my view, tp is just saying that for some mums, one of the reasons they chose to formula feed, is to be able to 'get back to normal' or have a drink and that is important to them because of their age. She definitely does not suggest that therefore all formula feeders feed formula for this reason and therefore put their needs before their babies.

The thread was started (I think) to find out why some women chose not to breastfeed, and to find out if it was an age issue. I think it turned into an interesting discussion. I definitely understand that its not always choice when people end up formula feeding but that some people are happy to formula feed from day one.

Valentine xxx

 

[Hellokitty]

The point I was trying to make is that whenever this crops up, the majority of people seems to forget that whether or not a woman bf's is not always a matter of choice.

Apologies to trixipaws if offended but I felt that remark was particularly flippant!

 

[lauramumof2]

xena, that made me so sad, to have come so far and to have to stop because of that. You didnt really have much choice, like you say she could have picked it up.

I havent found anything offensive in this post or anything that made me feel bad. I was confident with Jess I made the right decision not to continue bf and with Joe a little less so but 14 months on he is a strapping big boy and well fed.

Half the battle is having confidence in your decision

 

[Urchin]

I don't think trixipaws meant that that's why everyone bottlefeeds though, just that lots of young moms choose to bottlefeed because of that, which seems a reasonable thing for her to think. I did a quick google and it seems to say that she is right anyway.

"1 in 2 adolescents reported that they chose to bottlefeed because of concerns they could not smoke, drink and use street drugs while breastfeeding"

Taken from here

I know we are not really talking about "adolescents" as such, but thats an interesting statistic all the same, if half of the younger moms use that as a reason is it not reasonable to expect that some older people will want to bottlefeed for that reason?
TBH it doesn't bother me if people want to bottlefeed for that, or any other reason anyway.... so I don't see what's "flippant" about that remark. I'm sure lots of women choose to bottlefeed for lots of different reasons, lots of them social.

The important thing here is that some people have that choice, some people don't, you appear to be one of the ones who didn't choose to bottlefeed but it has been something you have had to do.

Personally I think it takes a better mom to know when to turn to formula. My friend's baby refused to breastfeed for weeks and yet she didn't give up and her baby lost so much weight and was crying 24/7.

 

[Melly+2]

im a bottle feeder and proud. I had a go at bf but i couldnt after 6 weeks as i had low milk suply. Hopes happy and healthy and thats all that matters, and i know im doing a good job

 

[Tasha20]

Oh and as for the whole young mother's and breastfeeding thing, for the record I'm 23

Im 21 and started breastfeeding when I was 20.

The young mums are those under the age of 18, I doubt you will find many, if any moms breastfeeding under the age of 18, or well a very small minority.