What does "sleeping through the night" mean to you?

[littlemiss83]

This is taken from the NHS website & dis-proves your argument -

Separate cot

The safest place for your baby to sleep is in a crib or cot in a room with you for the first six months. You should never bring your baby into bed with you.
This is because accidents can happen. For example, you may roll over in your sleep, suffocating your baby. Your baby could also fall out of bed and be injured, or they could get caught between the wall and the bed

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Sudden-infant-death-syndrome/Pages/Prevention.aspx

 

[littlemiss83]

read this article CAREFULLY it says a lot in a very unbiased way

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/oct/16/sudden-infant-death-syndrome-children

will be back with more shortly

Think i'll be sticking with what the NHS say rather than some newspaper

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

or this from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4617976.stm

both explictly say that SAFE co-sleeping is far far safer than

failing asleep on a sofa with a child (which is utterly and ridiculously dangerous)

or unsafely co-sleeping, eg with a parent who smokes or drinks heavily or without modifying sleeping arrangements to account for a child, like using looser blankets and being careful with pillows.

 

[littlemiss83]

OMG i really suggest you research this for yourself because all i am doing is typing into google same as you could!

It actually says that IN THE NHS BOOK they give you when your baby is born!

Ehhhhh I think its you that needs to do some research - see what i've posted, its NHS guidelines from the NHS website.

Sorry if your argument didn't work out as planned, maybe you should phone the NHS and ask them to change their website if you think they are wrong

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

So you would rather blindly follow advice rather than read the study it was based on?

thats crazy to me.

it is better for a child to be in a seperate cot in the same room if safe co-sleeping rules are not met. If you had actually read either of the articles i had posted you would see that. But if you insist on being bloody minded about it there is very little else i can say

I would just rather be informed than spoonfed

 

[littlemiss83]

Hmmmm lets see - NHS or BBC

Think I know who I trust to help with my baby given the fact the NHS has been supporting me through pregnancy & helping me bring my baby into the world

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

The reference to the NHS book was regarding sleeping on a sofa with a baby. Which is very very dangerous.

the evidence to promote co-sleeping is massive, however it is easier to say 'dont' than to say 'do but do safely'

so there is an issue there... but i would rather do and do safely because i have actually read up LOTS on it rather than blindly believing the NHS (because they are clearly NOT infalliable)

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

FFS i am not suggesting you CHOOSE between the NHS or the BBC, but that you do your OWN research and make your OWN mind up, its not about choose who spoon feeds you, its about choosing not to be spoonfed!

 

[littlemiss83]

So you would rather blindly follow advice rather than read the study it was based on?

thats crazy to me.

it is better for a child to be in a seperate cot in the same room if safe co-sleeping rules are not met. If you had actually read either of the articles i had posted you would see that. But if you insist on being bloody minded about it there is very little else i can say

I would just rather be informed than spoonfed

You are entitled to take the information the way you want to - it quite clearly says on the NHS website

Once again I have copied & pasted

The safest place for your baby to sleep is in a crib or cot in a room with you for the first six months. You should never bring your baby into bed with you.

I hardly think this is mis-informed or spoonfed. As I said, the NHS will help birth my baby, not any other website, newspaper or tv company. I have put my life in their hands before & i am happy to put my babies life in their hands.

You said -
it is better for a child to be in a seperate cot in the same room if safe co-sleeping rules are not met -

It doesn't say that - it says as above, the safest place for baby to sleep is in a crib or cot , regardless of how safe co-sleeping is.

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

so i have provided studies, expert reccomendations and articles detailing very careful that co-sleeping when done safely is safer than sleeping in a cot... and you copy and paste one sentance, written by anybody in the NHS and you think that this is infalliable.

That is being spoonfed, sorry but it is

you do what you like love, i am not interested in arguing semantics with you, the information is there if people choose to read it. As i said, is it easier to have a blanket rule than label the dangers and safety aspects of co-sleeping, its a subject the NHS come under much scruntiny for and is completely divided, you will find MANY midwives, doctors who reccomend safe co-sleeping - one website is just that, one website

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

can i just add that until a few years ago the NHS reccomended weaning at 4 months, this changed, they reccomended bottle feeding, this changed, they reccomended babies sleeping on their front, this changed

do the research for yourself because of course as new information comes in, things change!

the fact is, in countries where co-sleeping is normal, there are little to no cases of SIDS without underlying health problems.

but of course, we should ignore all of that, because we can just read one thing on a website and take it as fact!! looool

 

[littlemiss83]

Tbh I wouldn't be very happy if my MW or doctor went against the advice from the NHS, but thats my personal opinion.

I know what your saying about there being studies ect & you also need to take into consideration who carried out these studies, how many people took part, was it taken part over a diverse range of ppl.

Your first statement about that was a bit misleading which has led to this"argument" you said...co-sleeping is far far safer than cot sleeping, and upon a simple look at the NHS website you were already proved wrong (by them) - if you had said...many studies say.....rather than what you did say which sounded like fact..it might not have ended up like this. That is what got my back up.

I understand if you dont want to follow the NHS guildelines but many ppl do & unfortunately it doesn't matter what studies ect are going on, majority of ppl will go to the NHS for guidance, the same as, if baby was found not breathing one night, i'm sure an NHS ambulance would be phoned & they would be relyed on to save baby - but they aren't good enough to take some simple advice from their website.

I think we should agree to disagree on this one, others reading this have the right to follow NHS guidelines or ignore NHS guidelines, no matter how much you butter it up, thats what it comes down to.

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

where do you think NHS guidelines come from? Its from these studies!!!!

these are not studies done outside of the NHS these are studies done by doctors who are part of the NHS!

It is safer, i have proven that with a number of articles that you have refused to read because you are so totally focused on one sentence on the NHS website. Which is fine, but it will not stop me promoting safe co-sleeping as a safer environment for children

because it is.


as i said, NHS guidelines change all the time, about all sorts of things, they are not infalliable and do not claim to be.

Much better to do the research for yourself which the NHS and WHO (the world health organisation, who ALSO promote safe co-sleeping as a safer alternative to cot sleeping) provide. It is not 'going against' the NHS to follow up to date information that they have studied, quite the opposite in fact!

 

[littlemiss83]

where do you think NHS guidelines come from? Its from these studies!!!!

these are not studies done outside of the NHS these are studies done by doctors who are part of the NHS!

It is safer, i have proven that with a number of articles that you have refused to read because you are so totally focused on one sentence on the NHS website. Which is fine, but it will not stop me promoting safe co-sleeping as a safer environment for children

because it is.


as i said, NHS guidelines change all the time, about all sorts of things, they are not infalliable and do not claim to be.

Much better to do the research for yourself which the NHS and WHO (the world health organisation, who ALSO promote safe co-sleeping as a safer alternative to cot sleeping) provide. It is not 'going against' the NHS to follow up to date information that they have studied, quite the opposite in fact!

Im starting to think you just want an argument for the sake of an argument.



It is going against NHS advice if you co-sleep, end of - it quite clearly says on their website, babies under 6months should not co-sleep. Therefore if you co-sleep you are going against their advice. It really couldnt be any more simple than that.

Maybe one of the NHS employees would be able to help you further if you want an argument about it, I am clearly stating what it says there, you either chose to follow what the NHS say or you dont, it doesn't really bother me one way or the other.

You can keep posting arguments/studies ect to try & prove the NHS wrong, but I do & always will hold them in higher authority.

co-sleeping may fit easy into your life, but it doesn't stop the guidelines being the guidelines. Did you visit a MW when pregnant or give birth in an NHS hospital? Did you look up studies for all the advice/medical attention they gave you? Or did you think - I trust these ppl. Because thats what I think, and if I didn't trust them I sure as hell wouldn't use them for a medical emergency.

I think you should do a complaint letter/email to the NHS as you are convinced they are giving out wrong info & that can be very dangerous to the general public.

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

i dont need to argue with you, i have done my research and i am very comfortable with it, i dont really give two hoots where your child sleeps However, i will always promote information which i believe and have proof of being safe and true.

Regardless of one sentence on a website

fact is, Co-sleeping is safer if you breastfeed
co-sleeping is ONLY safe if you do not use duvets
co-sleeping requires thought and change to the average adult bed

it is easier for the NHS to say 'don't co sleep' than to educate about the dangers of co-sleeping and promote it safely

Of course i am not the only person who believes this, of course there are many bodies of people (NHS doctors included) who would love to see the blanket rule adjusted to include a more rounded view of what safe co-sleeping is and how to go about doing it.

But if you think people should stop promoting what they KNOW to be true (through worldwide, nationwide and personal study) because of one sentence on a website, you are going to be finding yourself in these circular arguments a lot.

I would far rather discuss the issues and concerns surrounding the topic, or the topic itself than this nonsense semantics.

You asked me a series of questions - you asked me to prove that sleeping on a sofa with your child is dangerous and i did, you then twisted that information and when i revoked it, you found one sentence on an NHS website, without even an article to back it up or explain it and you refuse to discuss the matter further

this is nothing more than one persons NEED to be right, it is ridiculous and pointless. We should be discussing co-sleeping, not your need to be right or to prove me wrong.

 

[tinytoes]

Can I just ask (getting back to the question on sleeping through the night ) . Aoibheann has been waking almost every night sobbing and screaming . Shes 19 months I always pop in cuddle her and settle her back down , this somethimes involves me sitting with her until she sleeps and Im shattered as Lily has a feed at 5 or 6 every morning . Can anyone suggest what might be causing this and how to solve it ?

 

[Mamafy]

All ok here?

Girls try to stick to chatting things out without scrapping, my 2 lo's are sick with high temps and to answer OP's question; 8 hours would be feckin fantastic atm but atm I'm being tag teamed by coughing choking and puking!

So keep it amicable or fight elsewhere

Carry on..

 

[littlemiss83]

i dont need to argue with you, i have done my research and i am very comfortable with it, i dont really give two hoots where your child sleeps However, i will always promote information which i believe and have proof of being safe and true.

Regardless of one sentence on a website

fact is, Co-sleeping is safer if you breastfeed
co-sleeping is ONLY safe if you do not use duvets
co-sleeping requires thought and change to the average adult bed

it is easier for the NHS to say 'don't co sleep' than to educate about the dangers of co-sleeping and promote it safely

Of course i am not the only person who believes this, of course there are many bodies of people (NHS doctors included) who would love to see the blanket rule adjusted to include a more rounded view of what safe co-sleeping is and how to go about doing it.

But if you think people should stop promoting what they KNOW to be true (through worldwide, nationwide and personal study) because of one sentence on a website, you are going to be finding yourself in these circular arguments a lot.

I would far rather discuss the issues and concerns surrounding the topic, or the topic itself than this nonsense semantics.

You asked me a series of questions - you asked me to prove that sleeping on a sofa with your child is dangerous and i did, you then twisted that information and when i revoked it, you found one sentence on an NHS website, without even an article to back it up or explain it and you refuse to discuss the matter further

this is nothing more than one persons NEED to be right, it is ridiculous and pointless. We should be discussing co-sleeping, not your need to be right or to prove me wrong.

I NEVER asked you any such thing, I am fully aware how dangerous sleeping on a sofa is with a child - Infact I have not even mentioned anything on the subject of sleeping on a sofa!!! Could you quote me if you still believe this to be true!!

I am also fully aware of not using duvets ect - Believe it or not, I co-slept with my first child, for around 2 months untill my HV told me only to co-sleep during the time of feeding then move baby into a cot.

You stated that co-sleeping was safer - FACT - And I think its a bit unfair for others who may read. As many ppl base their opinions of fact on what the NHS say.

Please dont blame me because I disputed what you said, as I said, it isn't my fault, if you disagree then its the NHS's fault for giving out (in your eyes) wrong information.

 

[Mamafy]

What's with all the quoting from nhs websites? I haven't read through but girls can you remember the forum isn't about proving facts and figures; you've gotgoogle for that! Keep it to opinion and quit you 2 trying to prove who is right/wrong we all have opinions; we're all hormonal women

 

[littlemiss83]

Sorry Mamafy

Was going to end it with last post but was wrongly quoted & wanted to clear it up.

Happy to get back to topic!!