MMR

[Sarah&Braydon]

well as some of u know I had a severe reaction to my MMR resulting in me suffering a feberal convulsion (fit) for 40 mins!
for this reason i am very worried about Braydon havin his, i really want him to have it an am not worried about the autism fear as far as i can see its not been proven (if im wrong please say) and the fear of him catching MEASLES, MUMPS AND RUBELLA. is alot worse,
well i spoke to my GP about my fears and he sed he would write to the hospital to see wot they say. iv just had a letter from the to say they want B to have his in hospital, which im not sure how i feel about this as does that mean there doing it just so i dont worry? or coz they think B is in danger of the same thing i went thro??

 

[sarah113]

i would say there just doing it in hospital for procaution, just incase the same thing happens to him

 

[Strangeness]

I would say it's just to be sure hun. I'm sure he'll be fine but seen as you had a reaction it's just best to be on the safe side! Try not to worry hun, he'll do brill! Aaron's got his a week on monday, poor babies!

 

[Gnomentum]

Playing devils advocate here.. but i doubt you'll find many people of my generation (I'm 32) who haven't had at least two of the three (the illnesses themselves) and probably all three. I've had all three; theydidn't have vaccines for them when I was a baby.

None are really that bad and to my mind if a kid doesn't experience the normal (and they ARE normal) childhood illnesses, they don't have a realistic conception of illness and their bodies get no chance to learn how to recover.

Balance that against the possible risks of the vaccine and as far as I can see it's ALL bad. For myself, I'd happily take catching all three illnesses over the possibility of a 40 minute fit and the possibility of associated brain damage.

I for one won't be consenting to MMR or any of its constituents for my child.

 

[Urchin]

I was worried about the combined vaccine with Mason so we forked out the money to have it seperately.

The possible complications of measles can be very serious too, and they too include convulsions and brain damage.

What are the possible complications of measles?

* Ear infection which causes earache is a common complication.
* A febrile convulsion (fit) occurs in about 1 in 200 cases. This can be alarming, but full recovery is usual.
* Infections of the airways such as bronchitis and croup are common. These are distressing, but are not usually serious.
* Pneumonia (lung infection) is a serious complication that sometimes develops. Typical symptoms include fast or difficult breathing, chest pains, and generally becoming more ill.
* Brain inflammation (encephalitis) is a rare but very serious complication. It occurs in about 1 in 5000 cases. It typically causes drowsiness, headache, and vomiting which starts about 7-10 days after the onset of the rash. Encephalitis may cause brain damage. Some children die from this complication.
* Squint is thought to be more common than usual in children who have had measles. The virus may affect the nerve or muscles to the eye.
* A very rare brain disease called sub-acute sclerosing panencephalitis develops years later in a small number of people who have had measles.

If I hadn't vaccinated him, and Mason had caught one of the 3, imagine if he passed it onto another child who had serious complications. I couldn't live with that, so I vaccinated him, even though it cost us over £300.

 

[beanie]

I was very ill with measles when I was 2 but luckily for me I did not suffer any serious effects. For that reason Seren will be vaccinated against them. However we are still not decided about the MMR or the single vaccinnes. Can you wait a bit as we wouldn't be able to afford it when she is 13 months but would be able to later on in the year??

 

[Urchin]

I was very ill with measles when I was 2 but luckily for me I did not suffer any serious effects. For that reason Seren will be vaccinated against them. However we are still not decided about the MMR or the single vaccinnes. Can you wait a bit as we wouldn't be able to afford it when she is 13 months but would be able to later on in the year??

You don't have to pay the full amount up front, only for each vaccination as she has it, with 6-8 weeks gaps between them.

 

[Strangeness]

I'm sorry but the MMR is very important and if children don't have it it can make them seriously ill. The side effect sarah had was very rare and you're more likely to fit from measles than the vaccine.

 

Sarah I'm sure they are doing it more for your peace of mind that he will be in the right place if anything should happen more than anything else.

The benefits outweigh the risks in my opinion, and I'd rather he had that that caught one of these infections. It's just not worth the risk, I'd hate for hi not to have it, then get something and pas it to another id who wasn't vacinated. It'd our own choice at the end of the day, but at least 80% of kids (I think, might be more) have to be fully vacinised to get the full effect

 

[K X]

I had mumps when I was younger, it was horrendously sore!

 

[Sarah&Braydon]

he will be having the vacine its just im so worried he fits and as they have sed hell be having it in hospital its got me all worried

 

[gingerpig]

Well I can't have the flu vaccine because it's suspended in egg albumen which I am allergic too. I have been told though, if I ever really needed the vaccine then it would be administered in hospital. It really is a precautionary measure and at least if he is hospital if the something did happen he would be in the best place. Having said that, just because the vaccine will be administered in hospital doesn't mean something will happen, just means on the very small possibility something might, your son will be in the best place for it. Dont blame you for being worried, but I'm sure it will be ok ((((hugs))).

 

[Gnomentum]

I'm not wishing to rock the boat here, or make anyone feel bad, but I'm totally at a loss as to why everyone is so pro the vaccines..

As I said before, I've had all three as childhood illnesses and after a brief ask round people of my age, so have most of my peers.. we're all fine, they made us poorly for a couple of weeks at most (german measles barely being noticeable; though of COURSE I appreciate the risks to pregnant women I don't understand the hysteria about kids getting it)..

Is there something that's changed about the severity of these illnesses in the last 30 years? Or is it attitudes to the acceptable level of 'poorly' we allow our kids to have?

To my mind over-vaccination is a product of the same mindset that has rendered antibiotics less and less effective by the year - do we really want to be producing a strain of supermumps or supermeasles? Or has this already happened through medical over interference and is that why everyone's so hysterical now about illnesses that were considered the norm such a short while ago?

 

[Urchin]

To my mind over-vaccination is a product of the same mindset that has rendered antibiotics less and less effective by the year - do we really want to be producing a strain of supermumps or supermeasles?

Do you have any scientific evidence that backs this up? Or are you just guessing?
The fact is if everyone vaccinated, measles wouldn't exist.

Like I said in my post, it's not just my child I am vaccinating for, it's that pregnant woman (who could miscarry) and other children who could catch it off him and end up with serious complications.

Every health organisation in the world is pro vaccine, so maybe thats why just about everyone on this forum is planning to vaccinate except you.

 

[Gnomentum]

Do you have any scientific evidence that backs this up? Or are you just guessing?
The fact is if everyone vaccinated, measles wouldn't exist.

That backs what up? The fact that antibiotics are becoming useless or the idea that over vaccination may cause similar problems?

Well, the antibiotics thing is pretty much accepted by everyone now even though the medical profession and the food production industries seem to be dragging their heels in actually halting the problems they are causing. It's one of the main reasons, to my mind, for going organic where possible and for avoiding antibiotics where it's at all avoidable.

I don't have any scientific evidence to back up the assumption that vaccinating for everything will cause problems down the line, no. But until mad cow disease, there was no scientific evidence to say that you shouldn't feed cows meat, either. It's called logical assumption and common sense rather than blindly following everything you're told by people who have various vested interests they don't like to tell you about.

The world health organisations get FUNDING for their immunisation programmes without which they could not do a lot of their other work. And the environments in africa are rather different to the environment here. Plus - do you for one moment think the kids in third world countries get even the smallest fraction of the insane numbers of vaccinations they do here? Nope... they prioritise for the illnesses most likely to cause a risk in that particular environment.

Your GP also has a vested interest in immunisation. If I was a GP, so would I. Short term benefits of not getting a clinic full of spotty babies? High, if you work there. Long term downfalls? Wellll... we'll let future generations deal with that, shall we?

I'm certainly not advocating not immunising against serious illnesses; I'm not that stupid or shortsighted. But I AM saying, why immunise against illnesses like this - they were not only commonplace but an expected part of childhood only a few years ago.

I could give you links to follow, to get the side of it your doctors DON'T tell you. If you like, I will. There's a damn good one off the nappy lady site, for starters. But I figure if you're actually interested, you'll take a look for yourself.

 

[Urchin]

Do you have any scientific evidence that backs this up? Or are you just guessing?
The fact is if everyone vaccinated, measles wouldn't exist.

That backs what up? The fact that antibiotics are becoming useless or the idea that over vaccination may cause similar problems?

I was talking about how we are going to make a "supermeasles" no one is disputing the antibiotics thing, but like I said, measles wouldn't exist if everyone vaccinated.

The world health organisations get FUNDING for their immunisation programmes without which they could not do a lot of their other work.

So according to you, Mozambique is currently vaccinating 8.7 million children just so they can get funding from the WHA for other things?

But I AM saying, why immunise against illnesses like this - they were not only commonplace but an expected part of childhood only a few years ago.

Yes and a few years ago these were the statistics:

Before vaccines, parents in the United States could expect that every year:

* Polio would paralyze 10,000 children.
* Rubella (German measles) would cause birth defects and mental ******ation in as many as 20,000 newborns.
* Measles would infect about 4 million children, killing 3,000.
* Diphtheria would be one of the most common causes of death in school-aged children.
* A bacterium called Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) would cause meningitis in 15,000 children, leaving many with permanent brain damage.
* Pertussis (whooping cough) would kill thousands of infants.

Vaccines have reduced and, in some cases, eliminated many diseases that killed or severely disabled people just a few generations before.

Like I said before, if my unvaccinated child gave measles to a pregnant women her baby could DIE! I couldn't live with that.

I could give you links to follow, to get the side of it your doctors DON'T tell you. If you like, I will. There's a damn good one off the nappy lady site, for starters. But I figure if you're actually interested, you'll take a look for yourself.

I did a fair amount of research on this when I decided to get the seperate vaccines for my son 3 years ago. I decided to immunise.

 

[Gnomentum]

http://www.vaccination.co.uk/ for anyone interested in alternative arguments. It gives a good starting point. And it's interesting that the main 'pro' points given (BY the pro side) are financial and due to pressure on the health services.

Urchin, I'm glad you researched before coming to your decision, but I would like to point out that I am researching too (and rather deeper than just looking at one website, may I add). So far I am unconvinced that the myriad immunisations out there are what's right for my baby, although I do accept that some of them would be beneficial.

I'd address each point you made, but as most of them were either self-contradictory, irrelevant (referencing statistics from BEFORE vaccinations were available, which harks back to a time when hygeine and the common man's understanding of care of the sick were unrecognisable to today's standards seemed particularly inappropriate as an argument) or seemed to totally misinterpret what I said, I'd rather you went back and re-read my post first. That way perhaps we can have a sensible discussion and actually take on board what the other person is saying.. whether we agree with it or not.

I KNOW you are doing what you feel is right for your baby. I'd just appreciate it if you'd understand that not everyone comes to the same conclusion, and that there is a lot of evidence to support my side of the argument too. I'm NOT coming to the decisions I am because I'm uncaring, I'm doing it because I feel that's what's right.

 

[Urchin]

I'd address each point you made, but as most of them were either self-contradictory, irrelevant (referencing statistics from BEFORE vaccinations were available, which harks back to a time when hygeine and the common man's understanding of care of the sick were unrecognisable to today's standards seemed particularly inappropriate as an argument)

1: You admitted your "supermeasles" argument was guesswork. Yet somehow my fact-based arguments are irrelevant? I know there are many reasons why some people may think vaccinating against measles is dangerous and wrong, so why not quote these reasons instead of making up your own?

2: I quoted information from before vaccines were available because every single one of your posts on the subect has referenced the "it didn't do us any harm years ago when the vaccines weren't available" point. If it's not relevant then maybe you should stop talking about it.

Look, I'm just saying my reason's for deciding to immunise, and I've done it without attempting to insult you. I don't need to keep repeating myself on this, I'm not going to change my mind, neither are you.

 

If I went to school and dropped Damien off, found out a kid wasn't vaccinated and I knew pregnant people would be dropping their children there, I would personally think that they should be warned that they could be putting themselves at risk. There are vaccines for a reason. To PROTECT us, our children and unborn.

 

[beanie]

I find this debate really interesting. Will be doing more reading around.