My understanding is that liver has high vitamin A which can be a concern with birth defects. So after the risk of birth defects has passed (which it has for all of us), I see no reason to avoid liver. It’s so nutritious and I ate soooo much liver pâté with my son and youngest daughter cause I craved it like crazy from about 20 weeks on.
*****February 2019 mummies*****
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My flu shot didn't make me feel awful but it did really hurt my arm.
You look great Phillipa
I don't know it says the pictures are too big but I managed to upload my 12 week scan photo fine. Just when I've tried to post bump pictures or my 20 week scan I've had issues
You look great Phillipa
I don't know it says the pictures are too big but I managed to upload my 12 week scan photo fine. Just when I've tried to post bump pictures or my 20 week scan I've had issues
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Kholl- I always value your opinion.
How come you aren't getting the flu shot during pregnancy?
Also, you eat sushi? I want to eat is SO bad, but I'm afraid. They say to avoid it!
How come you aren't getting the flu shot during pregnancy?
Also, you eat sushi? I want to eat is SO bad, but I'm afraid. They say to avoid it!
AlwaysCoffee, it's all about the source when it comes to sushi! Will I go to a sushi boat place or get sushi from the local 7-11? um, no. But will I go to my local sushi place that I know and love and trust? Absolutely! Also it's a HUGE craving of mine and I am just not going to deny it anymore! I figure pregnant women in Japan must still eat sushi, right? Seems unnecessary for us to avoid it if it's from a trustworthy place... my midwife agrees with me, too, so that helps!
And I don't get any vaccines during pregnancy. The research for their efficacy and safety for unborn babies just is not there. The vaccine inserts explicitly say that they're not intended for pregnant women and that the vaccine manufacturers are not responsible for adverse effects on the mother or baby. But the biggest reason for me is that the kids' pediatrician strongly recommends against pregnant women getting vaccines. She says all the infants she sees hospitalized with whooping cough or the flu are the ones who's moms had the shots during pregnancy, and there just isn't the research there to prove that they are totally safe or effective. I trust this pediatrician more than any other medical professional I've ever met and she is very reasonable and moderate. She is still pro-vaccine overall (as am I!) but during pregnancy the evidence simply isn't there.
Furthermore, we have all had flu shots and had the flu, and once my daughter got the flu mist and it gave her pneumonia (diagnosed and confirmed by multiple doctors), and every year they say the same thing: "It's a great match this year!" and then by March they say "Whoops, only 10% efficacy, maybe next year..." I just don't buy it anymore, the flu shot seems more like a shot in the dark! Even one of my BFFs, who is a pharmacist, says she believes they will only start recommending the flu shot for at-risk populations (elderly, asthmatics, etc) because of all the issues.
Finally, my son has SEVERE vaccine reactions
They are so awful that he hasn't had any shots since he was 18 months old. I don't know if this baby will have the same issue, so I believe I have to play it safe and wait to vaccinate until he or she is on the outside and we can monitor the effects.
Like I said, I am absolutely pro-vaccine in general, and at the same time I am very deliberate about the when and how. For example, I don't get hep B for the baby in the hospital either; I wait until the first pediatrician visit.
Of course, I don't have ANY way of knowing whether I'm doing the right thing! I don't blink when other women get shots during pregnancy or at birth or whenever. I think it's so, SO hard to know exactly how to vaccinate the right way, and all the recommendations are valuable and worth taking very seriously, and having a well-educated and reasonable doctor on your side is an absolute godsend. For my own family I do make a couple little tweaks, and I feel like we have reached decisions that feel right for us, at least right now.
I think it's so hard, too, because we can't use maternal instincts when it comes to vaccines... for me, every instinct in my body screams "NEVER INJECT YOUR INFANT WITH DISEASE AND CHEMICALS" but of course it's not that simple, right? The when/how/way to vaccinate is a choice you have to make with logic and evidence and data. And a great team of doctors on your side, too!
And I don't get any vaccines during pregnancy. The research for their efficacy and safety for unborn babies just is not there. The vaccine inserts explicitly say that they're not intended for pregnant women and that the vaccine manufacturers are not responsible for adverse effects on the mother or baby. But the biggest reason for me is that the kids' pediatrician strongly recommends against pregnant women getting vaccines. She says all the infants she sees hospitalized with whooping cough or the flu are the ones who's moms had the shots during pregnancy, and there just isn't the research there to prove that they are totally safe or effective. I trust this pediatrician more than any other medical professional I've ever met and she is very reasonable and moderate. She is still pro-vaccine overall (as am I!) but during pregnancy the evidence simply isn't there.
Furthermore, we have all had flu shots and had the flu, and once my daughter got the flu mist and it gave her pneumonia (diagnosed and confirmed by multiple doctors), and every year they say the same thing: "It's a great match this year!" and then by March they say "Whoops, only 10% efficacy, maybe next year..." I just don't buy it anymore, the flu shot seems more like a shot in the dark! Even one of my BFFs, who is a pharmacist, says she believes they will only start recommending the flu shot for at-risk populations (elderly, asthmatics, etc) because of all the issues.
Finally, my son has SEVERE vaccine reactions
They are so awful that he hasn't had any shots since he was 18 months old. I don't know if this baby will have the same issue, so I believe I have to play it safe and wait to vaccinate until he or she is on the outside and we can monitor the effects.Like I said, I am absolutely pro-vaccine in general, and at the same time I am very deliberate about the when and how. For example, I don't get hep B for the baby in the hospital either; I wait until the first pediatrician visit.
Of course, I don't have ANY way of knowing whether I'm doing the right thing! I don't blink when other women get shots during pregnancy or at birth or whenever. I think it's so, SO hard to know exactly how to vaccinate the right way, and all the recommendations are valuable and worth taking very seriously, and having a well-educated and reasonable doctor on your side is an absolute godsend. For my own family I do make a couple little tweaks, and I feel like we have reached decisions that feel right for us, at least right now.
I think it's so hard, too, because we can't use maternal instincts when it comes to vaccines... for me, every instinct in my body screams "NEVER INJECT YOUR INFANT WITH DISEASE AND CHEMICALS" but of course it's not that simple, right? The when/how/way to vaccinate is a choice you have to make with logic and evidence and data. And a great team of doctors on your side, too!
https://avivaromm.com/flu-vaccine-in-pregnancy-whats-a-girl-to-do/
I love this article, it is very balanced and informative
I love this article, it is very balanced and informative
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Thread hopping as I found the flu vaccine stuff interesting as Im a bit undecided about whether to get it while Im pregnant, here in the uk we dont routinely get flu vaccines only at-risk people like the elderly or people with medical conditions and compromised immune systems get it, the vast majority of the population will not get one, Ive never had the flu before so Im thinking of skipping it, thanks for posting that info kholl Ill have a read x
^^I had mine for that very reason. Only at risk people are offered it and since pregnant people are on at list I think it makes sense to have it. Especially having a winter baby.
The research I've seen and what my doctors and midwife have told me is that you do pass on your antibodies through the placenta. At my surgery they have also had a case a few years ago of a baby girl getting whooping cough before she was old enough for the vaccine herself - so personally I think it's important to have it. I'm also a bit of a believer that the NHS wouldn't offer them to people if they didn't think we needed them.
The research I've seen and what my doctors and midwife have told me is that you do pass on your antibodies through the placenta. At my surgery they have also had a case a few years ago of a baby girl getting whooping cough before she was old enough for the vaccine herself - so personally I think it's important to have it. I'm also a bit of a believer that the NHS wouldn't offer them to people if they didn't think we needed them.
I think in the UK, its only considered necessary if you're having a winter baby, as we only vaccinate at-risk groups here. So my last son was born in October, so I thought as winter had only just started I didn't go for the jab, but as this time I've got to go through the whole winter and be pregnant, I went for it. I actually feel much better today, it was just yesterday I felt rotten! My son is having his flu vaccine next week. I'm very pro-vaccine, but it is totally a personal choice, and I think everyone should do exactly as they feel comfortable doing
Does anyone know.....if you had the whooping cough vaccine before, are you then covered, or do you need to have it again?
Does anyone know.....if you had the whooping cough vaccine before, are you then covered, or do you need to have it again?
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Thanks Kholl! 
It's such a hard subject because ultimately, I want to do what is best for baby and I. But both sides seem very valid. It's really hard. I've done so much research and it makes my brain hurt. I wish I could just have a crystal ball and see what the future holds!!
It's such a hard subject because ultimately, I want to do what is best for baby and I. But both sides seem very valid. It's really hard. I've done so much research and it makes my brain hurt. I wish I could just have a crystal ball and see what the future holds!!
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You should get whooping vaccine around 27-36 weeks I believe. The one you had as a kid doesn't count. This is a booster and is required. I'm definitely getting that.
Here they say anytime from 16 weeks for whooping cough; my doctors wanted me to wait until after my 20 week scan so I had my flu at 18 weeks and whooping cough at 20. Would have had them together but didn't realise she was going to say wait until 20 haha. Although glad I had the flu when I did as everyone at work was falling apart from colds and flus the following week and I was fine. (Everyone may be a slight over estimation haha but a fair few)
Always Coffee- read that Aviva Romm article, it helped me a lot!
It is a hard subject and if I’m honest I don’t feel 100% comfortable with my decision- but I also wouldn’t feel 100% comfortable either way because of my personality haha. It is very hard for me to decipher which way is up in this particular case. For me, for all the reasons above, I am slightly more comfortable not getting shots while pregnant. So I go with that. But of course, I don’t know if I’m right!
I think part of it is that I don't see pregnant women as automatically being "at risk" based on the actual data - as outlined in that article I linked. Of course, many of them are, but the numbers suggest that pregnancy doesn't automatically equal at risk.
It is so hard! And like I said, overall I am also very PRO-vaccine (I keep feeling the need to clarify that haha, that's my own insecurity). I think for me personally I have the added anxiety of watching my son suffer through truly terrifying vaccine reactions and I have no idea what the implications are for an unborn baby who may have the same issues. And no one seems to be able to tell me, either, which is equally frustrating.
I appreciate the civil dialogue around this topic, as I know conversations about vaccines can go rogue and get personal pretty quickly... so thanks.
How is everyone feeling? I can't believe I'm almost 24 weeks... viability day! Still such a long way to go, but it feels like a major milestone, almost like the 12-week one. With holidays fast approaching, this pregnancy is absolutely flying by. I have been exercising a ton still, going to my barre classes 4-5 times a week and able to walk super long distances still with no issues. I am starting to pee a LOT though. Yesterday I had to leave my hour-long barre class FOUR times to pee. After I had gone right before walking in! So 5 times in one hour...! It doesn't stay that frequent throughout the day but it is very frequent. And I'm getting up to pee at least 5 times a night, too.
It is a hard subject and if I’m honest I don’t feel 100% comfortable with my decision- but I also wouldn’t feel 100% comfortable either way because of my personality haha. It is very hard for me to decipher which way is up in this particular case. For me, for all the reasons above, I am slightly more comfortable not getting shots while pregnant. So I go with that. But of course, I don’t know if I’m right!
I think part of it is that I don't see pregnant women as automatically being "at risk" based on the actual data - as outlined in that article I linked. Of course, many of them are, but the numbers suggest that pregnancy doesn't automatically equal at risk.
It is so hard! And like I said, overall I am also very PRO-vaccine (I keep feeling the need to clarify that haha, that's my own insecurity). I think for me personally I have the added anxiety of watching my son suffer through truly terrifying vaccine reactions and I have no idea what the implications are for an unborn baby who may have the same issues. And no one seems to be able to tell me, either, which is equally frustrating.
I appreciate the civil dialogue around this topic, as I know conversations about vaccines can go rogue and get personal pretty quickly... so thanks.
How is everyone feeling? I can't believe I'm almost 24 weeks... viability day! Still such a long way to go, but it feels like a major milestone, almost like the 12-week one. With holidays fast approaching, this pregnancy is absolutely flying by. I have been exercising a ton still, going to my barre classes 4-5 times a week and able to walk super long distances still with no issues. I am starting to pee a LOT though. Yesterday I had to leave my hour-long barre class FOUR times to pee. After I had gone right before walking in! So 5 times in one hour...! It doesn't stay that frequent throughout the day but it is very frequent. And I'm getting up to pee at least 5 times a night, too.
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Oh and AlwaysCoffee - researching this topic is a freaking land mine because there is so much EMOTION driving both sides. It's very, very difficult to find a calm and balanced resource cause you're either going to find "YOU ARE KILLING YOUR CHILD BY VACCINATING, YOU IGNORANT FOOL" or "YOU ARE KILLING YOUR CHILD AND ALL THE OTHER CHILDREN BY NOT VACCINATING, YOU MONSTER"
I mean, seriously.
The vaccine argument is so emotionally-driven because, honestly, it SHOULD be. But the discussion itself needs to be calm and rational. Like, the emotion drives you to seek out the research, but the research itself and the discussion itself needs to be logical and free from emotion. That's why it's so important to find a balanced resource. That's part of why I love that Aviva Romm article; she ends with saying, here's what to do if you don't get the shot, and here's what to do if you do get the shot, and no worries or judgment either way. That's why I value our kids' pediatrician (well, OLD pediatrician, since our insurance changed... breaks my heart) so much. She is so balanced and truly understands both sides and gave calm, logical, educated responses to all my questions and truly knows both sides of the argument (about vaccines, and about countless other things as well).
My biggest piece of advice is find a medical professional you love and TRUST and follow their lead. That's not easy! But it's essential. I made my head spin with all the "research" I attempted before I finally found someone I could just ASK. I trusted her to do the research herself (and use, you know, ACTUAL medical journals instead of quack sites on Dr Google) and she always had a very balanced outlook. Sometimes I feel very comfortable in my decisions and I just KNOW what I'm doing is right. the other 98% of the time, I ask her, and do what she says. You need someone like that, because we can't be experts in everything. We can't be a jack-of-all-trades. It's too overwhelming. No one can be an expert in more than a couple things - the amount of time one most devote to become a true expert, to be able to truly analyze data and know the most trustworthy sources, is beyond comprehension. So find someone who HAS that kind of time, and who DOES know how to think about and analyze this issue, and use their knowledge. That's the wisest and most efficient use of YOUR time.
I mean, seriously.
The vaccine argument is so emotionally-driven because, honestly, it SHOULD be. But the discussion itself needs to be calm and rational. Like, the emotion drives you to seek out the research, but the research itself and the discussion itself needs to be logical and free from emotion. That's why it's so important to find a balanced resource. That's part of why I love that Aviva Romm article; she ends with saying, here's what to do if you don't get the shot, and here's what to do if you do get the shot, and no worries or judgment either way. That's why I value our kids' pediatrician (well, OLD pediatrician, since our insurance changed... breaks my heart) so much. She is so balanced and truly understands both sides and gave calm, logical, educated responses to all my questions and truly knows both sides of the argument (about vaccines, and about countless other things as well).
My biggest piece of advice is find a medical professional you love and TRUST and follow their lead. That's not easy! But it's essential. I made my head spin with all the "research" I attempted before I finally found someone I could just ASK. I trusted her to do the research herself (and use, you know, ACTUAL medical journals instead of quack sites on Dr Google) and she always had a very balanced outlook. Sometimes I feel very comfortable in my decisions and I just KNOW what I'm doing is right. the other 98% of the time, I ask her, and do what she says. You need someone like that, because we can't be experts in everything. We can't be a jack-of-all-trades. It's too overwhelming. No one can be an expert in more than a couple things - the amount of time one most devote to become a true expert, to be able to truly analyze data and know the most trustworthy sources, is beyond comprehension. So find someone who HAS that kind of time, and who DOES know how to think about and analyze this issue, and use their knowledge. That's the wisest and most efficient use of YOUR time.
I think we count pregnant ladies as at risk more because it's the babies at risk and not the mother; but I'm not actually an expert that's just what I took from what I've been told. It must be hard if your son has allergies to some vaccines and I can understand why you are wary. I've never heard of an unborn baby having a reaction to something, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen and I can see with you'd want to be careful and wait until you can do it under more controlled circumstances (if that makes sense)
I do remember when I had my son I was told off for eating peanuts all the time (I was addicted to peanut m&m's) they told me I could be putting my baby at risk if he was allergic, but I actually really craved them. Since having him they've done more research and think that exposing your child to allergens in the womb can actually decrease their change of an allergy. Now I'm convinced that eating peanuts won't harm an unborn baby, however I'm not 100% convinced on the reducing the risk of allergies because I know so many people who have had babies who have milk allergies; I've never looked too closely at their diets but I'm sure those people were drinking milk and eating dairy throughout their pregnancies
I do remember when I had my son I was told off for eating peanuts all the time (I was addicted to peanut m&m's) they told me I could be putting my baby at risk if he was allergic, but I actually really craved them. Since having him they've done more research and think that exposing your child to allergens in the womb can actually decrease their change of an allergy. Now I'm convinced that eating peanuts won't harm an unborn baby, however I'm not 100% convinced on the reducing the risk of allergies because I know so many people who have had babies who have milk allergies; I've never looked too closely at their diets but I'm sure those people were drinking milk and eating dairy throughout their pregnancies
Thankyou, I'm glad you appreciate it not getting heated. I'm on the same page as you when people get heated they just throw around insults and rubbish that doesn't even make sense. There are things that some people say that do really rile me up - such as when people say they'd rather not protect their child from something which could be potentially fatal rather than risk them getting autism. 1) I feel like autism is definitely the better of the two options there and 2) that research has been proven to be completely made up but people still quote it and swear by it.
But obviously I realise that isn't what you're saying and you're drawing on your own personal experiences too. I'm a firm believer that we all do our very best for our children and make the best decisions that we can. None of us would choose to do or not do something if we thought it wasn't the very best for our children.
But obviously I realise that isn't what you're saying and you're drawing on your own personal experiences too. I'm a firm believer that we all do our very best for our children and make the best decisions that we can. None of us would choose to do or not do something if we thought it wasn't the very best for our children.
I'm fine, my tummy is starting to feel really tight and I'm feeling massive. But other than being really tired earlier in the week I've still been doing quite well.
Baby hasn't been as active in the past couple of days but I'm not worried as she has still been moving a fair amount.
Baby hasn't been as active in the past couple of days but I'm not worried as she has still been moving a fair amount.
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