Carol Thatcher a racist?

[debecca]

My post has disappeared from here

The dolls are now known as GOLLIES not GOLLYWOGS because the term 'wog' is offensive.

 

[Urchin]

My post has disappeared from here

No need to roll your eyes, the forum is being a bit weird today, we're trying to get it fixed

 

[HollyHobby]

As far as I'm concerned you have to look at context.

You CAN have hair like a golliwogs if it is like the toys - she used a word to describe someones hair and it's turned round to her calling someone a golliwog for the sake of being racist Should she have come up with another description - if so what?
Just like you can have hair the colour of a carrot!

Our market has a golliwog stall and I guess it might not be there anymore after all this.
I would be banning all the fakes before banning golliwogs for sale, the chinese stall in our market is full of fakes but i am not racist towards Chinese, it is them who have the fakes for sale.

 

[lea m]

As I originally pointed out in my comment, I refferred to caravan site as a British way of saying trailor park - its a term commonly used in America. I in no way referred or intended to refer to gypsies or travellers.

Sorry lol not meaning to pick but its still the same! Not all people on an American trailer park are of low intelligence! They also use that term in an offensive way! If I was an American who lived on a trailer park, i would be very offended by that remark!

I never said all people that live on an American trailer park are of low intelligence, go back and read my comments Lea m. I referred to the intelligence of a trailer park not each individual that has lived on or will live on a trailer park. Lets not take things way out of context here. I was simply offering my take on the pain my father went through when he first came to this country and was in my opinion trying to bite my tongue when talking about the animals that regularly beat the crap out of him as having the intelligence of a trailer park because he was Asian and at the same time repeatedly called him a Paki. Now please don't come back to me and say that I have offended animals by comparing them to the scum that beat my father up!

Don't take my comment out of context any more than it needs to be. Racism is wrong wrong wrong and unless you have been on the receieving end of it you will never truely feel the pain.

Im not saying that racism is anything but wrong!!??
Im simply stating that people say things that can cause offense without even realising or meaning to what so ever! As like I said, if I was American and from a trailer park, I would be offended by your comments that these animals that abused your father have the same intelligence as me!

 

[Suzie and Faith]

Oooh some interesting posts!

If she was likening someone's hair as being like a golliwog (as in a golliwog doll's) then I'm guessing she really wasn't thinking about how her remark would be taken and actually was just coming up with a description of his hair... (though she should have been more careful)

I really don't think she meant to be racist, it was just a silly thoughtless remark - however that doesn't make it ok but it doesn't mean she is generally racist.

 

[HappyAlice]

[quote="lea m":34g8kfh0]

As I originally pointed out in my comment, I refferred to caravan site as a British way of saying trailor park - its a term commonly used in America. I in no way referred or intended to refer to gypsies or travellers.

Sorry lol not meaning to pick but its still the same! Not all people on an American trailer park are of low intelligence! They also use that term in an offensive way! If I was an American who lived on a trailer park, i would be very offended by that remark!

I never said all people that live on an American trailer park are of low intelligence, go back and read my comments Lea m. I referred to the intelligence of a trailer park not each individual that has lived on or will live on a trailer park. Lets not take things way out of context here. I was simply offering my take on the pain my father went through when he first came to this country and was in my opinion trying to bite my tongue when talking about the animals that regularly beat the crap out of him as having the intelligence of a trailer park because he was Asian and at the same time repeatedly called him a Paki. Now please don't come back to me and say that I have offended animals by comparing them to the scum that beat my father up!

Don't take my comment out of context any more than it needs to be. Racism is wrong wrong wrong and unless you have been on the receieving end of it you will never truely feel the pain.

Im not saying that racism is anything but wrong!!??
Im simply stating that people say things that can cause offense without even realising or meaning to what so ever! As like I said, if I was American and from a trailer park, I would be offended by your comments that these animals that abused your father have the same intelligence as me![/quote:34g8kfh0]

I agree with Lea, Angelfairy you contradicted yourself there

 

[HollyHobby]

I would be offended by your comments that these animals that abused your father have the same intelligence as me!

thats putting animals down now! (suppose it is very hard not to offend everyone and everything!!)

 

[sparky]

what do you expect from margaret thatchers daughter????????

Just out of interest is it wrong to have a golly? A friend gave isla one and she likes it, dont want to inadvertly offend anyone! Interestingly the friend who gave it to her is black, she got it to remind her of her aunty dawn!

guess its a difficult one, because even if someone says something unintentionally it can still cause serious hurt.

I've been the victim of racisim once, for being english, but the person was such a twat i couldnt take it seriously!

 

[HollyHobby]

I've had a lot of racist comments for being english too by scots who obviously could tell i was better than them How embarrassed my husband is for his race!

I think when it comes down to it a racist is just a thicket.

 

[Krystal]

I've had a lot of racist comments for being english too by scots who obviously could tell i was better than them

was that tongue in cheek

[quote="lea m":2qvab6qx]

As I originally pointed out in my comment, I refferred to caravan site as a British way of saying trailor park - its a term commonly used in America. I in no way referred or intended to refer to gypsies or travellers.

Sorry lol not meaning to pick but its still the same! Not all people on an American trailer park are of low intelligence! They also use that term in an offensive way! If I was an American who lived on a trailer park, i would be very offended by that remark!

I never said all people that live on an American trailer park are of low intelligence, go back and read my comments Lea m. I referred to the intelligence of a trailer park not each individual that has lived on or will live on a trailer park. Lets not take things way out of context here. I was simply offering my take on the pain my father went through when he first came to this country and was in my opinion trying to bite my tongue when talking about the animals that regularly beat the crap out of him as having the intelligence of a trailer park because he was Asian and at the same time repeatedly called him a Paki. Now please don't come back to me and say that I have offended animals by comparing them to the scum that beat my father up!

Don't take my comment out of context any more than it needs to be. Racism is wrong wrong wrong and unless you have been on the receieving end of it you will never truely feel the pain.

Im not saying that racism is anything but wrong!!??
Im simply stating that people say things that can cause offense without even realising or meaning to what so ever! As like I said, if I was American and from a trailer park, I would be offended by your comments that these animals that abused your father have the same intelligence as me!

I agree with Lea, Angelfairy you contradicted yourself there [/quote:2qvab6qx]

Totally agree - Condtradicted yourself. Even if your comments weren't aimed at Gypsies and therefore racist they were discriminatory which in some ways is just the same, comes from the same thing - ignorance.



And not referring to the 2 posts above; I have seen quite a few times on this forum people taking the piss and being derogatory towards gypsies and travellers families.


I'm really confused as to how golliwog can be deemed racist and derogatory term and should not be used but then on the other hand is OK as long as used to refer to a white person I dunno there is a lot I want to add but can''t seem to find the right words It's so confusing, some people fine certain terms racist, some find them racist if used in a certain way, some don't find them racist at all! I guess the only person who can decide if they feel it's a racist comment is the person on the receiving end of the comment

It's confused me, I always loved Gollies, I've never thought of them as racist. Maybe that's cos I'm uneducated and ignorant (obviously) or maybe it because I'm not racist in the slightest so would never make the link between the 2. I'm just a bit what is and isn't racist seems to change on a weekly basis and depends who you speak to

 

[sarafet]

I've had a lot of racist comments for being english too by scots who obviously could tell i was better than them How embarrassed my husband is for his race!

i really hope that was a joke

 

[zebrastripes]

For goodness sake. in this day and age is there even any need for the word gollywog, at all? No. There's no point defending it

 

[Krystal]

For goodness sake. in this day and age is there even any need for the word golliwog, at all? No. There's no point defending it

But golliwog IS the name of a doll. I'm not defending it's use as a name for a black person cos I don't think it should be used in that way nor would I ever use it that way but I don't understand why the doll or it's name is racist.. unless used to describe a black person

 

[Jade&Evie]

My grandad was Welsh and kept sheep..... seriously, it doesn't get much worse than that.

FWIW I don't think I would buy Evie a gollie. Not because they are black or controversial- I just think they are bit outdated. That's not to say I will be editing all the Enid Blyton books- I won't. To Evie, they will be the same as what they are to me, a toy that past generations had like spinning tops and tin soldiers

Have a look at this website- I love it! Mr Punch's Old Toys

 

[daftscotslass]

I've had a lot of racist comments for being english too by scots who obviously could tell i was better than them How embarrassed my husband is for his race!

i really hope that was a joke

Indeed. What a generalisation if it wasn't.

 

[zebrastripes]

For goodness sake. in this day and age is there even any need for the word golliwog, at all? No. There's no point defending it

But golliwog IS the name of a doll. I'm not defending it's use as a name for a black person cos I don't think it should be used in that way nor would I ever use it that way but I don't understand why the doll or it's name is racist.. unless used to describe a black person

Oh I know. But look at when it was most popular- back when people weren't too bothered about what they called something.
And now, yes, it may have been the name of something, but it has connotations, it offends quite a lot of people, so why use it? It's not necessary IYKWIM

 

[zebrastripes]

I've had a lot of racist comments for being english too by scots who obviously could tell i was better than them How embarrassed my husband is for his race!

i really hope that was a joke

....same

 

[Potbelijo]

Some information and history on Golliwoggs. Wikipedia: Golliwogg it also mentions Carol Thatcher at the bottom.

 

[Krystal]

For goodness sake. in this day and age is there even any need for the word golliwog, at all? No. There's no point defending it

But golliwog IS the name of a doll. I'm not defending it's use as a name for a black person cos I don't think it should be used in that way nor would I ever use it that way but I don't understand why the doll or it's name is racist.. unless used to describe a black person

Oh I know. But look at when it was most popular- back when people weren't too bothered about what they called something.
And now, yes, it may have been the name of something, but it has connotations, it offends quite a lot of people, so why use it? It's not necessary IYKWIM

I do see your point

So am I racist cos I like the dolls I think that's what is confusing me the most (I'm confident I am not racist by the way, just wondering if other people would see me as racist because I like the doll)

 

[Krystal]

Some information and history on Golliwoggs. Wikipedia: Golliwogg it also mentions Carol Thatcher at the bottom.

Thanks for the link, I read the whole page. It's a shame, seems that the golliwog started of as an innocent character in that girls book. I don't see how him being replicated and made into a bad character (as well as many good ones still) is racist though, just because whatever a person's colour.. they can be cast as a bad character or good character depending on the story etc iywim. I was also interested to see that it isn't only black people who were referred to as 'wogs' it is also Asian, Hispanic, Greek & Mediterranean with some of them adopting the name as a friendly term for themselves

Anyway I don't have much to add on this thread now but its always good to read everyone else's opinion on things like this

I'll leave it on this; I still don't think that the doll golliwog should be seen as racist and I don't think it should be banned. I do NOT agree with somebody using the term to refer to a black person (or Hispanic,Asian,Greek, Mediterranean) - That's basically my opinion.

Oh yeah and the original point of the post asking if Carol should have been sacked; yes (see my opinion on the word being used to describe a black person above)