And the biggest problem with the Country is................

[Loola]

Whilst everyone is on the topic of how messed up the country is, what do you think the biggest problem is at the moment and what do you think should be done to alleviate the problem?

My biggest gripe with our country is all those silly girls getting pregnant cos they get a council house. Now I dont really know how the hell we can fix that, but I do believe its the main reason as to why our country is in such a state, because whilst children are having children and Im not saying all of them, but lots of them dont have a clue how to be a parent they just think of it as a way to get a house and some benefits. The parents are not in love, its probably just some childish relationship, they split up. The mother decides she wants to have more fun in her youth, which is totally understandable, she then resents having the baby. So the kids is largely ignored and has no guidance as to what is right and wrong, as the parents havent learnt that themselves yet. So the kids are damaged from a young age, brought up in poverty and turn into the 'hoodies' that are carrying knives, shooting each other and generally intimidating people countrywide. What the hell is the answer to this? You cant stop benefits for mothers, you cant stop giving them houses etc as that is imhumane, especially for the innocent baby. This carries on from generation to generation, the country becoming more and more fucked up! What is the answer to this problem?

Please note: I know this generalising on a massive scale, Im just painting the general picture of what I mean. Im not at all in the opinion that all teenage mothers are terrible and just after a council house.

 

[mummykay]

David Beckham is not king

p.s ill come back with a well educated response later Loola my love

 

[Loola]

No worries! There would be uproar from me Beckham was King though.

 

[lisa&alex]

i believe.. the problem with this country is...

people not taking responsibility for their own actions.. not living within their means.. and passing on the buck to someone else.. life is for living..

its was far to easy to get credit.. and live in the red from month to month... far to easy to let your kids get away with murder.. i mean isnt it more effort to talk, educate and discipline your children than the just let them do what they want? its easier and some times more cost effective not to work.. have your rent payed for you.. your council tax.. and the only thing you have to pay is gas water electric and food..the rest you can waste on fags, booze drugs.. i mean why work when your better off on benifits?

if everyone lived within their means... had self respect.. taught their kids to work for their life..it doesnt just land in your lap..taught their kids right from wrong.. respect, boundarys and values this world could change.. its not down to the government.. the queen... the pm... the answer is within you.. and your family.. change the things you have control of.. then you can be proud that somewhere along the line.. you made a difference.

 

[purple13]

the problem with the country is....

people believing everything they read in the paper and see on the news, taking in what they see without thought; not realising that nearly every publicist has an agenda, that there is usually a damn sight more to every story.

then once they've leeched up partial information, regurgitating it unquestioningly.

this perpetuates ignorance which permeates into every section of our day to day life. it saddens me greatly.

 

[Storm.]

My problem with the country is we let to many people move into tis country give them everything on a silver platter then ignore the ones that are born and raised here, OAPs struggle to survive after fighting to keep our country ours, yet a forign bloke can walk in and get everything no questions asked!

Can some one please tell me another country in the world, were you can just up move in, get your feet under the table and get every thing, a home, a car, job & or benefits and so forth!

A guy I know works in the caring industry he was saying the a while back he popped into the PO to pay bills for a lady, she had a very low income and was struggling to life comfortably, anyhow he got chattin to another bloke in the queue, the guy forigen, could just about speak english, told him how he had just moved here, and had been given a flat, a car coz her had a bad back, how the flat was ok basic but kitted out for him to start with ie fridge, sofa, cooker bed etc! and he was in receipt of benefits of over £100 a week!!

You may moan about our youngsters having kids to get money but I would rather our taxes went on them then on some forigner who has done nothing for us, gets everything handed to him on a plate then moans we are racist!

Sorry Im not good at explaining and I dont want the above taken the wrong way, I have nothing against people moving into this country, what I am against is people moving into this country for nothing because they think its an easy life! which it is as we are the suckers that are making it easy for them!!

 

[daftscotslass]

For me it's people not taking responsibility for their children, similar to what Lisa said. Day in day out people I work with are put under a huge amount of pressure to deal with children that come to school and think it's ok to bite/kick/swear at/spit at/punch/throw things at and generally disrespect the adults.

 

[locust]

People who dont practice what they preach, hypocrits and people who dont contribute to change, the ones who just sit back and bitch about something and do fuck all about it.

I changed my mind the problem with this country is just the humans that occupy it.

 

[zebrastripes]

You are joking, right? You have to be. I'm not saying teenage pregnancy is a fantastic career move,but I can't believe you are laying all the troubles of an entire country at the door of a relatively small proportion of teenage girls. Wow. Generalising on a "massive scale?" Where on earth are you getting this from? I personally find your comments,not only ignorant, but deeply offensive. Still,I'll take it you are merely misinformed

Ok. Let's clear up one or two things.

1. The myth that girls get up the pole for council houses

This is incorrect. Aside from the fact we are talking about council houses here, not mansions, a very,very small percentage of teenage pregnancies are planned. Besides this, most young mothers actually live at home with their parents for some time after the baby is born. The idea that the objective of the pregnancy is to attain council housing arises from a speech made by Tory MP Peter Lilley in 1992. In it, he declared he had a "little list" of "young ladies" who got pregnant just to jump the housing queue. This was,frankly, fabrication. Unfortunatly, the lie has stuck.

The parents are not in love

How the hell do you know? because they are poor? because they are under 20? My boyfriend and I are very much in love, and have been since I was 13.I know that sounds stupid, but it's true. And if we ever fell out of lvoe with me, he wouldn't with his daughter. Just because one is young does not mean one is incapable of love. it may not be your definition but love,nonetheless.

Children of teenage parents grow up to crime

I concede,this is true. However,the studies which show this are done in areas ofdeep deprivation where,tbh, parents of ANY age are likely to have trouble raising their children. Do you honestly think that, in certain social stratus, it matters whether you have a child at 15 or 35? It's called lack of social mobility. It is a vicious circle of poverty and despair which does not arise from "age of parents" but from lack of education,job opportunities, economic stagnation etc. A little research will show you this.

being a motheris not a bed of roses, no matter what your age. being a young parent especially is bloody lonely, even if you do live in one of those palacial council flats they are giving out free these days

I just find it quite patronising that I can work bloody hard at being a mother,my relationship with my boyfriend and baby,breastfeeding,school,getting bloody good grades,and all the rest, just to be informed that I'm a "silly little girl," a "child raising a child". Don't say "I did say NOT ALL teenage mothers" because the thing is, if you;d just met me,you'd think I WAS a silly,manipulative little girl.

I'm not doing well because I'm fantastic. I'm doing well because, by an accident of birth, i was born into a reasonably well off home, I'm fairly intelligent etc.

But I know girls who are dirt poor, real "chav scum" you'd see them as. They are two sisters, one 19 with two kids, the other my age, with one. They are on benefits and have about 4 GCSE's between them. But you know,one is staying in a little council house with her granny, even though she's been offered a place of her own. Why? To help her granny out,to take care of her. The other is living with her (working) boyfriend. They might not wear the right clothes or speak properly, but they are gentle,loving parents, with a great degree of common sense.

Anyway,resources

http://www.spunk.org/texts/groups/wsm/sp000388.txt
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rz1h ... &ct=result
http://struggle.ws/ws94/ws42_family.html
http://www.antoniabance.org.uk/category ... pregnancy/
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... id=1463139

 

[widowwadman]

A guy I know works in the caring industry he was saying the a while back he popped into the PO to pay bills for a lady, she had a very low income and was struggling to life comfortably, anyhow he got chattin to another bloke in the queue, the guy forigen, could just about speak english, told him how he had just moved here, and had been given a flat, a car coz her had a bad back, how the flat was ok basic but kitted out for him to start with ie fridge, sofa, cooker bed etc! and he was in receipt of benefits of over £100 a week!!

Weird, those stories are always about someone who knows someone who talked to someone in a post office queue or read it in a paper. I very much doubt this story to be true, tbh, as you can't just come here and get handed benefits, you've got basically zilch entitlements from the British state.

Just as a little backup:

What about entitlement to benefits?

Migrant Workers
The rules are complicated and can be different for different groups and nationalities. Foreign nationals are not entitled to benefits when they are seeking work, unless they have already worked here and are temporarily unemployed. Citizens from the A8 countries for example, become entitled to benefits and housing if they are self-employed here, or if they have a job and register with the Workers Registration Scheme. Once they have been working lawfully for a year they no longer have to register when changing jobs and they become eligible for benefits when temporarily out of work as well as when working.

Illegal Immigrants
They are not entitled to any benefits.

Asylum Seekers
They are not entitled to benefits.
Can they get extra benefits eg for vehicles?

Migrant Workers
They get no extra benefits. They can apply for loans or grants for work vehicles but are subject to the same rules and application processes as anyone else.

Illegal Immigrants
They get no benefits.

Asylum Seekers
They get no benefits above their basic allowance.
What rights do they have to housing?

Migrant Workers
If they have an NI number, have a right to be in the UK and are registered on the Workers Registration Scheme they may go on the housing register and may be entitled to Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit and to apply as Homeless. Once the 12 months uninterrupted work has been completed, they will no longer be required to register as a worker, and they will have equal rights to others. In all cases migrant workers get no preferential treatment and their need is assessed in the same way as anyone else who applies.

Illegal Immigrants
They are not entitled to housing.

Asylum Seekers
They are not entitled to housing. They are housed through NASS or privately.
What rights do they have to the National Health Service(NHS)?

Migrant Workers
Generally they have the right to register as an NHS patient with a doctor if they are here for a settled purpose (ie are intending to be resident here for six months or more). If they are not residents then they are treated as private patients.

Illegal Immigrants
They cannot register as an NHS patient and will only be treated in an emergency by a hospital or GP.

Asylum Seekers
They have the right to register as an NHS patient at a GP surgery.
Do people get let off if they commit a crime because they don't speak the language?

This is certainly not the case. In fact, if caught committing a crime, migrant workers don't just get dealt with by the court but will also face action by the Home Office Immigration Service and can be deported to their country of origin with conditions not to return. If they are unable to speak fluent English, then an interpreter will be used to assist the court.
Do Migrant Workers need driving licences and insurance for their vehicles?

If a migrant worker from a non-EU or an EU country has a valid licence, they are authorised to drive in the UK:

* Until aged 70 or for three years after becoming resident,whichever is the longer period
* Until aged 45 or for five years after becoming resident,whichever is the longer period
* If aged over 45 but under 65 until their 66th birthday or for five years after becoming resident, whichever is the shorter period
* Aged over 65 or for one year after becoming resident

In order to continue driving after these periods, they must get a British driving licence and take a British driving test. It is difficult for many migrant workers to get British motor insurance unless they become permanent residents in the UK. This is because the insurance companies impose very high premiums on foreigners and many insurance companies will not cover foreign drivers that they categorise as 'exceptional risks'. However, vehicle insurance from a foreign country, as long as it covers the vehicle that is being driven, can be used in the UK.
Do foreign nationals need less ID to get bank accounts?

Generally it is harder for foreign nationals to open a bank account. Banks require ID including passports and where necessary, work permit details, proof of address and/or are commendation from an employer. The employer must be a company who has an account with the bank and has known the foreign person for a specified period of time.
EU Member States
Source: http://www.eden.gov.uk/your-council/par ... t-workers/

 

[beanie]

blimey today is a day for threads to get people talking

 

[Tasha20]

blimey today is a day for threads to get people talking

what I thought

 

[Melly+2]

im enjoying sitting back and reading what people have to say, its very interesting

 

[NICCI]

wow zebra stripes

 

[Sarah&Braydon]

well done zebra, wen i get dirty looks in town sometimes i really wish u were there

 

[zebrastripes]

well done zebra, wen i get dirty looks in town sometimes i really wish u were there

you'd get no looks of any sort,I'd scare everyone off

 

[fran_23]

In response to ZS post i completely agree..my parents had me when they were 16 and had nothing, they were together since they were 13, they moved to a council flat which was small and damp and by no means was it nice enough to be an incentive for pregnancy also we all lived with my nan until i was 2 as that is how long it took for them to be offered a place. they both worked, my dad had 2 jobs and my mum worked nights.. they have both worked there arses off to get there own house and provide for us, they didn't claim benefits and me and my sister know that although we were far from rich we have never wanted for any of the essentials in life and they did the very best they could. My mum and dad are still together and they own there own house and 2 cars, my mum is a police woman and my dad is a mechanic- they were stereotyped from the minute my mum got pregnant as scrounging teenage pregnancy scum and people thought there relationship would not last (my dads parent who are big snobs especially) but out of all my family..the people who have "done it right" got married bought a house and had kids have all divorced and gone off the rails! so i hate people who go on about teenagers getting pregnant, scrounging off the state. I am very proud of my parents.

edits were for spelling

 

[Sarah&Braydon]

awww zebra why thank u. i

 

[Loola]

Firstly, I did not blame the entire state of the country on teenage mothers, I said it was my biggest gripe, and I 100% agree that most mothers try their very hardest in the worst of circumstances to make things work, my massive generalisation was on purpose to get a response just like yours. I knew you would give a good answer. However as a person who does work for the Government and in Housing, it is no myth that some teenage girls do get pregnant on purpose to get a council house - but not just teenagers, many ages of women/couples . These people are not stupid, not uneducated, they are clever - well they think they are until they realise what a huge responsibilty they now have. I can assure you I am not ignorant nor misinformed, and I will gain statistical information if needs be to back it up. Its a sad state of affairs that those in real need of a home cannot get one, or have to wait for years to get a council house, and they know that an easy way to get a house quickly is to get pregnant so thats exactly what they do.

My post was as a whole entirely generalised, I was merely painting a picture. Of course young people fall in love and make mistakes or make the decision to have a baby. Others do not and do have babies for reasons more to do with what they can get out of it than they want to have a child, Im not saying that once the baby is born they dont love or want their child or that they automatically become bad parents, I just dont believe that they know the enormity of the situation they have got themselves into. My question is how the hell do we stop this?

Poverty is the biggest cause of crime and sadly it is the council estates that are the poorest and have the worst crime rates. Obviously there are different levels of crime in every region of every town in the country, but statistics will show that crime is more prolific in council estates. Which in turn means the kids will grow up with crime in their life to some extent, whether they participate in it or not, its still the norm, and it shouldnt be.

I find your quote very offensive that I would see all teenage mothers a chav scum. I work with teenage mothers every day so please do not presume that you know what my opinion of people is. I see people from every walk of life and I support them. I am one of the people that really sees that sad state of affairs that its becoming though, there is no real help for them, and they are largely ignored. No-one knows what goes on behind closed doors, but I do get to see the dirty children with ill fitting clothes, who have no toys to play with who are stuck in their puschairs crying their hearts out whilst their mums are screaming at them cos they cant cope.

I see the worst situations, I see dirty, hungry children that have no toys to play with, that are neglected by their parents as they cannot cope. I see pregnant women on heroin, Ive seen babies crawling around amongst used syringes. All I am allowed to do is to refer them to Social Services, who I hope will do the right thing But Im not so convinced after the Baby P incident and I lie awake at night worrying about it, and thats why I posted my hugely generalised gripe. Because Im sure if you saw that day in day out it would make you as angry as me. I am not saying its the majority of teenage girls, I never said that and I dont think it, but I do see it a lot and I do believe that bad parenting breeds anti-social behaviour obviously, and bad parenting comes from lack of education, so I think it should be taught at a young age.

You are joking, right? You have to be. I'm not saying teenage pregnancy is a fantastic career move,but I can't believe you are laying all the troubles of an entire country at the door of a relatively small proportion of teenage girls. Wow. Generalising on a "massive scale?" Where on earth are you getting this from? I personally find your comments,not only ignorant, but deeply offensive. Still,I'll take it you are merely misinformed

Ok. Let's clear up one or two things.

1. The myth that girls get up the pole for council houses

This is incorrect. Aside from the fact we are talking about council houses here, not mansions, a very,very small percentage of teenage pregnancies are planned. Besides this, most young mothers actually live at home with their parents for some time after the baby is born. The idea that the objective of the pregnancy is to attain council housing arises from a speech made by Tory MP Peter Lilley in 1992. In it, he declared he had a "little list" of "young ladies" who got pregnant just to jump the housing queue. This was,frankly, fabrication. Unfortunatly, the lie has stuck.

The parents are not in love

How the hell do you know? because they are poor? because they are under 20? My boyfriend and I are very much in love, and have been since I was 13.I know that sounds stupid, but it's true. And if we ever fell out of lvoe with me, he wouldn't with his daughter. Just because one is young does not mean one is incapable of love. it may not be your definition but love,nonetheless.

Children of teenage parents grow up to crime

I concede,this is true. However,the studies which show this are done in areas ofdeep deprivation where,tbh, parents of ANY age are likely to have trouble raising their children. Do you honestly think that, in certain social stratus, it matters whether you have a child at 15 or 35? It's called lack of social mobility. It is a vicious circle of poverty and despair which does not arise from "age of parents" but from lack of education,job opportunities, economic stagnation etc. A little research will show you this.

being a motheris not a bed of roses, no matter what your age. being a young parent especially is bloody lonely, even if you do live in one of those palacial council flats they are giving out free these days

I just find it quite patronising that I can work bloody hard at being a mother,my relationship with my boyfriend and baby,breastfeeding,school,getting bloody good grades,and all the rest, just to be informed that I'm a "silly little girl," a "child raising a child". Don't say "I did say NOT ALL teenage mothers" because the thing is, if you;d just met me,you'd think I WAS a silly,manipulative little girl.

I'm not doing well because I'm fantastic. I'm doing well because, by an accident of birth, i was born into a reasonably well off home, I'm fairly intelligent etc.

But I know girls who are dirt poor, real "chav scum" you'd see them as. They are two sisters, one 19 with two kids, the other my age, with one. They are on benefits and have about 4 GCSE's between them. But you know,one is staying in a little council house with her granny, even though she's been offered a place of her own. Why? To help her granny out,to take care of her. The other is living with her (working) boyfriend. They might not wear the right clothes or speak properly, but they are gentle,loving parents, with a great degree of common sense.

Anyway,resources

http://www.spunk.org/texts/groups/wsm/sp000388.txt
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rz1h ... &ct=result
http://struggle.ws/ws94/ws42_family.html
http://www.antoniabance.org.uk/category ... pregnancy/
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... id=1463139

 

[zebrastripes]

"Firstly, I did not blame the entire state of the country on teenage mothers, I said it was my biggest gripe, and I 100% agree that most mothers try their very hardest in the worst of circumstances to make things work"

This is what you said

"Whilst everyone is on the topic of how messed up the country is, what do you think the biggest problem is at the moment and what do you think should be done to alleviate the problem?

My biggest gripe with our country is all those silly girls getting pregnant cos they get a council house"

You see how i drew the correllation.

"my massive generalisation was on purpose to get a response just like yours. I knew you would give a good answer"

why?


"Others do not and do have babies for reasons more to do with what they can get out of it than they want to have a child, Im not saying that once the baby is born they dont love or want their child or that they automatically become bad parents, I just dont believe that they know the enormity of the situation they have got themselves into. My question is how the hell do we stop this?

No one realises how hard mother hood is until they've experienced it. Regardless of age. If one attempts to stop people having children because they don't understand "the enormity of the situation" humanity would become extinct

Poverty is the biggest cause of crime and sadly it is the council estates that are the poorest and have the worst crime rates. Obviously there are different levels of crime in every region of every town in the country, but statistics will show that crime is more prolific in council estates. Which in turn means the kids will grow up with crime in their life to some extent, whether they participate in it or not, its still the norm, and it shouldnt be.

That's what I said. You previously said

"So the kids is largely ignored and has no guidance as to what is right and wrong, as the parents havent learnt that themselves yet. So the kids are damaged from a young age, brought up in poverty and turn into the 'hoodies' that are carrying knives, shooting each other and generally intimidating people countrywide."

I don't understand why you posted views you are now disagreeing with?

"I find your quote very offensive that I would see all teenage mothers a chav scum. I work with teenage mothers every day so please do not presume that you know what my opinion of people is."

I was generalising here: they are the sort of people who would be sterotypes that way.
And I AM a teenage mother every day, and I found your opinion quite incorrect

"I am not saying its the majority of teenage girls, I never said that and I dont think it, but I do see it a lot and I do believe that bad parenting breeds anti-social behaviour obviously, and bad parenting comes from lack of education, so I think it should be taught at a young age. "

But in your first post you did say it.....bad parenting does come from a lack of ed, but the people inareas suffering most are unlikely to be educated at any age

I am afraid your contradictions have confused me. Is your first post representative of your true views,or your second? If the latter,why did you post the first?