Lowering abortion limits

[Freya]

IMHO - Let the person who has to live with their decision and the consequences decide!!!

The only person someone has to justify somthing to is themselves and those they love.

 

[abcd1234]

Imagine telling a 35 year old woman who has decided she does not want a child that she is not "grown up enough" to have sex

No, but she can have a hysterectomy if she didn't want any and have as much sex as she wanted.

I cant believe you just said that

Have a major operation just so there is no chance of getting pregnant!

Im speachless!

No doctor in theie right mind would authorise that anyway!

Women do have hysterectomies to stop having kids, my friends mum did.

However like you say it is a major operation and you have to take hormones after and god knows what else and many women feel less of a women afterwards, its not something i would suggest, however you're man can have the snip very easily without too much pain as an alternative

 

[ShineyHappyPeople]

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 13:11 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ShineyHappyPeople wrote:
Quote:
Imagine telling a 35 year old woman who has decided she does not want a child that she is not "grown up enough" to have sex


No, but she can have a hysterectomy if she didn't want any and have as much sex as she wanted.


I cant believe you just said that

Have a major operation just so there is no chance of getting pregnant!

Im speachless!

No doctor in theie right mind would authorise that anyway!

Yeah your right, killing an unwanted baby would be much easier!!

 

[fran_23]

Imagine telling a 35 year old woman who has decided she does not want a child that she is not "grown up enough" to have sex

No, but she can have a hysterectomy if she didn't want any and have as much sex as she wanted.

oh come on thats a bit drastic what if she wanted children in the future?
lets face it it is not as black and white as just abstaining- and contraception fails, some people will keep the baby some people will not but it is there lives and they should have the choices if they so wish- we are not the ones who have to bring the children up. there are too many unwanted children brought into this world who have an appalling life.

 

[LilysMummy]

Imagine telling a 35 year old woman who has decided she does not want a child that she is not "grown up enough" to have sex

No, but she can have a hysterectomy if she didn't want any and have as much sex as she wanted.

I cant believe you just said that

Have a major operation just so there is no chance of getting pregnant!

Im speachless!

No doctor in theie right mind would authorise that anyway!

Women do have hysterectomies to stop having kids, my friends mum did.

However like you say it is a major operation and you have to take hormones after and god knows what else and many women feel less of a women afterwards, its not something i would suggest, however you're man can have the snip very easily without too much pain as an alternative

Exactly I think there is alot more options than going straight for a hysterectomy

 

[ShineyHappyPeople]

Women do have hysterectomies to stop having kids, my friends mum did.

Of course they do, thats what they are for.

 

[Krystal]

Imagine telling a 35 year old woman who has decided she does not want a child that she is not "grown up enough" to have sex

No, but she can have a hysterectomy if she didn't want any and have as much sex as she wanted.

Wow, what a strange way of thinking about it. And to hell with the possible health implications having a hysterectomy could cause.

I just think that even though in your eyes abortion may be wrong and not performed at all (assuming from your posts your very pro life) you surely must see that we must look at things from a view of finding a solution that would work. Cos tbf your idea just wouldn't. Obviously these are only ideas on a forum and were not actually going to change anything but hope you know what I mean.

 

[ShineyHappyPeople]

Exactly I think there is alot more options than going straight for a hysterectomy

I agree with that too but I was just going along the example given to me of a 35year old women who doesnt want any. But yes, the snip is good too although I think there still is a small chance of pregnancy?

 

[Squiglet]

[quote="fran_23":3lyhy1dp]

surely 16 weeks (well, 10ish weeks by the time the woman finds out about the pregnancy) is enough time for a woman to decide weather she wants the baby or not?

The best time to decide whether you want a baby or not is before you have sex

but realistically unplanned pregnancies occur where contraception has failed.

Sadly SHP is right... Part of the risk of having sex is having a baby... after all we know that part of the risk of jumping out of plane is that the shoot fails and you plummet to your death and for those reasons many people who don't want to die... don't take that risk...

If you don't want to have kids... don't take the risk... or make dam sure your contraception doesn't fail..

well i fell pregnant with hayden when i was on the pill, i'd been on it for years the only time i knew it had failed was when i found out i was pregnant- so its a bit unrealistic to say that you should make sure your contraception doesn't fail..you don't know its failed until you fall pregnant do you?[/quote:3lyhy1dp]

but then why didn't you have an abortion...??? because...you wanted children? obviously the time wasn't right for you to have had Hayden or you wouldn't have been on the pill? thats what I mean...if you don't want kids... don't have sex or take a more permanent solution to make sure you don't...

I had Tia when my contraception failed, so I am in no way stating that girls are just silly in letting their contraception fail... I know why mine did... it was because I was taking St Johns Wort and the pill and back in 1998 we didn't know they couldn't taken together... I was not in a fit state to have kids but accepted that because I did, being pregnant was one of the consequences of that.... I accepted that.

I believe that its a womans right to choose, I agree with abortions in the right circumstances... but we have to start being more responsible with regards to the way we treat sex... If the limit on abortion was lower for social reasons... yes there might be an increase in backstreet abortions.... but there would be a significant decrease in our cavalieristic attitudes towards sex. And not only with regards to pregnancy, but STDS...No one here wants to take the risk of getting an STD yet people play with fire everyday...

 

[fran_23]

Imagine telling a 35 year old woman who has decided she does not want a child that she is not "grown up enough" to have sex

No, but she can have a hysterectomy if she didn't want any and have as much sex as she wanted.

Wow, what a strange way of thinking about it. And to hell with the possible health implications having a hysterectomy could cause.

I just think that even though in your eyes abortion may be wrong and not performed at all (assuming from your posts your very pro life) you surely must see that we must look at things from a view of finding a solution that would work. Cos tbf your idea just wouldn't. Obviously these are only ideas on a forum and were not actually going to change anything but hope you know what I mean.

i know what you are saying- it does seem some people would like to see abortion banned altogether. i know its not nice and a lot of people are pro-life but fine don't ever have one- why stop others choosing?
it would only lead to bodged back alley and do it yourself abortions which in my view is far worse.

 

[LilysMummy]

Women do have hysterectomies to stop having kids, my friends mum did.

Of course they do, thats what they are for.

Not just for that is it! I had to consent to a possible hystorectomy when I had my csection if complications occured. And you know what I had nightmares after thinking if i lost it what would it be like.

I dont think ive ever had a nightmare over usinf contraception

 

[ShineyHappyPeople]

Wow, what a strange way of thinking about it. And to hell with the possible health implications having a hysterectomy could cause.

And killing a baby inside you doesn't have its own risks both phyically and mentally? Sounds like a contradiction to me.

 

[sparky]

this subject has gone off topic slightly and tbh i'm rather ashamed at some of the comments.. I thought that this was the UK in 2008 !!

I trust these same people would approach all human life with the same principles?

For example, we all know that burgers can cause heart diesease and that alchol contributes to liver cancer...does that mean if you've had a burger or a drink that you are not entitled to medical attention if you were to happen to contract these illnesses? You simply cannot apply the same to sex, you can take precautions but these are not 100% reliable!

As much as i hate to say this some people make a decision on abortion based on their feelings more than the need of the potential child.... And there are plenty of unwanted children born into terrible conditions of abuse daily.

Making a decision on abortion is the hardest decision any woman can make, and only one that she can make herself, be grateful that we have the right to do so!

Incidently most of the protesters involved in bringing this to parliament were pro-choice but simply wanted to lower the date of abortion for non-medical abortions...they've been very careful to separate themselves from the pro-life nutters....the very same people that have beaten women outside abortion clinics in the US!

 

[fran_23]

[quote="fran_23":3a9klfis]

surely 16 weeks (well, 10ish weeks by the time the woman finds out about the pregnancy) is enough time for a woman to decide weather she wants the baby or not?

The best time to decide whether you want a baby or not is before you have sex

but realistically unplanned pregnancies occur where contraception has failed.

Sadly SHP is right... Part of the risk of having sex is having a baby... after all we know that part of the risk of jumping out of plane is that the shoot fails and you plummet to your death and for those reasons many people who don't want to die... don't take that risk...

If you don't want to have kids... don't take the risk... or make dam sure your contraception doesn't fail..

well i fell pregnant with hayden when i was on the pill, i'd been on it for years the only time i knew it had failed was when i found out i was pregnant- so its a bit unrealistic to say that you should make sure your contraception doesn't fail..you don't know its failed until you fall pregnant do you?

but then why didn't you have an abortion...??? because...you wanted children? obviously the time wasn't right for you to have had Hayden or you wouldn't have been on the pill? thats what I mean...if you don't want kids... don't have sex or take a more permanent solution to make sure you don't...

I had Tia when my contraception failed, so I am in no way stating that girls are just silly in letting their contraception fail... I know why mine did... it was because I was taking St Johns Wort and the pill and back in 1998 we didn't know they couldn't taken together... I was not in a fit state to have kids but accepted that because I did, being pregnant was one of the consequences of that.... I accepted that.

I believe that its a womans right to choose, I agree with abortions in the right circumstances... but we have to start being more responsible with regards to the way we treat sex... If the limit on abortion was lower for social reasons... yes there might be an increase in backstreet abortions.... but there would be a significant decrease in our cavalieristic attitudes towards sex. And not only with regards to pregnancy, but STDS...No one here wants to take the risk of getting an STD yet people play with fire everyday...[/quote:3a9klfis]

yes what you say about hayden is true i was not planning children at that time but i would not change him for the world. i was happy to find i was pregnant. sadly the same cannot be said of my second pregnancy which was also a case of failed contraception- i never ever wanted to rite this on here because i know what people will think of me but to hell with it this is how i felt and i cannot change it.
when i found out i was pregnant the 2nd time Hayden was only just turned 4 months old i was completely in love with him and i dont know if it was the pregnancy hormones still flowing about or what i just didn't feel anything for what was growing inside of me i could only think that i needed to give myself to my son already born- i knew i couldn't cope with another baby. mentally, financially or anyway at all.. there was no doubt about it i felt sick, tired and really ill. it was making me mentally unwell and i just wanted it to be over..i know how nasty that makes me sound and believe me looking back on that dark time i was not "me" and i could never feel the same now. i am very maternal and i have no idea what made me feel that way but i did..although i had always felt that i could never ever have an abortion no matter what i was suddenly faced with something i could not deal with.
i know how hard that will be for you guys to understand as i can't understand it myself now. but thats what happened so i now know you can never say never- anyway this is totally off the subject i'm sorry..although i don't regret my desicion there isn't a day that i don't feel sad about it. lately i feel so down about it esp all the discussion on the news etc..i dont know what else to say really just that i feel there should be choice and people shouldn't be made to feel bad for there choices as it is there lives and they are the ones that have to live with themselves for the rest of it.

 

[Krystal]

Incidently most of the protesters involved in bringing this to parliament were pro-choice but simply wanted to lower the date of abortion for non-medical abortions...they've been very careful to separate themselves from the pro-life nutters....the very same people that have beaten women outside abortion clinics in the US!

I totally agree and that is definately where I stand. I am pro choice but I do think the limit needs to be lowered.

Fran - No one will judge you for making a difficult decision. I don't think the majority of people on this thread are saying abortion is wrong they are just saying that maybe the time limit needs lowering. You did what you fet was right for you and Hayden at the time. Don't beat yourself up about it

 

[ShineyHappyPeople]

this subject has gone off topic slightly and tbh i'm rather ashamed at some of the comments.. I thought that this was the UK in 2008 !!

I trust these same people would approach all human life with the same principles?

For example, we all know that burgers can cause heart diesease and that alchol contributes to liver cancer...does that mean if you've had a burger or a drink that you are not entitled to medical attention if you were to happen to contract these illnesses? You simply cannot apply the same to sex, you can take precautions but these are not 100% reliable!

As much as i hate to say this some people make a decision on abortion based on their feelings more than the need of the potential child.... And there are plenty of unwanted children born into terrible conditions of abuse daily.

Making a decision on abortion is the hardest decision any woman can make, and only one that she can make herself, be grateful that we have the right to do so!

Incidently most of the protesters involved in bringing this to parliament were pro-choice but simply wanted to lower the date of abortion for non-medical abortions...they've been very careful to separate themselves from the pro-life nutters....the very same people that have beaten women outside abortion clinics in the US!

I dont really know what your trying to say to me.. im not saying that making a descision to abort is easy, im just saying the descision itself should be avoided at all costs and other methods could be looked at. If the mothers life is at risk or other medical factors are involved I accept that.

 

[ShineyHappyPeople]

For example, we all know that burgers can cause heart diesease and that alchol contributes to liver cancer...does that mean if you've had a burger or a drink that you are not entitled to medical attention if you were to happen to contract these illnesses? You simply cannot apply the same to sex, you can take precautions but these are not 100% reliable!

No but we're not talking about hospital treatment, we are talking about destroying babies

 

[Krystal]

For example, we all know that burgers can cause heart diesease and that alchol contributes to liver cancer...does that mean if you've had a burger or a drink that you are not entitled to medical attention if you were to happen to contract these illnesses? You simply cannot apply the same to sex, you can take precautions but these are not 100% reliable!

No but we're not talking about hospital treatment, we are talking about destroying babies

No were talking about the preventive measures you suggested I think.

 

[fran_23]

Incidently most of the protesters involved in bringing this to parliament were pro-choice but simply wanted to lower the date of abortion for non-medical abortions...they've been very careful to separate themselves from the pro-life nutters....the very same people that have beaten women outside abortion clinics in the US!

I totally agree and that is definately where I stand. I am pro choice but I do think the limit needs to be lowered.

Fran - No one will judge you for making a difficult decision. I don't think the majority of people on this thread are saying abortion is wrong they are just saying that maybe the time limit needs lowering. You did what you fet was right for you and Hayden at the time. Don't beat yourself up about it

thanks i just think its words being banded around such as "killing an unwanted child" i have had a miscarriage since all this and i think that increased my guilt 10 fold!

i think its obvious everyone has there views and as its so emotive theres bound to be severe disagreements.

 

[sparky]

exactly...to say that refraining from sex is the only true way of preventing a baby, surely the same rules apply to any other health related incident!

SHP abortion IS THE LAST RESORT people dont do it willingly!! and no-one with a living beating heart would do it without investigating every possiblity first!

I think youre simplfying/dismissing the reasons why people make that choice! Just think yourself lucky that you've never been in that position.

There is no black and white when it comes to the debate, no right or wrong, which is what makes the whole thing very hard to look at from a all en-compassing legal perspective. Only the choice of the person involved should be considered.