Looooong one, sorry...

[LaceyKeo]

So, I'm really starting to get concerned over my son. I've posted in here couple times and you ladies have given me some great advice/ideas, so, I'm hoping someone "outside" can offer another brainwave.

Let's call my son C, and his dad D, to try and keep things a touch easier to follow. I'm gonna give some background that may help you guys to understand where I'm coming from.


C is two years, three months old. D and I were together for eight years, but finally broke up a year ago. The split was an amicable one (well, as much as these things can be amicable), largely down to my easy-going nature, and mostly due to the fact neither of us wanted to end up with a child-in-the-middle situation.

D and I both work for the same company, different outlets just a couple mins apart. I ended up moving to a flat 15 mins walk from town/work, he moved a touch further out, but drives from home to work in 10 mins, or home to mine... We live relatively close still.

As managers of pubs, we've both always had odd working hours. Anything from starting at 5am, to finishing at 4am, any day of the week.
I was always still fairly "day orientated", the latest I could sleep in until was about 11am (working 5pm-3am).
D has always been nocturnal since I've known him. 11am would be an early rise for him, his typical wake-up being around 1pm.
I used to have to call him on days he had meetings etc to make sure he was up.
People have seen me stood calling over 30 times before he's answered the phone. And that's me knowing it was on loud, because I made sure before I left.
When C was tiny, he'd shout to get up (as babies do). I'd get up, bring him back in the bedroom, get dressed, get him dressed, go downstairs, potter around... D could just sleep through it all.

Since having C, evidently the lay-ins quit, and it was a case of "gotta get up, tough luck".
So, it was me that ended up always up with C.

When we split, I moved onto a flexible working arrangement at work, to accommodate childcare and D's working pattern, etc.
We ended up with a pretty good arrangement, I would have C three nights a week, D would have C three nights a week, and the last night would swap around depending on what D was working.

Then a month ago, I got signed off work until the start of Mat leave, so, essentially, I'm off work from March 2014, to June 2015.

It's been just over four weeks, I've been off.
D has had C four nights in that time. Five now, counting that C's at D's last night.
Two of those nights, plus last night, (so, three of the five), I've asked D to have C due to my early hospital appointments.

C has always been an easy baby. Throughout pregnancy, labour, birth... Easy. Slept through from six months old, solid 12 hour nights... He's an easy child, pretty much just pads along with his day, rarely gets put in the naughty corner because he just seems to understand what is/not acceptable.

He pretty much set his own routine, but in this last month, since I guessed I'd end up having him a lot more, I've spent time kinda solidifying his routine to help give his day some structure.

6:30-7am: wake up. He roots around in his room for ten mins, then pads through to me for ten mins of cuddles before we both get up.
7-7:30am: breakfast.
10am: snack.
12pm: lunch.
12:30pm: go out wherever, walk down the shop or around the block or down the town, or play on the grass outside the flat.
2:30pm: snack.
5pm: dinner.
After dinner: tidy away all toys and stuff from the day.
6:30pm: bedtime songs.
70pm: bed.

On a bad night, after I've put him to bed, C will do that whimpery cry, and I go back to his door and say "bedtime now, C, go to sleep".
I may have to do that twice over a ten min period.
95% of the time, he's quiet as soon as his bedroom door shuts.

Such an easy child.

The past three nights that C has been at D's. (I don't remember anything drastic from the first night he had him).
First of the three nights: D informs me the next day that C woke up at 2:30am, and that housemate got in about ten mins later, so C got up, was up till 5am, then went back to bed and slept until 9am.
I was a bit pissed and figured it meant a rough day but, things happen, right?
Second of the three was last Monday: D tells me next day that C woke him at around 4am, and he (D) didn't realise, just got up and started making breakfast. Then realised the time, so they sat and ate breakfast, then went back to bed, and C slept until about 8:30am.
Okay, D's a clown for not realising is was still freakin dark out, but, whatever.
The last one was last Wednesday night: D drops C back to me Thursday morning and says that C went to sleep around 8pm, and woke that morning at 9am.
So now something's ringing bells... C just, does not sleep that late. I've had him out at a concert back in Jan which he lay, awake, the whole way through, got home at 11pm, straight to sleep, and up at 7am.
He had a good nap that day, about three hours, but still, he was up at 7am.

I've been at my folks this last weekend (Thurs-Mon).
C has gone to bed later each night cause it's granny an grandads, an it's a treat to stay up, an all that.
Gone to bed about 8:30pm each night.
Woke up the four days at 6:30am, 6:30am, 70am, and 7:30am.
No way on Earth that kid was sleeping until 9am.

Over the weekend, my mum reminded me of something that happened when C was tiny (around seven months).
I was in work at 6am, D was off that day. I came home about 4:30pm... House quiet, no sign of anyone. Went upstairs, stood by the nursery door, heard C snuffle. Went into bedroom, D, sound asleep. Went to go out again, he shot awake with a start "what you doing home? Everything okay?", "yeah... It's 4:30, I'm finished...".
Something about the shock in his eye when I said that made me continue...
"Why, what time'd you fall asleep?"
"I haven't been up yet..."
I flew back through to the nursery, which woke C up. He's laying in a nappy that's practically disintegrated, bottle drained dry... Obviously been up shouting/crying at various points of the day while D just slept on through in the room right next door.
He felt absolutely freakin terrible about it, I could see that, and as far as I know, that's the only time it happened.

C used to shout something awful when he woke in the mornings. I mean full-on screamy-tears.
Now I open his bedroom door before I go to bed (typical, the one door in the flat he can't open himself), and leave my bedroom door open anyway, then when he wakes in the morning, he just toodles through and climbs up onto my bed.
No shouts, just smiles.

I know he doesn't have his door open at D's. It's a house, so there's stairs (and no stairgate), and the housemate in the room right next door to D, so he ain't gonna be leaving his or Cs door open.

I'm honestly wondering now, if C is still waking at 6:30-7am, and just... stuck in his room until his shouting finally rouses D two hours later...

I slept like shit last night. (Even at 29w pregnant I'm still sleeping decently, lucky me... I know I was tossing an turning all night worrying C's gonna be okay. It's freaking me out now.
I sent D a text at 7 just said "how's C been?". It hasn't been read yet (now 7:36). He has his phone glued to him for work...

There's no physical harm going on... C loves his dad, that much is absolutely clear the second C sees him he goes running to him, big smiles and hugs.
I just wonder, mentally, what it might be doing to him.

C has very very few words still at the moment. His speech is quite far behind where it should be. (He had a hearing test, and has been to a couple speech therapy sessions already).

I'm really worried he's there shouting/screaming/crying away, and it's effecting him, but there's no way I can prove it, and I can't just stop D having his son...

So, what do I do?

I considered going to court to stop D having him overnight, but again, can't prove anything. I can't just ask D if that's what's happening, he'd never admit it...

I thought about just going over one morning and sitting outside to see what time C starts shouting compared to what time D gets up, but that's crazy.
I thought maybe ask the next door neighbour if they hear C at all in the mornings...

I'm at a complete loss...

If you made it through all that, you're a star. Thank you for reading, and for any insight you can offer. Xx

 

[mylullaby]

He sounds like a fucking selfish prick tbh and I just think he should fucking change his lifestyle/sleeping habits when he is responsible for his own fucking child. But I guess that isn't especially helpful to you. Hmm... it's a tricky one. With the amicable thing in mind (and for your own sanity) I would actually just bring this up with him - no spying/chatting to neighbours (tempting as that may be) but say you're concerned about something he said about C waking up at 9am and given the incident where he was left in his cot all day (you can choose more tactful wording if he's genuinely upset by this) you want to check C is properly taken care of when he's there. Point out that as his mum you know his habits and they do not include 9am lie-ins. Is he sure this happened or could he have been left for a few hours until D woke up? I'd be ducking livid with him if I were you. I think you should say as amicably as possible that you aren't trying to accuse him of anything but C's welfare is your number 1 priority and if there's even a hint that he's not being taken care of you will have no choice but to seek the advice of social services. Not what else to suggest. I don't buy the "didn't hear him" thing anyway - if you're responsible for a child you do what's needed to look after them. If that means the cot goes in your bedroom then so be it. On the other hand, if C really has been left for just a couple of hours (as opposed to all day) it won't actually harm him. It's not ideal and horrid to imagine him crying out, but he is at least safe. Can't D child-proof the house (stair gate?) or take steps to accommodate his own child? He is a father after all and most fathers have to make changes to their lives when a child is born. Sounds like he cannot be fucked to actually deal with his son

 

[Angela2612]

Lacey Im sorry you are having a tough time but I think your mothers intuition is correct. I mean the odd odd occasion my LO has slept in till 9:30 she's usually always up between 6:30 and 8.
I mean it could be genuine he sleeps longer or daddy's or it could very well be he's up and dads asleep still and reading all of this hun I'm swinging for daddy was asleep and never heard him.
Does he have a monitor at his dad's ??? Just that may wake him so then he realises that C is awake possibly ???

Edited to add mylullaby made better points than me he is being irresponsible.

 

[BonzE]

Hello lovely,

have you spoken to D about your concerns? maybe he could set an alarm for just before C usually wakes to go check in on him and bring him to his bed so C isn't left crying if that's whats happening?

xxx

 

[LaceyKeo]

9:32, he's finally read the message I sent him this morning.

Not responded, but hey ho.

Granted if C's woke him up shouting, he hasn't checked his phone straight away, but I'd say he's read that message around the first 15 mins of waking up, which again means he's woken after 9.

Given the fact that C's been up late all weekend and still got up by 7:30 absolute latest, I'm just not believing he's sleeping until 9.

Fishy, too, that he only EVER sleeps until 9 at daddies... No way in heck he's sleeping until 9 at mine... Hmm.

Straight talking to him may well be the best option... I'm just trying to imagine that conversation...
"You say he slept until 9... As his mum, who's spent the last month with him in a constant routine, knowing he wakes up no later than 7:30, even going to bed late... Are you sure he's sleeping until 9? Or are you maybe not hearing him? I know how deeply you sleep..."
"Of course he's sleeping until 9, I'm not gonna ignore my own son"
"I'm not saying you're ignoring him, I mean like, genuinely not hearing him... There was that one time when he was in his cot the entire day..."
"And you know I felt terrible about that one off instance, I'd never leave him like that again"
"Well, I'm just saying... If it's possible you're not hearing him, maybe you could set alarms on your phone to wake you around 7... It wouldn't hurt you to get up at a normal time and C should be kept in his routine anyway, and got up by 7:30 regardless"
"He's fine"
"... Uhm... Okay... Soooo..."

Then he'll just go off to something else, and I'll be none the wiser. Then he'll be telling me C's been up since 7 regardless, and I'll be none the wiser.

It's seriously freaky, what that guy can sleep through.

Mylullaby... Your response was actually very helpful, as it's nice to know I'm not just being silly, or, overprotective, or, trying to think of ways to keep D from having C, and that actually there is something weird going on there.

Angela, I'm glad you can see where I'm coming from. Another mothers perspective is always helpful.

BonzE, the alarm idea is a good one, just gotta figure out how to word it to him.

Thank you guys so much for replying and not thinking I'm completely being OTT xx

 

[KWarbee]

Hi Lacey,

As you know, I'm expecting my first so I've no experience with a little one but didn't want to read and run. I really feel for you. I've heard how strong a mother's instinct is and you have to trust that. If something seems off or you don't feel comfortable about the situation, then you've probably got a decent reason to feel that way.

How does C seem when you pick him up? I'm not sure, but would it be obvious that he'd been left for those few hours? If that continued to happen then I guess there would be signs in your son?

I would be tempted to talk to D. If you've got these concerns then it's your right to voice them. Your son is your priority. Worth talking to D about it first to see his reaction and thoughts on it. You know your son and if waking at 9am is something he would never do, then definitely say something.

Maybe suggest a monitor at D's? Perhaps suggest it without putting any blame on D. Maybe use the fact that C is used to having the doors open so he can reach you in the morning and as he can't do at D's, that a monitor might be useful. Maybe even make a light joke out of it if you have that sort of relationship - 'As I know you're such a heavy sleeper'.

Unless, it really could be that C just has a different routine at D's and his sleep cycle is affected by it? Is there a chance that he really could be sleeping later as he's disturbed in the night? I know it's rare that children do that, but just a thought.

Hope you think of a way to approach it xx

 

[kumber]

I know children's sleepig patterns can change when they're with someone else, but I was under the impression that they slept less, not more! My LO wakes frequently in the night at my mom's but sleeps right through at home.

I have to agree with the others - something is certainly not right and tbh, I don't think your ex can be trusted with your son. The previous incident on its own would be forgivable but alongside these late mornings something just isn't adding up. My first reaction would be to stop D having C overnight full stop (although still allow the daytime) but I understand how that wouldn't necessarily be helpful and may cause more problems. Could you suggest D has C with him in his bedroom, so he might be more likely to wake up?

 

[kumber]

I've just read your previous thread from the 15th, serious alarm bells are ringing for me so goodness k ows what they're doing for you. I think I would be refusing to allow D to have him due to the distress your son is clearly in from a complete change in routine at his father's. In my honest opinion he sounds like he can't be bothered changing his laziness for his son's benefit and that means he can't be trusted.

 

[MrsS143]

Fair enough D not hearing C
But where's the roommate? Is he stone deaf too??

 

[clairebear22]

I think serious words need to be had! I hear my boys (they share a room) rustling around on the monitor the second they start to move. Granted I leave them 5-10 mins to wake up and so I can compose myself too but no child should be left a couple of hours awake in their bed in the morning. I feel really sad for little C.

My OH is a very very heavy sleeper. I get up with the boys everyday because I'm an early riser so it makes sense. However if I wasn't around for some reason I know my OH would wake up as soon as they starts babbling to themselves over the monitor.

A Mothers instinct is almost always right and if he's left C for a long period of time once before it's very easy to believe he'd do it again. It may not even be on purpose but if he's that tired he really shouldn't care for C. He should get you to arrange alternative care for him.

I hope you get something sorted x

 

[BonzE]

I agree with the girls x

 

[Loretta]

My thought was the same as MrsS143. What about the room mate? Do you know them? Could you ask?

 

[mylullaby]

My thought was the same as MrsS143. What about the room mate? Do you know them? Could you ask?

At what point did the room mate create a baby and accept responsibility for the child? It's not his place to ensure the dad behaves the way a responsible dad should. I really don't think it's fair to bring someone else into the parenting equation. It's missing the point isn't it? When the child is staying with his dad, it is up to his dad - and him alone - to ensure he's properly cared for.

 

[mylullaby]

Fair enough D not hearing C
But where's the roommate? Is he stone deaf too??

Room mate is probably thinking "his child, his responsibility" - and rightly so.

 

[MrsS143]

Youd still not listen to the child screaming for 2 hours
Youd wake your roommate up just so you had peace
I would if right next door a wee boy was shouting away from about 730am!

 

[mylullaby]

Sorry for the arsey tone in those replies. My frustration wasn't aimed at you ladies, so apologies if it came across badly. It was aimed at her ex being an incompetent arse hole. Must be hard enough leaving your child for the night as it is, without the added worry that you cannot trust his own parent to look after him! Hope you can get this sorted hunni xxx

 

[mylullaby]

Youd still not listen to the child screaming for 2 hours
Youd wake your roommate up just so you had peace
I would if right next door a wee boy was shouting away from about 730am!

Or maybe he makes himself scarce when it's ex's night to have his child? Or gets off his face and sleeps through hurricanes? Or has the same dubious "condition" as the father, who apparently cannot hear when his own child wakes up? Suggesting that anyone other than the father should take any kind of responsibility in this situation really isn't helpful.

 

[MrsS143]

Im pissed off with him
I dunno if its a female thing that we are programmed to wake at the slightest noise from them... he's clearly missing that 'something'

I wouldn't care about being amicable
I'd just come out and say it
Or as she says sit outside that morning and listen out
If after 20 minutes or so of his cries/shouting being ignored id be pounding on the door and if still no response I'd contact the police
If he cant stir at loud noises hes not capable of hearing if something were to be really wrong x

 

[mylullaby]

Call me sceptical, but I think it's bollocks that he doesn't stir. I think he hears it and chooses not to respond. I also think - based on the previous 'incident' - that he could lie about their future waking up times (if he slept till lunch time, for example, he'll be unlikely to admit he left baby alone in his cot all morning). I do think a frank and honest discussion is needed so he realises how much of an issue this is for you.

 

[LaceyKeo]

The roommate quite often stays at his girlfriends, usually on the nights D has C.

If I was getting C back first thing in the morning, I'd maybe be able to tell (obvious signs of crying), but C changes his mood so quickly it'd be impossible to know like, 5 mins after he stopped that he'd been screaming the place down or anything like that.

The only real signs are that he throws a fit the second he wakes up if he can't get out of his room.

It is possible that he just, sleeps in at D's, I just find it real hard to believe. Especially given that he's just been away for the weekend, gone to sleep late four nights on the trot, and still woken by 7:30. I just find it hard to believe, and extremely coincidental, that one night with dad results in a handy, later, wake-up.

The problem with not allowing D to have C overnight, is still that this is all just speculation. I have exactly zero proof that this is what's happening, it's all just based on what I know of C, compared to what D tells me has gone on.
So like today, he finally messaged saying C had woken at 8am. Even though I messaged him at 7, and he didn't even read it until 9:30. All I'm thinking is "what you mean is, he woke you up around 9, you just don't wanna say so cause you know it ain't right".

I can easily get someone to watch C for the appointments I can't take him to, but his dad needs to see him at some point, and he's had him rather than sending him to a babysitter.
Like he said yesterday about having C last night because I had hospital today (oh the joys of the GTT), and it said it was fine, I could take C to nursery this morning then go hospital, but he said he wanted to have him, so... Couldn't really say no.

He just doesn't seem to think in a father kinda way... It's more like he's "fun uncle" than "dad". I try to tell him Cs routine, and that he needs to stick to it, but... It all just goes over his head.
Example like when I'd clearly told him about Cs routine several times (since it's more or less what he's been doing the last year anyway), so D turns up like half hour before dinner one night (just finished work, wanted to swing round and see C for 10 mins on his way home) with a big fruit pot (one of those things you get at the counter in coffee shops, or, the sandwich section in petrol stations, you know the thing). "Ooh, would C like an apple slice?" I'm like, maybe after dinner... "Oh yeah, probably a good idea", but of course now C's seen the fruit and damn well decided he's having it and daddy ain't gonna stop him.
I didn't bother cooking dinner that night.

But that's by-the-by. There will be differences in the way we parent him, I know that. And there will be times I think he's done things wrong just cause they're not the way I'd do them, and times he'll think I'm wrong... We interact with C differently, that's fine, we're different people. Some of it may bug me, or downright piss me off, but, that's life.
When it comes to "abandoning" him though... That's a different story. Xx

ETA: I said at the top, I think, that roommate is (I understand) not in the house most mornings C is there.
I agree it's absolutely not his place to see Cs dad is looking out for him, however, I also agree that were there a child screaming for more than a few minutes, I think anyone would knock on dad's door, even just with a "is LO alright?".
I've met him once or twice. He seems comfortable around C, asked him how he was, had he had a good day, then disappeared. I don't know how much roommate actually has to do with C, but D maintains he's never left C alone with roommate, even for ten mins to nip down the shop, so I don't think the interaction between them is really, anything.

I honestly do believe D could sleep through C shouting/screaming/crying. I was with the guy eight years. I've seen him sleep through some crazy shit. Guy's a breath up from death once he closes his eyes.

This greatly concerns me should there be a robbery/fire/emergency, also.