Downs test??

[M&Ms]

Personally think everyone should have the test. Not so that they can have an abortion but there is this terrible negative stereotype around care of Downs people and the only way to correct that is if people research it, go see Down's people in person which you are more likely to do to prepare for the arrival of your own Downs child. If that makes any sense.

Both my siblings have Downs, another with Edwards. I had the tests done with both my kids because if I was to have a child with genetic problems I wanted to know so that I could research the help available and prepare for the arrival of my special child. And they do require you to be a more hands on mother than if your child was ordinary.

The only time I have considered abortion of my child is if the tests came back that my child had Edwards. The babies always die, if they make it beyond birth, there is no hope for them. And I would rather let them go, then make them endure all sorts of medical procedures for their very very short life span.

I have a child thats not what the world would perceive as "perfect", she has Polands Syndrome. She has had, and will have for the rest of her life, painful operations to correct physical defects. But she takes it all in her stride, never complains. Do I wish she never had to go through all this? Of course! who would wish that kinda stuff on their child? Do I wish I could change things? most definitely. If I knew that any of my subsequent babies would be the same would I do it all again? in a heartbeat Her tenacity, her bravery are something to be admired and aspired towards, she is my hero..

A friend of mine has lost two babies to Edward's syndrome, horrible condition and one which is often 'not compatible with life'. Really feel for you having that risk in your family Both my friend's babies were by different fathers so it is now clear that she is the carrier so she makes sure she is always using protection to make sure it doesn't happen again.

It's reassuring to see that although one of your children has a condition like she has, and that if any of your subsequent babies were found to have the same condition you would do the same 'in a heartbeat'. It's fantastic how you are coping with everything. Just goes to prove how strong us women can be and can adapt to whatever life throws at us.

I BEG YOUR PARDON? how dear you speak to manda like that you have no right to judge her especialy as you have no children with problems, you have never experianced the agony of having your child in hospital and seeing the pain of opps ect they go through sorry if this sounds harsh but i'm shockked by what you have said, accusing her of terminating her baby, Manda clearly STATED she would have to seriously think about it if the baby has problems and it DEPENDS on the problems ect...also i know Manda and she wouldn't take a dicision like that lightly. so let's not go jumping the gun and lets leave this now, oh and btw i know what it's like to have a child in hospital becasue i was the child in hospital seeing my mum go though what she went though with me as a child and still goes though when i have my major opps

Anna, can I just ask, do you know me or any of my children? I wasn't aware that we were acquainted. How do you know none of my children have problems?

As a child who has been in hospital, and are happily having children now, would it be right for your mother to have aborted you because she had found out that you weren't 'perfect'? Yes it would have spared you the ops you had to endure, but it doesn't mean your mum loved you any less does it?

We all make decisions to have children or try to make children. Since the 1960's we have had pretty good forms of contraception. After having my first baby, I was very depressed and at that point in my life did not feel I could cope with having another child running about and causing chaos. So I went to the doctor and had the injection to prevent me falling pregnant again. When that wasn't agreeing with me, I had a coil fitted. I don't want to appear to preach here, but I don't think in this day and age anybody's pregnancy should come as 'a shock'. You have unprotected sexual intercourse, you run the risk of getting pregnant. It's basic biology.

Whilst I may seem adamantly pro-life, if anyone would care to do a search for some posts I made last February, you will see I DO understand why some women feel they can't cope with another child. At the end of the day, I decided that just because my baby may not be 'perfect' in the eyes of some people, I was going to love him no matter what. Just because people don't lay their hearts out on this forum, does not mean problems do not exist.

This is always going to be topic which evokes emotions in people. If you don't want an issue you raise discussed by people you 'don't know' than may I suggest you don't post it on a public forum?

 

[Manda&Thomas]

you have got a fcuking cheek, ive just read back your posts and you were going to abort your baby at 20 weeks
and you dared have a go at me you silly cow, i couldnt give a flying crap about what you think you no feck all about my situation.
this baby will be loved and im not just going to abort it because its not perfect my son is far from perfect but i wouldnt change him for the world
i stated clearly depending on the problem would depend on my dicision, did you care to ask what problems they would be no?
i will not bring a child into this world that no life, that MY choice im not stupid or foolish (unlike you the women who has 3 kids by 3 different men) and you tell me not to get pregnant
as most people on here no i lost a very good friend last year he had downs along with many other issues so dont be judging me thinking i just dont want an unperfected baby.
its only because the children will be so close in age that i would even think about aborting if this was in 5 years time it wouldnt be an issue as thomas would understand why he has to be left with people ect.
its my life my choice i dont judge you on your things so dont be thinking you can judge me
i dont care what the repurcusions are for this post im past caring to many people on here think they are high and mighty then others when they really need to take a long hard look in the mirror
i have never judged anyone on there choice yet you do it to me so why cant i bit back at your bad choices?

sorry jenna this thread has got way out of hand
xx

 

[Anna23]

Anna, can I just ask, do you know me or any of my children? I wasn't aware that we were acquainted. How do you know none of my children have problems?

i have over my time on pf read a few of your previous posts which is how i know that your children don't have problems.

As a child who has been in hospital, and are happily having children now, would it be right for your mother to have aborted you because she had found out that you weren't 'perfect'? Yes it would have spared you the ops you had to endure, but it doesn't mean your mum loved you any less does it?

i personaly wouldn't of known if my mum had chosen to abort me if she had would i lol however if she knew about my heart problems before i was born it would of been entirly HER decision what she did and i would have respected my mothers dicision, however my mother had no idea of my heart problems so she had no choise.

We all make decisions to have children or try to make children. Since the 1960's we have had pretty good forms of contraception. After having my first baby, I was very depressed and at that point in my life did not feel I could cope with having another child running about and causing chaos. So I went to the doctor and had the injection to prevent me falling pregnant again. When that wasn't agreeing with me, I had a coil fitted. I don't want to appear to preach here, but I don't think in this day and age anybody's pregnancy should come as 'a shock'. You have unprotected sexual intercourse, you run the risk of getting pregnant. It's basic biology.

i don't think this even comes into anything said becasue at the end of the day regardless of what manda did with regards to contraception is none of our buisness and i happen to know of people (myself included) who have used contraception and fell pregnant (including the contraceptive injection) so we have no right to judge anyone who falls pregnant and as you oviously know people do have mistakes.

Whilst I may seem adamantly pro-life, if anyone would care to do a search for some posts I made last February, you will see I DO understand why some women feel they can't cope with another child. At the end of the day, I decided that just because my baby may not be 'perfect' in the eyes of some people, I was going to love him no matter what. Just because people don't lay their hearts out on this forum, does not mean problems do not exist.

I am pro- life myself however i will not judge anyone for having a abortion or anything like that especialy not jumping the band wagon by attacking someone who mearly stated: il be having it again but if its high risk it will change things this time, you totaly misjudged her by saying: "but that doesn't mean you should have the right to terminate your pregnancy just because you messed up and don't think it's fair on Thomas"

This is always going to be topic which evokes emotions in people. If you don't want an issue you raise discussed by people you 'don't know' than may I suggest you don't post it on a public forum?

m&m i only posted what i did becasue i thought you were out of order unnessasary judging manda, i would of posted the same if it had been anyone else.

now let's leave this off the forum if you wanna reply please feel FREE to pm me and we will sort it out through pm's
i hope this all made sence i got the kids playing ratehr loudly behind me so if it didn't soz (and i blame my preggy brain )

 

[nori]

blimey, quite surprised this thread has got so heated. I Personally didnt have the test as i wouldnt have had the amnio and wouldnt have aborted so i didnt see much point.

If the test had come back high risk then i would have been worrying throughout my pregnancy and i had enough to worry about without that. The midwife i saw was actually quite pleased i had given it alot of thought rather than just had it without thinking.

It is a very personal decision and i can see pros and cons for both.

Claire x

 

[M&Ms]

you have got a fcuking cheek, ive just read back your posts and you were going to abort your baby at 20 weeks
and you dared have a go at me you silly cow, i couldnt give a flying crap about what you think you no feck all about my situation.
this baby will be loved and im not just going to abort it because its not perfect my son is far from perfect but i wouldnt change him for the world
i stated clearly depending on the problem would depend on my dicision, did you care to ask what problems they would be no?
i will not bring a child into this world that no life, that MY choice im not stupid or foolish (unlike you the women who has 3 kids by 3 different men) and you tell me not to get pregnant
as most people on here no i lost a very good friend last year he had downs along with many other issues so dont be judging me thinking i just dont want an unperfected baby.
its only because the children will be so close in age that i would even think about aborting if this was in 5 years time it wouldnt be an issue as thomas would understand why he has to be left with people ect.
its my life my choice i dont judge you on your things so dont be thinking you can judge me
i dont care what the repurcusions are for this post im past caring to many people on here think they are high and mighty then others when they really need to take a long hard look in the mirror
i have never judged anyone on there choice yet you do it to me so why cant i bit back at your bad choices?

sorry jenna this thread has got way out of hand
xx

Manda, you say you're not going to abort if it's not perfect, then why say that the results of the test will affect your decision? That is saying 'if the baby isn't perfect, then I will abort'. Now you're saying you won't? Although I know nothing of Thomas' condition, I am pretty sure that you love him wholeheartedly and no less than you would if he didn't have the condition. Could you not love another baby 'like' him the same way? I am sure it will be hard work and there will be times when you have to be away from Thomas if the other baby needs treatment, but that could happen with a baby without the condition too. Thomas is a very young baby at the moment and even until he is much older he will probably accept periods when you have to be away from him.

You say you don't judge, yet you mention that I have 3 children by 3 different fathers. So what? I was married to my daughter's father, engaged to be married to my son's father (until he battered me at 5 months pregnant), and have been with my fiance now for a year. ALL of my children were planned. When I haven't been planning children, I have used contraception (mainly the coil). I considered aborting my son at 20 weeks as I didn't think I could cope with a non-perfect baby on my own. I cancelled my appointment for the abortion when I realised just how selfish I was being. I think you've been very brave in how you have coped with Thomas, you've proved to yourself that you can do it, I just don't understand how you think it would be an easier option to abort. Abortion isn't just a way of getting rid of a problem, it creates more problems for the mum emotionally (read what I said about my friend - I've been the one there to pick up the pieces for her).

I really hope the results of the test come back as you would wish them to be. You're right, it's a decision only you can make, but please make sure it's one that is truly right for you.

If you (or anyone else) want to discuss, please PM me or we can take it to msn.

 

[Manda&Thomas]

just to finaly add that
i did not at any point say i would abort the child if it has issues you assumed i ment any problems and that i would definatly abort
thats not what i said
i think you have got your wires crossed re-read what i origanal put and you will see that i havent edited any of my posts.
if the child has the same problems as thomas i will keep it, its only problems like downs/spina bifida things that are very serious by anyones standerds that i would CONSIDER aborting, its not a definate but i would have to think about it yes
i think we will have to agree to disagree on this one as it could go on forever and tbh i dont think anyone needs the hassle at the moment
xx

 

[Trudyscrumptious76]

I personally wouldn't have the test as the outcome would affect my pg. But having read Squiglets post it's a good idea to have the tests for the purpose of education. Your girls sound amazing and you sound like a mum in a million. I just wanted to say I hope I can have half the strength with my children, that you must have to have everyday.

As for everything else we're supposed to be here to support not to judge. Jenna asked for opinions and that's what she got. It's not for anyone to comment on someone elses opinion unless that person has asked for comments. It's hard enough having a baby, especially for those of us who have waited so long for this moment and suffered losses along the way. Lets just all be there for each other.

 

[beanie]

If you don't want an issue you raise discussed by people you 'don't know' than may I suggest you don't post it on a public forum?

It is also a forum where people should feel able to post their issues and concerns without being overly judged by people. If you cannot answer in a polite unjudgemental way perhaps you should think about posting too?

I think perhaps there are a few of you that need to take a step back from this.

 

[babyblonde]

Blimey! I can't leave you all for five minutes can I?????

This is obviously a very heated debate and all I want to do is answer the original question:

We have decided not to have the test - mainly from the point of view of my husband. I wouldn't abort no matter what the result re: Downs (I have worked with adults with Downs and seeing the rich lives they can enjoy with parents who know how to support them well I couldn't deny them that).

Hubby's view is that if the baby arrived and wasn't "perfect" (inverted commas as I'm sure in a parent's eyes their child is perfect whatever) he'd love him/her anyway - but if he knew the baby was going to have problems (or had a likelihood of) he might feel differently.

So, we've decided not to have the test and are both happy with this - although Squiglet does make some excellent points. I honestly can't say what we would do in the case of Edward's syndrome where the baby wouldn't survive - I don't think realistically anyone knows something like that til they are in that situation. Am I right in thinking that signs of this can be picked up on the later scans anyway? (or am I making that up?....)

 

[M&Ms]

So, we've decided not to have the test and are both happy with this - although Squiglet does make some excellent points. I honestly can't say what we would do in the case of Edward's syndrome where the baby wouldn't survive - I don't think realistically anyone knows something like that til they are in that situation. Am I right in thinking that signs of this can be picked up on the later scans anyway? (or am I making that up?....)

From my experience with my friend, twice, it is something which shows up as 'abnormal' at the 12 week scan. She had to wait til 18 weeks to have an amniocentesis (sp? sorry can never spell that word), where they checked the fluid extracted and found whatever it is that they look for. In both cases, she had another scan at that stage and found that the baby had already died

Things might have changed now as this was about 5 or 6 years ago...

 

[babyblonde]

Oh PS - can I just agree with whoever said about the Autism thing.

My brother has Asperger's Syndrome and in many ways his life has been hard at times - but he is the sweetest chap and I am proud to call him my brother - wouldnt change him for the world, in a way his disorder is what makes him 'him'.

There is a genetic link with ASD so there is a chance our child could have Autism of some sort - but even if there was a test for it I would'nt want it as it wouldnt change anything.

Having been through what we have recently, any child would be a gift to us.

 

[Squiglet]

I personally wouldn't have the test as the outcome would affect my pg. But having read Squiglets post it's a good idea to have the tests for the purpose of education. Your girls sound amazing and you sound like a mum in a million. I just wanted to say I hope I can have half the strength with my children, that you must have to have everyday.

Thank you hun

So, we've decided not to have the test and are both happy with this - although Squiglet does make some excellent points. I honestly can't say what we would do in the case of Edward's syndrome where the baby wouldn't survive - I don't think realistically anyone knows something like that til they are in that situation. Am I right in thinking that signs of this can be picked up on the later scans anyway? (or am I making that up?....)

You'd probably know without the tests tbh. Really severely disabled babies have a multitude of problems from heart defects, lung, bones, kidneys...pretty much everything. They aren't as active as ordinary babies and they are significantly smaller sized from other babies at the same gestation. They really are very very poorly.

Downs/spina bifida aren't really severe disabilities as such. And often in milder cases don't show up even on the nucal fold scans. Thats how my sister is here Her mother had the test to see if she was having a downs, it came back high risk, she had a further test that came back negative so didn't go ahead with the abortion...and I have a wonderful sister because of that medical mistake

I won't judge people on their choices. Some people legitimately can't cope with disabilities, both my siblings biological parents are proof of that, and having handicapped people in the family you realise that a lot of people struggle with this idea. Thats fine. The same way I couldn't cope with having an Edwards baby and putting my girls through what I went through as a kid. We all make our decisions in life and we live with those consequences . People will always judge you in this life by what you do and do not do, regardless of the situation or what you do (you're damed if you do and you're damed if you don't...just look at the parents of the conjoined twins who recently died ). Whats important is how you would judge yourself.

Edited to repair quotes

 

[sueken]

I have to say i'm quiet shocked how this thread has turned out,it's a thread about a downs test not about implcations of abortion.
I myself had an abortion booked many years ago as i was 17 and alone,i was pressured by the babies father and family.
I couldn't do it,i keeped my daughter and with the help of my family i had Jenna who is my angel.Jenna is also autistic with learning and behavioural problems.She's now 22 and will be looked after me for the rest of my life.
She went to our local special school so i've met lots of parents with kids with all sorts of problems over the years,and yes caring for a disabled child is hard but it can also be rewarding.

I'm as i said not taking any tests as i wouldn't abort if the results were bad but i do understand the peolpe that would.

I'm also a firm beliver that my daughters autism developed after she had the MMR vaccine,but i have since let the rest of my children have the vaccine,i've seen children who had measles at birth and had terrible disabilities and gone on to die at an early age,so i would rather have 4 children with autism than 1 that was diabled through measles.

Probably totally off track here and i don't mean to upset anyone.

 

[Jaded Diamond]

I'm so totally torn between having the scan to tell me (although i wouldn't have the invasive tests) and not.
Because the results of the test wouldn't change the outcome of the pregnancy for us, it would be more so that we can be prepared for what the future would contain. (i'm big on my research and being prepared for whats coming)
But from what you girls have said if it did come back high risk then I'd be really worried about the baby in my tummy and hoping that my body can provide everything properly for the baby. I'm paranoid about my body not being good enough as it is lol.
xx

 

[bizzygirl101]

Last time and this time I will be having the private nuchal fold scan and blood test, my sister in law has a little girl with downs and the other one has a chromosonal abnormality that carries a high risk of downs, edwards etc.. I realise its a personal choice but if it came back with a high risk I would have an ammnio done, they are very routine in the states and the chance of miscarriage is very very small

Just what we have both decided xx

 

[Tenshineko]

Thanks ladies, i still dont think its right for us and now i know im not the only one turning it down i feel better. I would never have the 2nd tests if it came back as high risk anyway even though my midwife said the increased chance of micarriage is only 1% . Just dont need the extra worry of something being wrong. When the baby is born i know we will love it regardless and i cant risk miscarrying no matter how small the chance is. Since im only 19 the chance of me having a downs baby is very small but theres always a chance. But i think its still best for us not to get tested.

 

[ejjie]

I'm struggling with this decision too. The midwife explained it to me at the last scan but because I was upset about the other news it didn't really sink in. I think she told me that if it came back as high risk, the invasive tests had a 1 in 100 chance of causing a miscarriage which really worried me. She said that unless I wanted to go all the way with the tests I should choose not to have the 1st set done.

I don't know if I could go all the way or not because of the risks of miscarriage or what we would choose to do if the baby was high risk after all the tests. I've never considered myself able to look after a disabled child but then I've never been pregnant before and I am in love with this baby already so maybe I would cope fine. It's such a hard decision.

It's so confusing I don't know what to do and have to decide by Wednesday

 

[bizzygirl101]

Its something only you and your OH can decide hun, have a good chat with him, men are pants at talking about this sort of thing

xxxx

 

[melissa5317]

When I was pregnant I decided not to have the test done for two reasons:

1. my sister-in-law is very heavily downs, so I'm fully aware of the implications of taking care of someone with downs syndrome, and though I can understand why someone would want to know beforehand, for me it was an ethical issue of my baby's safety over my need to know that.

2. I know someone who had the test done in the second trimester and ended up having a stillbirth because of it.

I think it's definitely a personal choice, and it's got to be a harder decision for someone to make who hasn't had the chance to take care of someone with a disability.

 

[M&Ms]

As anyone reading the rest of this thread will know, this is a subject I feel very strongly about.

If you're at all unsure about having the test, don't. It's not accurate. It's by no means definitive. Then it leaves you with the horrible choice of if the results DO come back as high risk, do you have the amnio which carries (however a small) the risk of causing a miscarriage, do you abort the baby (who might be fine if the test was wrong) or just wait and see what happens?

Not so many years ago, we didn't have these tests and therefore didn't have this decision to make. Women did what I am doing (and lots of other ladies by reading this thread) and waited til the baby was born. Once you hold that baby in your arms, you will love it unconditionally whatever problems it may or may not have.