Threat to take new-born over non existant emotional abuse

babsi

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By David Harrison, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:42am BST 26/08/2007
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... aby126.xml

'A pregnant woman has been told that her baby will be taken from her at birth because she is deemed capable of "emotional abuse", even though psychiatrists treating her say there is no evidence to suggest that she will harm her child in any way.

Social services' recommendation that the baby should be taken from Fran Lyon, a 22-year-old charity worker who has five A-levels and a degree in neuroscience, was based in part on a letter from a paediatrician she has never met.

Hexham children's services, part of Northumberland County Council, said the decision had been made because Miss Lyon was likely to suffer from Munchausen's Syndrome by proxy, a condition unproven by science in which a mother will make up an illness in her child, or harm it, to draw attention to herself.

Under the plan, a doctor will hand the newborn to a social worker, provided there are no medical complications. Social services' request for an emergency protection order - these are usually granted - will be heard in secret in the family court at Hexham magistrates on the same day.

From then on, anyone discussing the case, including Miss Lyon, will be deemed to be in contempt of the court.

Miss Lyon, from Hexham, who is five months pregnant, is seeking a judicial review of the decision about Molly, as she calls her baby. She described it as "barbaric and draconian", and said it was "scandalous" that social services had not accepted submissions supporting her case.

"The paediatrician has never met me," she said. "He is not a psychiatrist and cannot possibly make assertions about my current or future mental health. Yet his letter was the only one considered in the case conference on August 16 which lasted just 10 minutes."

Northumberland County Council insists that two highly experienced doctors - another consultant paediatrician and a medical consultant - attended the case conference.

The case adds to growing concern, highlighted in a series of articles in The Sunday Telegraph, over a huge rise in the number of babies under a year old being taken from parents. The figure was 2,000 last year, three times the number 10 years ago.

Critics say councils are taking more babies from parents to help them meet adoption "targets".

John Hemming, the Liberal Democrat MP and chairman of the Justice for Families campaign group, said the case showed "exactly what is wrong with public family law".

He added: "There is absolutely no evidence that Fran would harm her child. However, a vague letter from a paediatrician who has never met her has been used in a decision to remove her baby at birth, while evidence from professionals treating her, that she would have no problems has been ignored."

Mr Hemming was concerned that "vague assertions" of Munchausen's Syndrome by proxy - now known as "fabricated and invented illness" - had been used to remove a number of children from parents in the North-East.

Miss Lyon came under scrutiny because she had a mental health problem when she was 16 after being physically and emotionally abused by her father and raped by a stranger.

She suffered eating disorders and self-harm but, after therapy, graduated from Edinburgh University and now works for two mental health charities, Borderline and Personality Plus.

Dr Stella Newrith, a consultant psychiatrist, who treated Miss Lyon for her childhood trauma for a year, wrote to Northumberland social services stating: "There has never been any clinical evidence to suggest that Fran would put herself or others at risk, and there is certainly no evidence to suggest that she would put a child at risk of emotional, physical or sexual harm."

Despite this support, endorsed by other psychiatrists and Miss Lyon's GP, social services based their recommendation partly on a letter from Dr Martin Ward Platt, a consultant paediatrician, who was unable to attend the meeting.'
 
i am half way through my degree in social work and its for the above reasons i dont want to work in child protection or mental health, theres so many what ifs and wrong decisions made that i dont want to be part of being stigmatised by others as to what social services do

i will stick to working with older people and the homeless!
 
So, have I uderstood it right that because some has decided that 'on paper' she is at risk of suffering MSBP she must have her child removed from her?? Surely they should put her under monitoring or something if they think this is risky?? Or have I understood that wrong?
Sounds a bit extreme.....or that there is more to it than what is detailed in the article :think:
 
I said this before in 2nd tri when this story came up...in GMTV... This sounds like baby stealing for the purposes of raising adoption statistics. Everyone knows that babies are adopted out more easily than kids...

And I had the same mental health problems when I was younger AND was sectioned for 28 days...and I have never ever hurt my child. I don't even smack her.

I pride myself on the fact that she is an extremely healthy little girl. I had to twist and break docs arms to get them to assess her for hearing/speech problems due to her glue ear and the missing muscles in her right arm (which is a physical malformation) . In fact the only time (touch wood) when she was rushed into hospital was at 9 months with meningitis... and I couldn't exactly have caused that either.

It's just rubbish and social services are just trying to steal the baby.

Münchhausen by proxy usually comes from mothers with a history of attention seeking and hypochondria. When the attention wears off after the pregnancy and little baby, that's when the babies start getting ill again.. Its also quite rare from what I hear... Fran's illnesses seem to show a self hatred (ie self harm and anorexia are forms of body dismorphia and inner hatred).

When Tia popped out, I knew I could never hurt her or anyone else.

I really feel sorry for her... she must be absolutely terrified.... If she comes across here though she might be able to hide away. Things like taking babies only happen here in very severe cases of abuse and then the babies are generally placed within the family.

I hope she beats them and proves she would make a fantastic mum... GO FRAN!!!!

:pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:
 
There has to to be more to it than what we know- surely?
 
There is blatantly more to this story!!!! I don't think it can be as black and white as that.

I saw it on GMTV and said to the OH there must be more to it than that...
 
frangelle said:
There is blatantly more to this story!!!! I don't think it can be as black and white as that.

I saw it on GMTV and said to the OH there must be more to it than that...

Actually there doesn't have to be "blatantly" more to this story at all. I know someone who has had a very similar experience to this lady. Her baby was removed from her minutes after birth because a doctor had made a report to social services that her self harming (which she hadn't done while pregnant) and the fact she had been sectioned in the months before she got pregnant made her a risk for harming the baby. It took her 6 months to get back her child, six months gone for nothing other than some quack and his God complex believing he was all knowing.
She is a wonderful mother who had to fight very hard to build a relationship with a baby who was ripped from her arms at birth. It does happen, it often is for nothing and there isnt always more too it.
 
I'm worried now :cry:

When my body finally realizes that i want a baby...and i have one...now i've got to worry about them taking it away because i used to self harm...

great... :roll:
:cry:
 
Melanie said:
frangelle said:
There is blatantly more to this story!!!! I don't think it can be as black and white as that.

I saw it on GMTV and said to the OH there must be more to it than that...

Actually there doesn't have to be "blatantly" more to this story at all. I know someone who has had a very similar experience to this lady. Her baby was removed from her minutes after birth because a doctor had made a report to social services that her self harming (which she hadn't done while pregnant) and the fact she had been sectioned in the months before she got pregnant made her a risk for harming the baby. It took her 6 months to get back her child, six months gone for nothing other than some quack and his God complex believing he was all knowing.
She is a wonderful mother who had to fight very hard to build a relationship with a baby who was ripped from her arms at birth. It does happen, it often is for nothing and there isnt always more too it.

On GMTV they mentioned she had mental illness issues and something about a psychotic episode with her partner...

Mental illness can be a great risk to a child.
 
paperface said:
I'm worried now :cry:

When my body finally realizes that i want a baby...and i have one...now i've got to worry about them taking it away because i used to self harm...

great... :roll:
:cry:

dont worry hun, loads of people self harm and go on to have a family. :hug:
 
I live in hexham and there are some really neglectful/drug using families about that social services are not really concerned about.

I don't understand why they are so concerned about her unless there is more to it. I also don't think that the press will be party to all the details and therefore we are not either.

I remember cleaning the house manically after i got home with jonah in case the health visitor reported me and got him taken away...I'm betting loads of us felt like this... unless i really am a nutter?!

Anyway, what I'm trying to say, clumsily, is that like everything in life, there is always 2 sides to every story.

Sorry if I've caused any offence.
 
frangelle said:
Melanie said:
frangelle said:
There is blatantly more to this story!!!! I don't think it can be as black and white as that.

I saw it on GMTV and said to the OH there must be more to it than that...

Actually there doesn't have to be "blatantly" more to this story at all. I know someone who has had a very similar experience to this lady. Her baby was removed from her minutes after birth because a doctor had made a report to social services that her self harming (which she hadn't done while pregnant) and the fact she had been sectioned in the months before she got pregnant made her a risk for harming the baby. It took her 6 months to get back her child, six months gone for nothing other than some quack and his God complex believing he was all knowing.
She is a wonderful mother who had to fight very hard to build a relationship with a baby who was ripped from her arms at birth. It does happen, it often is for nothing and there isnt always more too it.

On GMTV they mentioned she had mental illness issues and something about a psychotic episode with her partner...

Mental illness can be a great risk to a child.

Totally agree with you frangelle!! there is always two sides to every story and the press focus on little things to make it a better story for themselves
 
Yes you are right mental illness can be a great risk to a child but the important word there is CAN. I am mentally ill. I struggled for years before Thea was born. I spent months and months in mental hospitals. I self harmed, i had episodes where i totally lost the plot.

I am NOT a danger to my child, and im a bloody brilliant mother. My problems seemed to get better and better as i was pregnant and I can honestly say that im now the happiest i have ever been because of my daughter. Yet it sounds very much like you would agree with social services in a heartbeat if they had wanted to take Thea away from me when she was born. Lovely. Mental illness does not mean bad mother.
 
Melanie said:
Yes you are right mental illness can be a great risk to a child but the important word there is CAN. I am mentally ill. I struggled for years before Thea was born. I spent months and months in mental hospitals. I self harmed, i had episodes where i totally lost the plot.

I am NOT a danger to my child, and im a bloody brilliant mother. My problems seemed to get better and better as i was pregnant and I can honestly say that im now the happiest i have ever been because of my daughter. Yet it sounds very much like you would agree with social services in a heartbeat if they had wanted to take Thea away from me when she was born. Lovely. Mental illness does not mean bad mother.

YOU may not be a danger to a child. I never said mental illness made you a bad mother???

From personal experience (I'm not going into it) I know that mental illness CAN IN SOME CASES endanger the child, and put their llives and mental health at risk, and that maybe what has happened here?

You are just putting words into my mouth. i didnt say everyone with mental illness deserves to have their kids taken off them did I? You have experience of mental health from the mothers perspective, mine is from the childs therefore our opinions are bound to differ anyway...
 
Then im not the only one making assumations, im not just speaking from a mothers perspective. I have the perspective of both the mother and the child. My mam is Bipolar. For the majoirity of my childhood she wouldnt take her meds and yes there were times when our life was a bloody nightmare as a result.

However this woman has not even once done a single thing to her child because it isnt born yet! Its disgusting to take a child away and break up a family because of something that a doctor who has never actually met the woman feels may happen at some point. Thats insane. I cant believe anyone thinks that is a good idea!

And i apologise maybe i did read too much into what you said but thats just how it came over to me. The dangers of reading rather than talking i suppose!
 
Melanie said:
Then im not the only one making assumations, im not just speaking from a mothers perspective. I have the perspective of both the mother and the child. My mam is Bipolar. For the majoirity of my childhood she wouldnt take her meds and yes there were times when our life was a bloody nightmare as a result.

However this woman has not even once done a single thing to her child because it isnt born yet! Its disgusting to take a child away and break up a family because of something that a doctor who has never actually met the woman feels may happen at some point. Thats insane. I cant believe anyone thinks that is a good idea!

And i apologise maybe i did read too much into what you said but thats just how it came over to me. The dangers of reading rather than talking i suppose!

I'm not gonna go into detail about my experiences, because it's not something I really like to dwell on, so I'm gonna have to leave it there, as I cannot say what I want to say with out telling the whole story. And I'm not gonna post on here like I'm attention seeking or something!!!

So we'll agree to disagree...

BUT I did NOT say all people with mental illness are bad parents... that would mean all mothers with PND (including myself) were sh*t parents, which we all know is rubbish!
 
everyone is different and although you are clearly not a harm to your daughter they seem to think this lady is, i think there may be things not said in this article about her that add's to the reasons for the baby being taken away
 

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