Realistically what are my chances for this preg?

[buddabun]

I m/c a month ago, no AF since then and am pregnant. Apparently 5 weeks (although I'm not entirely sure if it's 4 or 5...). First day of m/c bleeding was 13th October if anyone can enlighten me?

I am of course terrified of losing this one. The last time we found out at 1pm and by 6 I was bleeding (by that time hubby had convinced me to tell all our families). Monday I was in hospital, Tuesday all my symptoms were gone and Weds I was discharged. Now already this pregnancy has lasted longer than the last (I have made it through 24hrs without bleeding) but the stress everytime I go for a wee is killing me. I can't spend 9 months worrying but I can't seem to stop.

I have read conflicting reports: 2nd m/c is more likely, or less likely and frankly I don't know what to believe. Time is on my side I suppose (I am 23... hubby is 36 ) and people keep saying "You're still young, you have lots of time" (really helpful right?) but honestly, what are my chances of miscarrying this little bub before I hit the 12 week mark?

A very stressed out Buddabun

 

[MagicMarkers]

I have absolutely no idea on any of this but im keeping my fingers crossed and sending lots of hugs your way hun, useless but well intentioned thats me congrats

 

[buddabun]

LOL not useless at all. I just can't bare it. I can't work where I live at the mo so waiting for hubby to get home and distract me is just awful!

I am going to the loo every half hour, mainly just to check, and the slight nausea that I did have has subsided so now of course my brain is going into overdrive wondering if that is it.

I know it's stupid and I'm being overly paranoid but isn't everyone? I mean, now we know what can go wrong (and that it can and has happened to us) it really puts a damper on anything we did have.

I am not religious in the slightest but I keep using the phrase "praying". And I really am 'praying' that this one goes the distance. Going back through this forum and seeing some of the women who had exactly the same concerns as me early on whose tickers now say "25 weeks pregnant" etc is reassuring that it can happen. I just really want my chance you know?

 

[Aida]

I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you, I really hope that your pregnancy sticks this time

I have not experienced any m/c before this pregnancy but I can definately say that I was extremely paranoid the first trimester, and I'm still not taking anything forgranted and praying everyday that everything goes well. Like you I am not religious but when you really want and need something, you hold on to everything that gives you a bit of hope.

 

[Kittykins]

It sounds to me that what you experienced before was a chemical pregnancy. I had one at 4w6 this time last year. Basically, if the HPTs were + for only a few days at most (3 in my case) before the bleeding started, and your period is either on time or less than a week late, it's classified as a chemical (or biochemical) pregnancy rather than a miscarriage. It is a type of very early m/c, but the reason it happens is that it was never viable in the first place and never implanted. Most women would not have realised it had happened - it's simply that those of us ttc test early or when AF is only a couple of days late.

It is thought that up to 60-70% of fertilised eggs fail to implant properly, resulting in 'chemical pregnancies' - but most women wouldn't have a clue.

The good news is that for medical purposes, it doesn't count as a m/c. For example, it's noted on all my files, but I am considered to have had one m/c (@16w) and one chemical pg (@<5w). All the consultants I saw for my recent m/c discounted the chem as having any effect on future pregancies - they said it's a good sign that you're ovulating and that sperm is being produced, and that they're meeting, but it is so common as to be irrelevant medically (not necessarily emotionally). The exception would be if a woman persistently had chem pgs - my gynae said he would start investigating if I had 3 or more consecutive (i.e. consecutive months) pregnancies that lasted only a few days, or if I had 5 or 6 over the course of a year, and no other pregnancies. Reason being it would have to be that recurrent to be abnormal, and that recurrence might indicate an underlying problem with implantation, e.g. progesterone levels, structural problems with the uterus, etc.

So basically - you have exactly the same chances of m/c as for a first pregnancy, i.e. 1 in 4. Which means a 3 in 4 chance you'll be absolutely fine!

 

[buddabun]

kittykins thanks for that

The woman I saw has noted it in my files as a complete miscarriage. I did think that a chem. preg. was where the egg never implanted but just showed up on early PTs before AF was due, hence the woman thinking she's pregnant but coming on all the same.

I really am no expert but by the time the bleeding stopped I was 5 days after my missed period.

Anyway hopefully we are back to 1 in 4 and this one will have no genetic defects. I am lucky in that I have a bit of a biological background and so know not to blame myself but it's sad nonetheless.

I am feeling a little less paranoid today (after all, the last time I found out I was pregnant I got to enjoy it for approximately 5 hours before the bleeding started so I am already a day up on that ) and a little sicker which I am taking as a good sign!

Thanks for your help in allaying my silly worried

 

[Kittykins]

A "complete miscarriage" is when the uterus is emptied of all "products of conception" (nice term...). "Missed miscarriage", by contrast, is when the foetus has died or not developed, but there has been no bleeding. "Partial miscarriage" is when there has been bleeding, or a procedure, but there are "retained products of conception (RPOC)".

My notes, for example, say "probable expected miscarriage at 7 weeks", "missed miscarriage at 10 weeks", "partial miscarriage - RPOC after D&C at 12 weeks", "partial miscarriage - RPOC after D&C at 14 weeks" and "complete miscarriage at 16 weeks" - but I didn't have 5 miscarriages, that was all for the same pregnancy. The terms refer to the different stages of m/c.

So the "complete miscarriage" term on your file means that the woman you saw was satisfied that at the time she saw you, there was no remaining evidence of pregnancy. (This is really important for reasons of infection - if there was anything left, they would want to monitor it carefully, and possibly remove it medically/surgically, to avoid any risk to your health).

When the bleeding stopped is irrelevant - by the time I stop bleeding from my period each month, I'm usually 5 days after my period is due! It's when it starts that counts for dating purposes. If you had completely finished bleeding within a week of your expected period date, that makes it sound even more likely it was a chemical pregnancy. The fact you had a positive pregnancy test for just five hours reinforces that. Implantation isn't an instant process - it takes place over a number of days as the blastocyst burrows deeper into the uterine wall and attaches itself more and more securely. HCG is produced almost as soon as it starts to implant - but takes a few hours to get into the urine. For whatever reason, the attachment process just didn't work properly the first time you get pg - which is extremely common.

A chemical pregnancy doesn't have to be before a period is due, it's just that it's far more likely that they will be picked up by someone testing early! Obviously, the longer you wait after your period is due but fails to turn up, the more likely it is to be a viable +. When I had a chem pg, I got +HPTs the day my period was due, and the following two days, before it went negative and my period turned up 3 days late. I then had 5 days of bleeding that was heavier than usual, with dark clots. Both the gynaecologists I saw, as well as my GP, said that they usually considered any pregnancy that lasted less than a week (approx time for completion of implantation) to be a chemical pregnancy rather than a clinical miscarriage, and to have little or no effect on future pregnancy chances. Certainly it seems that most research articles consider clinical pregnancies to be ones of over 7 days' duration, independently verified through blood tests/urine tests by a doctor or through u/s.

Basically, the effect of it is emotional rather than physical - even for 5 hours, you'd have had your hopes built up and then shattered - but if you consider that if you had not done the lunchtime test, only the evening one, you'd never even have known you were pregnant, then that should reassure you that your current pregnancy shouldn't be affected in any way by your past experience. Your head knows, your body doesn't! I read some research a while back which suggests that the average woman, not trying to conceive, but not using contraception, might normally experience 4 chemical pregnancies in a year without being aware of it - the only outward sign is that she might think her period was a couple of days late. I thought I'd posted an excerpt on here somewhere (it's on a password-protected academic database so I couldn't link to it), but if not, I'll try to find it again. If you're working in a biological research area and have an ATHENS password, you could do a search yourself through JSTOR or ProjectMuse - I think it was on the Cambridge Journals site.


I know it's hugely disappointing to have such a short-lived pregnancy, but you should view that as a very reassuring sign that everything's working normally. The fact that you're pregnant again so quickly should reinforce that. It took me another 8 months to get pg after my chem, and even then it turned into a complicated miscarriage! Personally, I don't have any residual fears from the chem - I can cope with that because it's statistically normal. I have more of a problem with overcoming fears of another missed m/c, and only finding out on a scan... As for pregnancy symptoms, it's quite usual to get a few very early, at 4 or maybe 5 weeks, as the progesterone rise kicks in, and then for the symptoms to subside as the body adjusts. Often morning sickness doesn't really kick in till about 7 weeks, even if you feel nauseous around the time your period would have been due. With my last pg, ironically I didn't feel nauseous at all till almost 8 weeks - by which time we'd already been told the pregnancy was likely to be non-viable. From that point until about 13 weeks, I felt quite sick. So I'm not paying too much attention to early symptoms coming and going!

 

[Waiting4amiracle]

I m/c a month ago, no AF since then and am pregnant. Apparently 5 weeks (although I'm not entirely sure if it's 4 or 5...). First day of m/c bleeding was 13th October if anyone can enlighten me?

I am of course terrified of losing this one. The last time we found out at 1pm and by 6 I was bleeding (by that time hubby had convinced me to tell all our families). Monday I was in hospital, Tuesday all my symptoms were gone and Weds I was discharged. Now already this pregnancy has lasted longer than the last (I have made it through 24hrs without bleeding) but the stress everytime I go for a wee is killing me. I can't spend 9 months worrying but I can't seem to stop.

I have read conflicting reports: 2nd m/c is more likely, or less likely and frankly I don't know what to believe. Time is on my side I suppose (I am 23... hubby is 36 ) and people keep saying "You're still young, you have lots of time" (really helpful right?) but honestly, what are my chances of miscarrying this little bub before I hit the 12 week mark?

A very stressed out Buddabun

Hi there
As soon as conception as took place doctors always class this as 4wks pregnant when you missed a period and because you have not had a period this would still be classed as 4wks pregnant so your right you are proberely 5 wks pregnant this does not mean that you would have another mc cause you had a bfp before this pregnancy and then bled you just need to put that a side and look forward to this pregnancy be positive cause this pregnancy is going the way it should be your embryo has stuck tight

Its only natural to be worried because of the previouce loss i am the same i have lost quite a few pregnancy but i have never bled i go to scan at 6wks and 8wks and see a heartbeat and then go back at 10wks and there is no heart beat .. Different hospitals use different names for a loss like mine
some being missed abortion what a horrible name but the term for this word is where the baby has aborted its self which could be down to some chromosomol defect and this was never the case with me because tests proven my babys was fine and i never bled and then the other name is
missed miscarraige and uterine death..

missed miscarraige is where the baby has died from 8wks to 16wks and you have had no bleed
and have to have a dnc to remove baby because no bleeding will start ...

A blighted ovum is when there is a sac seen but no fetal pole and what sounds to me is that your first pregnancy emplanted because the embryo has to implant to produce hcg to give you that bfp and whats happend is there could of been a problem with the embryo and it cancels itself out and stop growing
this happens to many many woman it has also happend to me before and to so many ladies that still dont even know to this day..

Them that do know is the ones that are trying for a baby and test early to know that they was pregnant others just think there af is a few days late and then when af shows they are never the wiser ...

Congratulations on your pregnancy and stay positive keep taking your folic acid hun
xx

 

[*sara*]

Im sorry for your loss but also congratulations on your pregnancy, what your feeling is completely normal, its only natural to worry when you have lost, i have had 2 miscarriages this yr and am now pregnant again im nearly 18wks but it hasnt stopped me from worrying, this pregnancy hasnt exactly been going smoothly what with having a few bleeds and then being told i was high risk for a down syndrome baby! Its been very stressfull and i know i wont relax untill baby is here. All i can say is take each day as it comes and try to enjoy your pregnancy.

 

[buddabun]

thank you guys so much.

I was obviously misunderstanding what a chem. preg. was. I assumed it was just testing +ve before AF was due.

I only ever took the two tests for the last one - both in the afternoon. They didn't even check my HCG levels until 2 days later (useless system they have out here)... and they were 7.1 then so next to nothing.

Anyway I am trying to enjoy this one but it is hard knowing it could pack up and leave at any point. I'm sure you're all the same being paranoid everytime you go for a pee...

By the by is it normal to have a sore abdomen. Like a kind of ache/pull? I have a sore back too which I've read is normal but...

 

[*sara*]

Its normal to have period type aches pains im still getting them, if its in your abdomen you maybe pulled something as i wouldnt have thought that would be pregnancy related.

 

[Kittykins]

They didn't even check my HCG levels until 2 days later (useless system they have out here)... and they were 7.1 then so next to nothing.

don't know where you are but that's better than where I am! They didn't check HCG levels at all, not even to monitor back to zero after a D&C (I had to show +HPTs to my doctor to get referred back for scans which showed they'd missed the sac...). I got my BFP two weeks ago this time round, and am waiting for an early scan date in the next couple of weeks, but HCG levels still won't be monitored.

By the by is it normal to have a sore abdomen. Like a kind of ache/pull? I have a sore back too which I've read is normal but...

Oh yes! Bit like AF cramps, which is worrying... this time for me the pulling and discomfort lasted from 10dpo to 18dpo. I had a really sore back for about 4 or 5 days, it's much less sore now.

 

[Kittykins]

A blighted ovum is when there is a sac seen but no fetal pole and what sounds to me is that your first pregnancy emplanted because the embryo has to implant to produce hcg to give you that bfp and whats happend is there could of been a problem with the embryo and it cancels itself out and stop growing
this happens to many many woman it has also happend to me before and to so many ladies that still dont even know to this day..

Just to clarify a couple of things in case anyone is worried:

1. A blighted ovum is not the same thing as a chemical pregnancy. Since the fetal pole doesn't come into existence until around 6weeks, technically a blighted ovum cannot be the cause of a pregnancy of less than 6w duration. In fact, the medical definition of a 'blighted ovum' or anembryonic pregnancy used by the NHS is a pregnancy in which the gestational sac is at least 14mm diameter, with no fetal pole and no yolk sac (14mm is the ave for 6w0d). In most anembryonic pregnancies, the gestational sac develops more slowly, so it's not possible to confirm a diagnosis of blighted ovum until later on. My hospital would not do so until 10 weeks after LMP, in case of dating error.

2. The whole point of a "chemical pregnancy" is that it is exactly that - the pregnancy chemicals (HCG) are produced, but there is no other evidence of pregnancy and it ends before a clinical pregnancy can be established. (The very fact that a yolk sac does not usually exist until around 5w and a fetal pole isn't visible until 6w means that many doctors will describe any pregnancy of a duration of <6w as a chemical pregnancy rather than a clinical miscarriage). HCG is produced almost as soon as the embryo starts to implant, but as I said previously, implantation is not a two-minute process. Think of it as a marathon - you can get 3 or 4 miles into a marathon, but then you twist your ankle, you don't finish the race and you don't get your medal. Doesn't mean you didn't start it and didn't do any running at all, though. If someone was measuring you for biochemical signs of exertion, you'd still be producing sweat and have a raised heart rate even at only 3 miles. Similarly, HCG is not produced at the conclusion of the process, but from the beginning.

I've just done a search and nicked the following quotations from an article on implantation and pregnancy:

Generally, implantation lasts for a day or two, says Dr. Anthony Wakim, medical director of the IVF program at Magee Women's Hospital in Pittsburgh, Pa.

Implantation rates vary widely, Dr. Marshall says. "A fertilized egg probably implants only about 50 percent of the time; the rest of the time, they enter the uterus but don't implant at all or implant abnormally and don't continue as healthy pregnancies."

In some cases, implantation can occur yet be incomplete. "Sometimes women will have a biochemical pregnancy, with low levels of the pregnancy hormone B-HG," Dr. Marshall says. "A clinical pregnancy with a sac and a heartbeat is never established. This is likely because the process of implantation did not occur completely."




Of course, it probably doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference emotionally as to whether you lose a pregnancy at 4w2 or 6w2... but the point is that a chemical pregnancy does NOT affect the chances of future pregnancies in the same way that a clinical miscarriage might affect them. So you may be upset and disappointed after a chem, but you don't need to worry, unless it happens frequently (this is rare, but recurrent pregnancy loss <6w may indicate a problem with implantation and would need to be investigated).

I hope that clarification helps, I'd hate for anyone to be sent for an early scan in their 6th week and think they had a blighted ovum just because they didn't see a fetal pole - you can't expect to so early!

 

[Tasha20]

Just wanted to give you this

 

[buddabun]

Thanks Kitty, that's some good info.

I am feeling a lot better with each passing day but I am wary about coming to accept that we might actually get a baby out of this pregnancy in case it just doesn't happen you know? So many people miscarry at 8+ weeks it is terribly sad!

As for the pain, it is in my abdomen - where would you call the place you get period pains? It's low down, where I would imagine my uterus is... It is less so today but still have a sore back.

I'm sorry to keep asking so many questions but does anyone know... they say after a heartbeat is detected your chances of miscarrying reduce. Does anyone know at what age this is and how much the chances drop? Also, what is so special about the 12w point, other than that you are moving to 2nd trimester? Why do so many people wait to this point to tell people about their pregnancy - is there some significant risk reduction at 12w too?

Sorry, I am just paranoid now. Trying to distract myself but I'm not working so it's hard.

Oh and Kittykins we are in Brunei - my husband is military so we're here for the next 2.5yrs (been here 6 months already). I am not allowed to work (visa says so ) so it was kind of the ideal time to start a family. But the problem is the doctors are just so uncaring. The Bruneians pop out babies like it's going out of fashion (6 kids is considered the minimum in 'decent' society!!) and me going in as a 1st time preggo clearly frantic with worry, they just sat me there for 3 hours and did NOTHING! (not even poking head round curtain). 3 hours later (after hubby complained) we were taken in to scanning room - blood all over sheets, no sharps bins/rubber gloves etc etc - and she put the probe up me. She said tot he nurse 'no sac'. I knew nothing about what this meant etc etc and nobody told us. 2 days of going back in and noone saying a word she finally tested for HCG (7.1 like I said). We looked it up and saw that was low so assumed I'd miscarried. We went back int eh next morning and she was going on about being happy with my test results etc etc. At no point did anybody tell us we'd lost the baby so hubby had to ask if I was still pregnant. "oh no of course not!" was the answer.

After being prodded and poked it was just a horrible experience so I am very hesitant to book myself in there again until I am far along enough to have a chance of seeing the fetal pole, IUGS or a heartbeat...

 

[Waiting4amiracle]

A blighted ovum is when there is a sac seen but no fetal pole and what sounds to me is that your first pregnancy emplanted because the embryo has to implant to produce hcg to give you that bfp and whats happend is there could of been a problem with the embryo and it cancels itself out and stop growing
this happens to many many woman it has also happend to me before and to so many ladies that still dont even know to this day..

Just to clarify a couple of things in case anyone is worried:

1. A blighted ovum is not the same thing as a chemical pregnancy. Since the fetal pole doesn't come into existence until around 6weeks, technically a blighted ovum cannot be the cause of a pregnancy of less than 6w duration. In fact, the medical definition of a 'blighted ovum' or anembryonic pregnancy used by the NHS is a pregnancy in which the gestational sac is at least 14mm diameter, with no fetal pole and no yolk sac (14mm is the ave for 6w0d). In most anembryonic pregnancies, the gestational sac develops more slowly, so it's not possible to confirm a diagnosis of blighted ovum until later on. My hospital would not do so until 10 weeks after LMP, in case of dating error.

2. The whole point of a "chemical pregnancy" is that it is exactly that - the pregnancy chemicals (HCG) are produced, but there is no other evidence of pregnancy and it ends before a clinical pregnancy can be established. (The very fact that a yolk sac does not usually exist until around 5w and a fetal pole isn't visible until 6w means that many doctors will describe any pregnancy of a duration of <6w as a chemical pregnancy rather than a clinical miscarriage). HCG is produced almost as soon as the embryo starts to implant, but as I said previously, implantation is not a two-minute process. Think of it as a marathon - you can get 3 or 4 miles into a marathon, but then you twist your ankle, you don't finish the race and you don't get your medal. Doesn't mean you didn't start it and didn't do any running at all, though. If someone was measuring you for biochemical signs of exertion, you'd still be producing sweat and have a raised heart rate even at only 3 miles. Similarly, HCG is not produced at the conclusion of the process, but from the beginning.

I've just done a search and nicked the following quotations from an article on implantation and pregnancy:

Generally, implantation lasts for a day or two, says Dr. Anthony Wakim, medical director of the IVF program at Magee Women's Hospital in Pittsburgh, Pa.

Implantation rates vary widely, Dr. Marshall says. "A fertilized egg probably implants only about 50 percent of the time; the rest of the time, they enter the uterus but don't implant at all or implant abnormally and don't continue as healthy pregnancies."

In some cases, implantation can occur yet be incomplete. "Sometimes women will have a biochemical pregnancy, with low levels of the pregnancy hormone B-HG," Dr. Marshall says. "A clinical pregnancy with a sac and a heartbeat is never established. This is likely because the process of implantation did not occur completely."




Of course, it probably doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference emotionally as to whether you lose a pregnancy at 4w2 or 6w2... but the point is that a chemical pregnancy does NOT affect the chances of future pregnancies in the same way that a clinical miscarriage might affect them. So you may be upset and disappointed after a chem, but you don't need to worry, unless it happens frequently (this is rare, but recurrent pregnancy loss <6w may indicate a problem with implantation and would need to be investigated).

I hope that clarification helps, I'd hate for anyone to be sent for an early scan in their 6th week and think they had a blighted ovum just because they didn't see a fetal pole - you can't expect to so early!

I was not saying that buddabun had a blighted ovum with her last pregnancy
i was explaining some things that go wrong in pregnancy and what they are ..
I said it sounded like in her last pregnancy her egg fertilised of course and implanted to get her hcg positive and then failed to go on ???

I never said anything about me thinking her last pregnancy was a blighted ovum ??
I had a blighted ovum and was told at 6wks 4 days that there was just a sac and no fetal pole and i did have a yolk sac and was told to come back at 7wks and the sac was still growing with yolk sac in but no fetal pole and was told i had a blighted ovum ??

I have lost 8 babies and i have early scans as early as 6wks with all of my pregnancys and a fetal pole can be seen as early as 5wks 4 days with beating heart i went at 5wks 4days with the twins i lost in march
as i was having bad pains and was takin in for very early scan at 5wks 4 days and seen 2 fetal poles with 2 fetal heart beats fracternal twins and the pain i was having was because i was having twins ..

So dont read everything it tells you on the net cause the fetal pole does not always show at 6wks as stated in your post above as i am living proof i seen heart beats and fetal poles at 5wks 4days just needed
to correct that ..

Every one is different hun

 

[Waiting4amiracle]

Thanks Kitty, that's some good info.

I am feeling a lot better with each passing day but I am wary about coming to accept that we might actually get a baby out of this pregnancy in case it just doesn't happen you know? So many people miscarry at 8+ weeks it is terribly sad!

As for the pain, it is in my abdomen - where would you call the place you get period pains? It's low down, where I would imagine my uterus is... It is less so today but still have a sore back.

I'm sorry to keep asking so many questions but does anyone know... they say after a heartbeat is detected your chances of miscarrying reduce. Does anyone know at what age this is and how much the chances drop? Also, what is so special about the 12w point, other than that you are moving to 2nd trimester? Why do so many people wait to this point to tell people about their pregnancy - is there some significant risk reduction at 12w too?

Sorry, I am just paranoid now. Trying to distract myself but I'm not working so it's hard.

Oh and Kittykins we are in Brunei - my husband is military so we're here for the next 2.5yrs (been here 6 months already). I am not allowed to work (visa says so ) so it was kind of the ideal time to start a family. But the problem is the doctors are just so uncaring. The Bruneians pop out babies like it's going out of fashion (6 kids is considered the minimum in 'decent' society!!) and me going in as a 1st time preggo clearly frantic with worry, they just sat me there for 3 hours and did NOTHING! (not even poking head round curtain). 3 hours later (after hubby complained) we were taken in to scanning room - blood all over sheets, no sharps bins/rubber gloves etc etc - and she put the probe up me. She said tot he nurse 'no sac'. I knew nothing about what this meant etc etc and nobody told us. 2 days of going back in and noone saying a word she finally tested for HCG (7.1 like I said). We looked it up and saw that was low so assumed I'd miscarried. We went back int eh next morning and she was going on about being happy with my test results etc etc. At no point did anybody tell us we'd lost the baby so hubby had to ask if I was still pregnant. "oh no of course not!" was the answer.

After being prodded and poked it was just a horrible experience so I am very hesitant to book myself in there again until I am far along enough to have a chance of seeing the fetal pole, IUGS or a heartbeat...

Hun your bound to be like this because of your last pregnancy but remember its a different pregnancy its not the same you will get all types of different pain cause your pregnant and baby has to grow so thesa are all little pains you are getting I had really bad pain on both sides down below and because of my past pregnancy losses i phoned my miscarraige nurse and she told me to come up to the emergancy room and i had scan i was 5wks 4days and was told i was having twins fracternal twins
i seen two fetal poles and two hearbeats flickering away so tiny sadley i lost both babies no heart beat at 10wks scan after seeing heartbeats on quite a few scans after the 5wk 4day scan they said i was 8wks 2 days when babies died by babies measurements .. I never bleed with any of my losses i dont even know it took place .. but i can honestly say The pain you are getting is normal and fine
the only pain you should be ever worried of is a pain that doubles you over where your holding your stomich and you have bright red blood .. you will get all little pains hun at the beginning of pregnancy some being quick sharp pains that last about 2 seconds this is just the pregnancy getting snug should we say
Dont worry hun nothing is wrong and you will see this little baby on scan very soon
Just to say my sister had the same as you with her first ever pregnancy and her 2nd she had a girl her 3rd she had a boy her 4th she had a boy
xxx

 

[Kittykins]

I was not saying that buddabun had a blighted ovum with her last pregnancy

In that case I apologise - I found it difficult to understand exactly what you were saying and I understood your first sentence to imply that there was a connection between "blighted ovum" and buddabun's situation. I'm sorry if you did not mean that connection.

I had a blighted ovum and was told at 6wks 4 days that there was just a sac and no fetal pole and i did have a yolk sac and was told to come back at 7wks and the sac was still growing with yolk sac in but no fetal pole and was told i had a blighted ovum ??

Technically, it's not actually a blighted ovum if a yolk sac develops, since the yolk sac is considered to be part of the embryo (blighted ovum = anembryonic), but a lot of people will call it a blighted ovum if there's no fetal pole, regardless of what else exists. Doctors may call it that because it's so much easier to explain. And to be honest, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference to the woman receiving the diagnosis. But medical research believes there may be different causes for failure to develop at the different stages, since it would appear that there is a higher incidence of recurrence of miscarriages where the yolk sac is present than in true anembyonic pregnancies, suggesting that there may possibly be a chromosomal reason for a yolk sac m/c whilst gestational sac only may be to do with a failure of process rather than material. I.e. if a woman has a m/c with a yolk sac and no fetal pole, it seems the odds are higher that she will have another m/c than if she has a m/c with no yolk sac. The only research I could find on this is at a very early stage, and is speculative. The majority of women who receive a blighted ovum dx go on to have a healthy pregnancy.

i have early scans as early as 6wks with all of my pregnancys and a fetal pole can be seen as early as 5wks 4 days with beating heart i went at 5wks 4days with the twins i lost in march

Yes, a fetal pole can possibly be seen as early as 5w4 based on LMP - the average (mean) is 6w0, as I said (you will also notice that throughout my post I used the words 'usually' and 'around'). Therefore statistically, 50% of women will see a fetal pole 6w0 or earlier by LMP dating. However, 50% of women will not see a fetal pole until 6w0 or later. For every woman who can see a fetal pole at 5w4, there will be another woman whose baby's fetal pole will not be visible until after 6w2. There will be some lucky women who may be able to see fetal poles at 5w0 - and equally, there will be others who won't be able to see anything at all until 7w0. That's how averages work. The point is that 6w0 is 'normal' - that's why sonographers date pregnancies according to pole length, adding 1 day to 6w0 for every 1mm the fetal pole measures. E.g. you may think that you are 5w6 by LMP when you have a scan, but then the sonographer measures a fetal pole at 3mm length, and tells you that you are 6w3. That's how come the dates move at scans. That dating system could not possibly work unless the sonographer works on the basis that the fetal pole is 0mm at 6w, for obvious reasons.

LMP is extremely inaccurate. Less than 50% of women ovulate on day 14 of their cycle - which means that more than 50% are not going to be at the gestational age their LMP suggests. You may have thought that you were 5w4 based on your LMP, but if you ovulated on day 12, you would have actually been 5w6. I usually ovulate around day 20 - say I ovulated on day 21, which would be normal for me, based on my LMP I might think I was 6w0 when in fact based on the ovulation date I'd only be 5w0. Again, that brings in further confusion over the dating scan, and gives another reason why I would definitely not see a fetal pole before 6w0 based on LMP.

So, I reiterate my statement - a woman cannot expect to see a fetal pole before 6w0 of pregnancy. That is not the same thing as saying that she will not see one.

There is a big difference between the heart beat and the fetal pole, btw - the heart beat may be identified even before a fetal cell mass (i.e. the pole) is visible.

So dont read everything it tells you on the net

!!!! I'm getting my information from the various scientific and medical journals that I access at work (I'm a university lecturer). I'd like to think that I didn't spend years getting my doctorate in order to base my comments on Wikipedia and Google! And I'm also a bit offended that you think I've just had a quick peek on the internet, when I have in fact spent hours in the library reading the periodicals. I do check my sources, you know.

Anyway, I think this has gone on long enough. I originally posted because I thought that giving a summary of the various academic articles I had read would be useful, especially since the vast majority of people on here will not have access to those journals and books. I had thought that the knowledge would provide reassurance to the original poster, buddabun. However, now that I find even my research methods and intellectual integrity queried, I'd rather not waste any more of my time.

 

[Kittykins]

Thanks Kitty, that's some good info.

I am feeling a lot better with each passing day but I am wary about coming to accept that we might actually get a baby out of this pregnancy in case it just doesn't happen you know? So many people miscarry at 8+ weeks it is terribly sad!

As for the pain, it is in my abdomen - where would you call the place you get period pains? It's low down, where I would imagine my uterus is... It is less so today but still have a sore back.

I'm sorry to keep asking so many questions but does anyone know... they say after a heartbeat is detected your chances of miscarrying reduce. Does anyone know at what age this is and how much the chances drop? Also, what is so special about the 12w point, other than that you are moving to 2nd trimester? Why do so many people wait to this point to tell people about their pregnancy - is there some significant risk reduction at 12w too?

Sorry, I am just paranoid now. Trying to distract myself but I'm not working so it's hard.

Oh and Kittykins we are in Brunei - my husband is military so we're here for the next 2.5yrs (been here 6 months already). I am not allowed to work (visa says so ) so it was kind of the ideal time to start a family. But the problem is the doctors are just so uncaring. The Bruneians pop out babies like it's going out of fashion (6 kids is considered the minimum in 'decent' society!!) and me going in as a 1st time preggo clearly frantic with worry, they just sat me there for 3 hours and did NOTHING! (not even poking head round curtain). 3 hours later (after hubby complained) we were taken in to scanning room - blood all over sheets, no sharps bins/rubber gloves etc etc - and she put the probe up me. She said tot he nurse 'no sac'. I knew nothing about what this meant etc etc and nobody told us. 2 days of going back in and noone saying a word she finally tested for HCG (7.1 like I said). We looked it up and saw that was low so assumed I'd miscarried. We went back int eh next morning and she was going on about being happy with my test results etc etc. At no point did anybody tell us we'd lost the baby so hubby had to ask if I was still pregnant. "oh no of course not!" was the answer.

After being prodded and poked it was just a horrible experience so I am very hesitant to book myself in there again until I am far along enough to have a chance of seeing the fetal pole, IUGS or a heartbeat...

I'm a little hesitant about replying in case I get shot down again. Once a heartbeat is seen, the risk goes down to 3% (but before I get jumped on and told that someone has experience of miscarrying after the hb has been seen, I'd like to point out that that means that 3 out of 100 pregnancies in which a hb has been seen will miscarry. It doesn't mean it won't happen, it means simply that your chances of it happening are much lower). Likewise, the vast proportion of m/cs happen in the first trimester - I can't remember the exact percentage, but it's around 99%. Therefore after 12 weeks, your chances of m/c drop to less than 1%.

It sounds like you had an absolutely horrendous experience. Do you have to use the same hospital? is there not a medical hospital, or can you go privately? You have all my sympathy

If you want to have a very good chance of seeing the fetal pole, assuming it is a normal pregnancy, then it would be best to wait until 7w0. That's what I'm doing for the early scan. You would have a 50:50 chance of seeing it at 6w0, as I said above, but 50:50 may not be high enough to risk in your situation. At 6w3, you'd have around 80-85% odds of seeing it. At 7w0 it would be above 90%. If your cycles are longer than 28 days, add on the appropriate number of days. E.g. if you have 31 day cycles, you would want to wait 3 days more (clearly the maths here isn't precise - the variation in cycle length has already been built into the average of 6w0 - but if you want to maximise your chances of seeing the fetal pole on your first scan, that's what you should take into account).

HTH!

 

[Waiting4amiracle]

Technically, it's not actually a blighted ovum if a yolk sac develops, since the yolk sac is considered to be part of the embryo (blighted ovum = anembryonic), but a lot of people will call it a blighted ovum if there's no fetal pole, regardless of what else exists. Doctors may call it that because it's so much easier to explain. And to be honest, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference to the woman receiving the diagnosis. But medical research believes there may be different causes for failure to develop at the different stages, since it would appear that there is a higher incidence of recurrence of miscarriages where the yolk sac is present than in true anembyonic pregnancies, suggesting that there may possibly be a chromosomal reason for a yolk sac m/c whilst gestational sac only may be to do with a failure of process rather than material. I.e. if a woman has a m/c with a yolk sac and no fetal pole, it seems the odds are higher that she will have another m/c than if she has a m/c with no yolk sac. The only research I could find on this is at a very early stage, and is speculative. The majority of women who receive a blighted ovum dx go on to have a healthy pregnancy.

Not all people who have a blighted ovum are at higher risk of
having recurrent miscarriages i have had recurrent miscarraiges because i have a blood clotting disorder 2 infact 1 being called lupas and this is why i have recurrent miscarraiges not because i stand a higher chance of having multiple miscarraiges because i have had a blighted ovum in the past I have never been told this by either of the hospitals i am under ..

I dont miscarry although i am classed as a recurrent missed miscarraige patient its called uterine death cause i dont bleed my babys die cause tiny blood clots form in the placenta cutting off oxergen supply to my babys i see my babys on scan with arms legs and see them moving round except the blighted ovum ..

I know ladies that have had 1 blighted ovum and gone on to have children and not had miscarraiges
So your right when you say that but they have had no more miscarraiges they just had 1 blighted ovum maybe this is based on a poll research but not every one is at higher risk i talk to some ladies on facebook that have had 1 blighted ovum its actually common now days so many i talk to have have had them and they have never went on to have a miscarraige afterwards they have children more than 1 child..

Its just not a nice thing really to say when it has been shown its not true not saying your not being nice cause if your getting your information from books as you said then this really is not you that knows for sure that having a blighted ovum will bring you to higher risk of having multiple miscarriages you wont know this till you see it with your own eyes its just research thats what books are hun research that has been done by doctors etc..

But as far as i have heard from other ladies who have had a blighted ovum and not had another loss thank god they have been fine and not been at higher risk for multiple miscarraige what so ever ..

I agree with you saying a blighted ovum is caused by somthing being wrong with it yes i agree
A blighted ovum can be is caused by when all the cells are formed to make the pregnancy and not all develop or you have 1 extra cell or even the shape of the cells can cause a blighted ovum that was what I was told by my doctor but he turned out to be rubbish so i wouldnt listen to anything he said anymore .. but he said that a blighted ovum is not always caused by the womans egg it can also be caused by a bad sperm with a wrong shape head Sorry i had to laugh at that but you must know this ??

The yolk sac is what the babys feed off till you get to 8wks then this shrinks and the baby then lives off you .. they say if there is a yolk sac there should be a fetal pole i agree with you on that one not saying your wrong but i never had a fetal pole but had a yolk sac so what went wrong there then ??
and the yolk sac was lying at the bottom of the sack and not at the top in the corner so whats the cause to this why was it at the bottom and not the top better still why was it there if you said a blighted ovum can not have a yolk sac ??

[/quote]In answer to you saying i must not of been 5wks 4 days when i seen baby My doctor who scanned me that day said going by sac size i was 5wks 4 days pregnant i was brought into the scanning department for a emergancy scan because i had bad pains and i thought i was 6wks and so many days gone other wise they would of never did a scan that early if i had knew i was 5wks and 4days and i seen two little flicking hearts .. so was the miscarraige nurse who is qualified in doing scans and dating scans wrong ??

!!!! I'm getting my information from the various scientific and medical journals that I access at work (I'm a university lecturer). I'd like to think that I didn't spend years getting my doctorate in order to base my comments on Wikipedia and Google! And I'm also a bit offended that you think I've just had a quick peek on the internet, when I have in fact spent hours in the library reading the periodicals. I do check my sources, you know.

Anyway, I think this has gone on long enough. I originally posted because I thought that giving a summary of the various academic articles I had read would be useful, especially since the vast majority of people on here will not have access to those journals and books. I had thought that the knowledge would provide reassurance to the original poster, buddabun. However, now that I find even my research methods and intellectual integrity queried, I'd rather not waste any more of my time

.


I was not judging you your jumping the gun please dont be rude i can take that post above offensive by
the tone of your voice in your message and you saying you would rather not waste your time and that i am shooting you down i can have my opinion dont get hot headed you cant be always right am not a nasty person i just want to explain what i have been told and what i have experienced am sorry if you feel that i have shot you down after all i was only replying to quotes that you left from one of my messages explaining to you that i was not saying to buddabun she had a blighted ovum

you said you did not understand my post .. Somtimes its best to read the post twice if it does not make sence to you cause they can be read wrong and thats how silly arguments posts like this start..

I did not mean to shock you but most people do that much research on the net you can never find a site that says the same thing they all have different veiws on things .

You may be a (I'm a university lecturer )but no offence my gyno who has been a gyno for over 20 yrs couldn not even find i had 2 blood clotting disorders and told me my losses was unexplained and nothing was wrong with me it was all in my head he read his books to get where he is now and look what they taught him so not every one who has studied for yrs and yrs and read all thesa books are fantastic brain boxes at knowing everything about pregnancy they get thesa jobs and dont have any explanation half of them for thesa poor ladies like myself who go on to lose many babies ...

Its been 12 yrs and 8 sad losses to get no feedback to why i lost my babies i was told nothing is wrong with you and its unexplained from a professional gyno who has done all his study like your self ... and is known as one of the best gyno in england who is actually named (Dr Farqhuison) from the (liverpool womans hospital)

He knew nothing .. i moved to another hospital seen another doctor had 1 batch of bloods taken in september and told on the 4th november i had 2 blood clotting disorders so not every doctor is good he read is books and he couldnt tell me what was wrong ..

I am not being rude i just feel as if you have come back guns blazing and i apologise if i am sounding like this to you but am really just trying to explain

I apoligise to buddabun for thesa messages on her post poor girl only asked a question and got a 3rd degree in her post (SORRY HUN )

I was just stating a fact what i had been through kitty and what my nurse/gyno told me so who is wrong you or Them and this is what i mean when i say people are told different things
( infact dont answer that lets forget about please am on icsi drugs and i dont want to get into trouble
it will be my hormones speaking for me ??)