Question about nursing homes

[Urchin]

Hello

My mom is trying to help get her neighbour into an old people's home as she had a bad fall, broke her leg and doesn't feel confident enough to move back home.

She's been looking around at a few places but as it's the weekend there's no one to really answer her questions.

He main question is she's looked at different places and some are "nursing" homes and some are "care" homes...what's the difference? I've googled but it didn't really help.

I was hoping someone here might work with old people and know if there's a difference or not.

Cheers.

 

[Flame]

http://www.islington.gov.uk/Health/Serv ... _homes.asp

Does this help?

 

[Urchin]

Oh it does yeah, thanks...still unsure if she'd be OK in a care home or not...she doesn't need any kind of medical care and is getting more confident on her zimmer frame. I wonder if doctors decide or are there certain critera

 

[Sherlock]

Well over the years the difference has become not so noticeable. Nowdays, most elderly people who unless they require nursing care, ie unable to assit themselves in most ways, toileting, eating, turning in bed etc are instead classed for residential care homes.

The criteria is variable, but basically people who are at least semi able bodied, either with a frame, wheelchair, walking stick or unaided usually find themselves in care homes.

However, you will find a broad spectrum of people in care homes. Some are almost nursing care, but borderline. You will find that there are possibly people with forms of dementia, unable to toilet themselves, occasionally feed themselves properly and varying other possibles.

However, often elderly people who are discharged from hostpital find themselves needing some level of care, but unless you mothers friend is totally unable to do anything for herself, I'd suggest she look to a care home not a nursing home. If she needs assitance with personal care, toileting and moving around but is improving, a care home would be best for her. Care homes provide all the correct care, use hoists and so on, and I think if your mums friend has been mobile until her fall, being amongst others who are mobile and so on is better for her.

Nursing care imo is a last resort after trying a care home.

 

[Urchin]

Thanks sherlock thats really helpful I will pass the info on to my mom.

 

[Sherlock]

Oh it does yeah, thanks...still unsure if she'd be OK in a care home or not...she doesn't need any kind of medical care and is getting more confident on her zimmer frame. I wonder if doctors decide or are there certain critera

If she is mobile and not needing personal care then a care home is what she needs. Nursing homes are really that these days. Nursing care, often in bed, full personal care, toileting, bathing, medical treatment. It doesn't sound to me that your Mum's friend is anywhere near this.

A care home is the step back into the community so to speak. A nursing home is a step away from it in the other direction.

Btw fwiw my mother used to own a care home and run a nursing home. I've worked in them on and off over the years most recently in 2006 so am familiar with the requirements needed to assess.

You can contact care homes who will be happy to send someone along to assess your Mum's friend and see if all is ok to take her. I'd also go check out the homes themselves and take the tour. Every place is different and run to differing standards.

 

[Urchin]

Cheers, I didn't realise they might come and have a look at her.

I love that no matter what the subject someone always knows their stuff on this forum

 

[Lou]

what about sheltered housing? Its just like having their own place but you have a warden and usually a community room I think.

Lou

 

[Urchin]

They thought about that but she does need a bit more care than that I think, she's partially sighted and needs someone to cook for her etc.

 

[emma28]

I would say that a care home provides all aspects of care. So that if you go in and deteriorate, then you are not asked to leave to find nursing care elsewhere.

Nusing homes provide only nursing care....so you go in needing all help.

Residential homes (where I work) is providing basic care ie serving meals and generally just being there for people. We take lots of respite residents exactley like your moms neighbour, and help them regain their independance....then if they decide to stay, they can. Unfortunaly good homes tend to have long waiting lists, and the only reason people leave is when they need more care and have to move to nursing homes. So it takes along time.

Does she not have a care manager? this is who should be able to help you the most, and know of the correct home for her needs.

Respite is a great idea. Lots of places let you go for meals, then overnight visits, weekends before you commit yourself to moving in permantley.

 

[Urchin]

Hi Emma

She has a social worker, but generally people are being a bit crap
The first my mom's neighbour knew of the care home thing was when a doctor asked her today if she had sorted out somewhere to go yet Basically "get lost!"
The social worker knows my mom goes almost every day at 2pm, today she said she was going to meet my mom and edna and have a chat about things, but she didn't show up. My mom bumped into her in the car park and suggested that the SW might go and have a chat to Edna about what she wants to do, when my mom checked later she hadn't talked to her. It's hard cos we're not family, although we've known her for 25 years and she always came round for Sunday dinner and stuff so it feel like she is...now suddenly something needs to be organised and it's just been left to my mom to sort it out, although she has no access to money or anything.

 

[tots hope]

I know for a fact that care homes are realy expensive so it might be cheaper in the long run if your friend had a 24 hour carer. That way she gets to stay in her own home, isn't restricted in what she can and cant do and it might also save her loads of money. If she is able to get help from the government they are more likely to want her to stay in her own home rather than place her in a home.

Might be worth looking at a private carer for her? Just a thought

 

[Urchin]

What someone who lives there?
Do people do that? That sounds expensive too...the homes we're looking at are between 500-800 quid a month, she owns her own house and has some money in the bank though. She's not entitled to anything cos she has money.

 

[lozzi]

What someone who lives there?
Do people do that? That sounds expensive too...the homes we're looking at are between 500-800 quid a month, she owns her own house and has some money in the bank though. She's not entitled to anything cos she has money.

On a differnet note...

Dont you think its TOTALLY wrong, that just because someone has worked all there life, and has a lil bit of money in the bank, that they shud be screwed for money in a care home

 

[lozzi]

What someone who lives there?
Do people do that? That sounds expensive too...the homes we're looking at are between 500-800 quid a month, she owns her own house and has some money in the bank though. She's not entitled to anything cos she has money.

Is it just meals that she needs? or like personal care?


You can get a home carer, i used to be a secretary for a firm, dont quote me buti think it was 12-15 per hour.


They can come in as little or as much as is needed.


We used to have people who would have half hour in the morning hour and lunch and same at tea....


Its an option if she doesnt need 24 7 care...

 

[Urchin]

What someone who lives there?
Do people do that? That sounds expensive too...the homes we're looking at are between 500-800 quid a month, she owns her own house and has some money in the bank though. She's not entitled to anything cos she has money.

On a differnet note...

Dont you think its TOTALLY wrong, that just because someone has worked all there life, and has a lil bit of money in the bank, that they shud be screwed for money in a care home

I do believe they should pay something, but I am staggered at how much it costs, the average is about 700 a week, there's one near me thats 1600!!...even if you own your own home, and sell it to cover costs, you could live in a home for years, it wouldn't take long to get through all that money.

BTW lozzi I posted your fingerprint kit today (save me writing a pm LOL)

 

[lozzi]

What someone who lives there?
Do people do that? That sounds expensive too...the homes we're looking at are between 500-800 quid a month, she owns her own house and has some money in the bank though. She's not entitled to anything cos she has money.

On a differnet note...

Dont you think its TOTALLY wrong, that just because someone has worked all there life, and has a lil bit of money in the bank, that they shud be screwed for money in a care home

I do believe they should pay something, but I am staggered at how much it costs, the average is about 700 a week, there's one near me thats 1600!!...even if you own your own home, you could live in a home for years!

BTW lozzi I posted your fingerprint kit today (save me writing a pm LOL)

lol fankooo i'll get it back to you asap

 

[Kelly G]

My sister works for a company called abbey home care and she goes into peoples houses (not just the elderly) and helps out!

For some of her clients she goes in, in the morning at dinner and at tea (depending on how much care they need), and she does anything from cooking and cleaning to getting them up in the mornig or putting them to bed at night, heping them to get washed and dressed, she also goes into some clients who are forgetful just to give medication or to help them take some medication!

Like Lozzi says they can go in as much or as little as they need depending on their needs!

 

[X5OT]

Hi Urchin

I work as a Community Occupational Therapist. In simple terms, that means that I try to keep people living in their own homes as safely and as independently for as long as possible. Unless your mum's friend is absolutely sure she wants to move into residential care, there are other options to consider. A few things I would bear in mind:

1. Was she managing well at home prior to her fall in terms of mobility? If so, then I would suggest a referral to a community physiotherapist (usually through your local social services office). This may help her to re-gain her confidence following her fall.

2. Is she considering moving into residential care on a permanent basis, or just as a respite period until she feels ready to return to her own home? If it is just a temporary measure, she may well be better staying in her own home, having some physio, and getting some home care in to help with washing, dressing, meals etc. Again, her local social services office should be able to provide a list of home care agencies, even if she is self-funding.

3. Would any equipment at home aid her to remain at home more independently? Raised toilet seats, bath aids, chair / bed raisers, stairlift, etc etc? Might be worth a referral to the community Occupational Therapist (or 'OT') to request a home assessment.

4. Did she have a stay in hospital following her fall and if so, how long ago was this? Hospitals have a duty of care to arrange what is commonly referred to as a 'safe discharge'. If they felt that it was not safe for your mum's friend to be dishcarged home, they should have assisted in setting up a temporary residential placement / some time in a community hospital for rehab prior to her discharge. It may be worth getting her GP involved - he may be able to arrange an admission to somewhere for some rehab.

On a final note, I feel really strongly that people should not feel that they need to leave their homes and move into residential care without having explored all the other options open to them (rehab / home care visits / equipment at home). I often find that people don't even realise that these options are available to them There may be a waiting list for community OT and physio, but cases are (usually) seen on a priority basis, so if she is at risk of further falls or injury, she should be higher priority than, say, someone whose only difficulty is getting in and out of the bath. There should be no charge for OT or physio, or for the equipment provided by them, regardless of her financial circumstances (apart from big things like stairlifts, and there are means-tested grants for those).

I hope all that helps - I will get off my soap box now!! I just hate seeing people end up in residential care unless they have made a totally informed decision about it themselves (ie knowing all the other options available to them first). Deciding to leave your home is such a huge decision to make, and sometimes not one which can be reversed.

Hope it all works out for her

 

[Urchin]

Thanks for your replies everyone.

She did have a carer who used to come in a few times a week I think. I'm not sure how she would feel spending loads of money converting the house if she decided after that moving home isn't for her.

The hospital mentioned sending her home a couple of weeks ago and she was too frightened to even consider it. I'm not sure how she would feel about doing that again unless the carer was more or less full time.

She actually broke her leg in the hospital! Her knees seized up at home which made her be admitted (she was stuck in a standing position and had to press her emergency alarm)
When she tried to swivel in the bed the next day in hospital she broke her thigh bone and has had to have surgery.

I think for the moment she is just looking for a bit of respite, then see how she feels in a couple of months, like after Christmas she may move back home... they are not considering selling her house or anything yet, my mom is just looking at options.
I will mention a full time carer and see how they feel about that, but I think she needs more of a rest and relax period to try and sort herself out a bit.

Thanks again everyone you've been a lot more helpful than the social workers etc so far!