Mission : cease nightly feedings, increase daytime solids

[Xena]

Right, basically, as a lot of you know, Alex doesn't eat much in the way of solids. He's breast obsessed and that's it.
At his last weigh in last week, turns out he's 19lbs 1oz.

That's not a lot for a 1 year old, but it's even worse that he was a big boy at birth. He was 10lbs 1oz, so 98th percentile.
After that he dropped a little, but was steadily following the 91st percentile curve.
....UNTIL he reached 'solid' age. By 7 months old he was eating so little solids that he dropped to 25th percentile, and that was worrying, but now, at 19lbs 1oz, he is only in the 9th percentile.

HV reckons it's because he co-sleeps and breast-feeds all night, which means that he has not enough appetite to eat solids during the day. The breastmilk is great, sure, but it's not giving him the calories he needs.

So now, I'm on a mission to curb the nightly feeds. He does it mainly for comfort I think.

Anyway, we've shipped Lydia off to MIL's house for 2 nights, and we commenced the night-time-weaning last night. I'm going to keep a sort of diary of how it goes. You never know, somebody might find it useful!

So without further ado:

Captain's Log, Post-Night 1:

ok, whew, that was really tough.

He had his 'last' breastfeed on my knee at around 1.30am and he fell asleep.

At 3.30am I took him upstairs to bed and put him in his cot with his dummy.

At 5am he woke up crying and fussing. At this point I would usually have brought him into bed with me and got a boob out for him, but instead I picked him up and gave him his dummy, and sat on the edge of the bed rocking him. Ooooh boy he was not happy. He screamed for half an hour, he was tugging on my bra and everything.

At 5.30am I decided to lay him down in bed with me and just cuddle him, so I did. He fought me for about 20 minutes more - smacking me, kicking me in the head, screaming.

Anyway, at some point after that we must have both fallen asleep, because I woke up again when he started crying about 15 minutes later.

From then on, it was a case of him crying for 5 minutes or so, then falling asleep, then waking up about 15 minutes after that to cry for 5 minutes, then falling asleep again for 15 minutes
(roughly anyway)
right up until 12pm when my alarm woke me up anyway.

Sooooooo needless to say:

I'M BLOODY KNACKERED.

Now we're both up but my breasts are painful as hell from being so full, and to add insult to injury I'm trying to give Alex some breakfast, but he's not eating any more than usual because he's too tired!

Maybe he'll fall asleep in the car on the way to take Phil to work, and perhaps he'll feel more like eating later.

God I hope tonight is less stressful than last night was.


(By the way in case anybody is wondering, Phil works 2pm till 10pm, which means the kids usually get to sleep somewhere between 11.30pm and 2am, and wake up between 11am-12.30pm. Phil and I usually get to bed around 3am ish.)

update:

This is not going at all well. It's past 4pm and so far I've only persuaded him to eat half a jar of stage 2 fruit yoghurt, plus the TINIEST amount of sliced beef with cheese you could imagine. Literally a thimbleful.
He's also had about 1oz expressed breastmilk.

He just won't stop screaming. He's exhausted but he won't go down for a nap. He's just crying his heart out

I'm going to take him out for a walk in the pram to see if it calms him down.

 

[SarahH]

Awwww... I cant give you any advice but thought I would give you some hugs

 

[flowergirl]

I think you are being really brave- it it going to get worse before it gets better but you should start to see an improvement wihin a few days. Make sure you talk to him about what you are doing and even if he only takes a tiny amount of food, don't stress, go wild!!! Tell him how brilliant he his and put all the reward onto eating. Give him loads of cuddles and kisses and lots of eye contact with smiles. When you breastfeed him keep interaction to a minimum and put him straight into his cot afterwards (or where is appropriate) make this less of a rewarding activity if you can. Hard I know as you have to cuddle him to feed him! *hopefully* this will allow him to associate eating with reward and will naturally encourage him to reduce the milk he takes. Good luck xxx

 

[Xena]

Oh meh, I'm all over the place here, I don't know what I'm bloody doing

We went for a walk and he calmed down, but then when we got back I made him a boiled egg and he flat out refused to eat it. I finally managed to distract him with a tube of toothpaste long enough to get him to eat just under half the egg, and then he started screaming again and wouldn't eat any more.

Phil wants me to completely stop breastfeeding cold-turkey. He thinks he's too old for it now and ought to be on cows milk. I really don't think I'm ready for that though, and Alex certainly isn't!

Anyway after the egg scenario I've given in. It's his nap time now and I always nurse him off to sleep. Phil had given me strict instructions to not breastfeed him at all today, but it's all very well and good for him to say that - he's at work - he's not here having to deal with a very upset confused Alex, who is wondering why I've suddenly stopped nursing him!

Anyway I've given in - I've just nursed him off to sleep. Poor lamb I felt so sorry for him

I LIKE nursing him. I know for his own sake he has to eat more solids, and I'm fine with not nursing him MUCH (during the night for example), but I want to carry on nursing him twice (just before his nap, and last thing at night before bed). Phil isn't going to be happy about that though. He keeps going on and on about "when you get back to uni (next month) you won't be able to breastfeed him then. We can't leave him with a babysitter if he's breastfeeding to be able to go out anywhere." yadda yadda.

Anyway last night just broke my heart. I've decided I'm going to take it more slowly. I've just emailed Phil to tell him I'm going to cut down feeds rather than quit cold turkey, and asked him to be supportive. He'll probably tell me I'm being weak or something.
He's very supportive of breastfeeding up to 1 year, but he's firmly of the opinion that at 12 months it should stop. *sigh*

 

[keli]

good luck, i hope it gets easier for you both xx

 

[fothers]

I think it is a more sensible idea for you and him to cut down gradually- much less stress all round

Maisie was 91st percentile at birth and is now below 25th but not quite the 9th yet and I was really worried but neither OH or I are hugely tall and both quite slim built so I think she is just meant to be daintier. She isn't skinny and eats well now. I did a lot of research into it and the amount of calories per volume breast milk compared to all other food stuffs (except things like double cream and advocado) is so much more. He must be getting a lot of calories from the milk and even if he started taking a lot more food it would fill him up bulk wise but not necessarily calorie wise.

Is he really really thin or not? Most of the research I did suggested that if they are meeting all their developmental milestones then it is probably just that genetically they are programmed to be that sort of weight.



Not sure if these links will help-

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solid ... foods.html
http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solid ... s-how.html

 

[Xena]

well he doesn't necessarily look really skinny - you would never look at him and think he was necessarily underweight. I'd say he looks lean, but his legs are pretty chunky.

but DH and I are not slim (I'm 12 stone 2 and 5'4", and DH is 28 stone and 5'10")

Lydia is fairly tall for her age, and very average weight. Not fat and not thin, just normal.
Alex looks slimmer than she did when she was his age though.

So goodness knows

 

[maybebaby]

Oh hun I really feel for you I agree that it'll be easier on you and Alex if you just cut down rather than stop breastfeeding completely. Maybe cut it down to the nap time and bedtime feeds? Also at night try offering water instead of boob, eventually he'll get the message that boob isn't on offer at night.

I stopped Austin's night feeds when he was 9 months & just offered water instead - we had a horrible 3 or 4 nights but then he just accepted he got water, He still woke up but took his water without crying.

During the day don't expect a miracle with regards to his eating. It may be a week or two before he gets hungry enough to significantly increase his appetite for solids - again you may get screaming but hopefully it will only take a few days for him to get the message that mummy chooses when he gets boob, not him.

Keep at it, it will get better but be prepared for a struggle for a couple of days/nights. Don't give in and he'll soon learn the new rules & accept it

Does he feed himself at all? Maybe try giving him a spoon as well when you're feeding him, or a piece of toast?

Just wanted to add that Austin was born on 75th centile but soon dropped to 25th & went up & down on that line for most of his first year. He still looks skinny (you can see his ribs) but he's perfectly happy & healthy, just slim!

 

[valentine]

Aw Xena, I am following your story - good luck!

Make sure you do whats right for you and Alex - its all very well for Phil to give his opinion, but there's no reason why you can't go to uni if you're only feeding twice a day - I thought it was just the night feeds he had a problem with due to the co-sleeping? He's definitely not too old to breastfeed. Its much more sensible to cut down gradually, for you and fairer for Alex, surely?

I am thinking of you - you're doing a brilliant job!

Valentine Xxx

 

[KJ]

Hi Xena,

I really feel for you. Sounds like you're having a tough time of it.

As Valentine says, there's no reason why you can't feed Alex morning and evening when you go back to uni. I did this with Asher when I went to work and he had a bottle during the day.

I def think you should try to cut out the night time breast feeds. But daytime is not so bad.

What other food have you tried?

Alex sounds a bit like Asher was, in that he likes his sweet food. Prob due to breastfeeding a lot, as breast milk is also quite sweet.

I found that if I make a savory meal up and put a little fruit in it Asher took to it much easier. Also, since Alex hasn't had much solids, he might not be ready for lumpy, chunky food. Maybe try pureeing some stuff and then gradually introduce lumps? At least that way he's getting some food.

Asher's favorite recipe that's guaranteed to get him eating is...
Chicken with carrots and apple
Chop up half an onion and soften it with some oil in a pan.
Chop up 2 carrots and put them in with the onion and pour over 250ml of water.
Add one dried bay leaf.
Leave to simmer for 10-15mins (with lid on).
Chop up one sweet eating apple and one chicken breast.
Add these to the pan.
Simmer for a further 10-15mins until chicken is cooked.
Remove bay leaf and process as required (either puree, process or mash).

He loves this and the sweetness of the apple gives it a really nice flavour.

Just thought I'd share as it's been so successful for me.

K.xx

 

[maybebaby]

How was last night Nat? Have been thinking of you this morning

 

[Xena]

ok, last night was sooo not fun.

1.15am - I nursed him hopin he would get sleepy and drop off. He didn't.
2.15am - I nursed him. He dropped off.
2.30am - I put him down in his cot. He woke up. I nursed him. He dropped off.
2.45am - I put him down in his cot. He woke up. I nursed him. He dropped off.
3am - I put him down in his cot. I got in my bed and fell asleep.
6.55am - He woke up crying. I nursed him.He dropped off.
7.15am - I put him down in his cot. I got in my bed and fell asleep.
7.55am - He woke up crying. I nursed him. He dropped off.
8.15am - I put him down in his cot.
8.25am - He woke up crying. I nursed him. He dropped off.
8.40am - I put him down in his cot.
8.45am - Phil went to the loo and woke him as he walked past our door (I'm sleeping in Alex's room). He started crying. I nursed him. He dropped off.
9am - I put him down in his cot.
9.15am - He woke up crying. I nursed him. He dropped off.
9.30am - I put him down in his cot. I got in my bed and fell asleep.
10.45am - He woke up crying. I this point I though 'sod this' and brought him in bed with me. We both fell asleep.
12pm - The alarm went off. We both slept through it.
12.15pm - We both woke up. Both knackered.

Frankly that's ridiculous. He's worse than a newborn

 

[Redshoes]

Xena I wanted to pass on lots of HUGE hugs
I know what its like saying no to Isaac for something, so Lord knows how hard it must be going through the retaliation from Alex for not giving boob, you are being so strong to be still wanting to go ahead and increase his solids, I am so willing you both to be able to make the changes slowly and soon

I do think cold turkey would be too much, they have such a personality at 1yr and it would be quite emotional, as you've already described so vividly, can you try to lessen the BF's, keep the morning and night, 1st and last, for now, and save your energy for through the day to increase those solids, as being tired as well as going through all that will not be helping either of you, bless you both

Have you found any support and useful advice from any HV or GP with regards to making these feeding changes? You really need some support right now, and your OH may have his opinion but its you going through it so tell him whether he agrees or not you need him for support And food wise, try anything you can with Alex and always have some of what he will eat in the house, available at all times, with some water.

I've no idea what I'm talking about here but just really, really feel for you both, it must be so difficult and I really just hope it all comes good real soon Very very best wishes

 

[Xena]

aww thanks hun


Okay, here's the plan for tonight.

Once he drops off on my knee feeding, I'm going to put him down in his cot as usual.

Then when he wakes for his first feed, I'm going to bring him in bed and feed him lying down, so he snuggles up to me. I'll wait till he drops off and then cover my breast up so he can't get to it.

The next time he wakes up for a feed, I'm going to just give him his dummy and cuddle him. He'll already be next to me in bed, so he might not take it so harshly as he would do if he was waking from his cot.
He'll probably still scream though (poor Lydia - she's back home now - she'll just have to put up with it!)

So I'll ride that one out until he drops off.

Then the next time he wakes for a feed, I'll just keep my breast out so it's back to normal for him.

So basically I'm going to try and drop just one feed for the time being. See how that goes.

It's going to be too awkward I think to try and cut out the co-sleeping as well. Well, it COULD be done, but I'm going to end up like a zombie from lack of sleep. So one thing at a time.

Phew, this is an ordeal. Wish me luck (again!)

 

[Geordie&Bairn]

Good luck
It must be so hard to do this your doing to well 8) stay strong your doing the right thing going slowly

 

[Jade&Evie]

Hope last night wasn't too awful xx

 

[Xena]

Well it's official. I'm a failure.

I had such good intentions for last night. Got him down to sleep in his cot. Then as expected he woke up a couple of hours later. I brought him into bed with me.
I tried to stay awake so that I could then cover myself up when he's finished eating (and then I could skip the next feed).....

but I FELL ASLEEP

So he had a free buffet all night again.

I'm never going to be able to crack this at that rate!

I've asked DH if he's going to help me with this, and he's flatly refused.

 

[keli]

Todays a new day! He's done this for so long (feeding when wants) its going to be hard. I think your doing really well and your def not a failure! How's his solids coming on thro the day? xx

 

[Bloom]

Hang on in there if you look on the bright side you had a good nights sleep so your ready for the battle tonight.

Good Luck

 

[monster_munch]

at your DH, he can obviously see how difficult it is for you and is being a typical lazy arsed man - it looks like too much hard work to help you what a knob frankly.

Secondly, I've been reading and re reading trying desperately to come up with some advice, all I could thik of was to express and he has milk but in a cup, but then that doesn't take into account the comfort issue (although may be worth a try if nothing else works down the line) - plus, if it were me in your situation, I can get nothing but a few drops when I express so that would be pretty darn useless

Also you are NOT a failure - Alex is not going to starve, he is getting plenty of nutrients from you. This is going to be a very gradual process. Personally I would work only on the day time for now and leave your night time routine as normal as you can. IMO I think he is getting more clingy at night as he knows something is changing and he doesn't want it to

First time I read through it, my first instinct was that if I were in your position I would have nursed him too, so you are not weak (well if you are I am too )

HUGE HUGE hugs, you are doing fab It will just take time unfortunately


Oh and here is a great big kick up the arse for your DH, I don't live too far from you so tell him I will come and deliver it personally if he doesn't get a grip