Lol, BNP list leaked online
- Thread starter zebrastripes
- Start date
It makes the people who dont this even worse.
how is that sort behaviour right?! at least noone was hurt...
it reminds me of my uncle (SDLP politician in NI at the time) - a bomb was placed under what was thought to be his car. it turned out to be his next door neighbour's car. thankfully noone was injured/killed in that instance either.
its all so futile.
nori said:
no, I feel we actually have a duty as human beings to look after vulnerable people. And we can comfortably afford to do this as we only take in a small number compared to other countries. And this only letting people in who can contribute to society - what about those "Britains" that don't contribute to our society? What should we do with these?
And immigrants can't offer anything until they become refugees or migrants and are allowed to work, get housing, pay taxes etc. Perhaps if our country had a quicker and more fair set of procedures in place we wouldn't have the backlog we have and then more migrants can contribute to this society like the majority want to.
Urchin said:
its bound to happen tho isnt it, you join a party thats spouts hatred and racism . . .Redwatch springs to mind...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redwatch
beanie said:
The Britains that dont contribute to society should get a firm kick up the arse and if they dont sort their act out then benefits are taken away from them. END of. i have no sympathy for lazy arse british spongers.
Im confused though at your comment that britain can comfortably afford to support them? The country is in an economic mess! Do we really take less immigrants than other countries based on the size of our country? Thats surprised me!
Im going to be a bit lazy and not read through the previous pages, so sorry if im repeating some of what has been said / asked...
i don't know enough about the BNP to be able to comment on the individuals really, all i know is the stereotypical view society has of them. But regardless of what they believe, if someone believes it enough to put their name down on the 'list' then they should be proud of what they believe (can i say believe again!!).
I do worry about them though. not everyone is as extreme as some of the stories i have heard - just because they can have 'extreme' views, there are people who have just as extreme views about them and could act on people that are otherwise 'innocent' (wrong word, but i can't grasp the right one at the moment).
Also, if it was me, and i had put my name down thinking it was in confidence i would be upset that it had been leaked, regardless on what it was for! i guess it depends on how they collect this info, but if its held it needs to be safe and secure.
Just out of interest, why would they need a list if half the people didn't want the info to be public knowledge?
am i just missing something that is stupidly obvious - ive thought of just knowing numbers of people....
as for immigration and housing. my only experience is my aunt and her family.They lived in a tiny 2 bed house for 5 years waiting for a council place, my uncle is registered disabled, they had two kids under 8 my nan and grandad are getting on in years. They watched houses sit empty. As soon as my aunt told the council about one across my from my nans sitting empty, they moved a single middle aged immigrant in to the 3 bed house and he brought all kinds of trouble with him... I find it hard to believe from the car he drove and the stuff and clothes he had that he was as 'needy' as my aunt was at the time. He wasn't in the house for long (a year maybe) then he just seemed to vanish and a family moved in.
i understand that this is not the whole countrywide picture. i do think its great we can help others that are in need, but i can't help but base my views on any experiences i have had of the system.
i don't know enough about the BNP to be able to comment on the individuals really, all i know is the stereotypical view society has of them. But regardless of what they believe, if someone believes it enough to put their name down on the 'list' then they should be proud of what they believe (can i say believe again!!).
I do worry about them though. not everyone is as extreme as some of the stories i have heard - just because they can have 'extreme' views, there are people who have just as extreme views about them and could act on people that are otherwise 'innocent' (wrong word, but i can't grasp the right one at the moment).
Also, if it was me, and i had put my name down thinking it was in confidence i would be upset that it had been leaked, regardless on what it was for! i guess it depends on how they collect this info, but if its held it needs to be safe and secure.
Just out of interest, why would they need a list if half the people didn't want the info to be public knowledge?
am i just missing something that is stupidly obvious - ive thought of just knowing numbers of people....as for immigration and housing. my only experience is my aunt and her family.They lived in a tiny 2 bed house for 5 years waiting for a council place, my uncle is registered disabled, they had two kids under 8 my nan and grandad are getting on in years. They watched houses sit empty. As soon as my aunt told the council about one across my from my nans sitting empty, they moved a single middle aged immigrant in to the 3 bed house and he brought all kinds of trouble with him... I find it hard to believe from the car he drove and the stuff and clothes he had that he was as 'needy' as my aunt was at the time. He wasn't in the house for long (a year maybe) then he just seemed to vanish and a family moved in.
i understand that this is not the whole countrywide picture. i do think its great we can help others that are in need, but i can't help but base my views on any experiences i have had of the system.
nori said:
we could if the government was better run.
The trouble with such statements as all Britains that don't contribute should get a kick up the arse is that you are then forgetting that the group also includes people like the elderly, disabled, people who want to work but find it hard to hget work due to location, background etc. I know you will probably reply and say that you didn'tmean them (just the benfit scroungers) but you said those that can't contribute to society. Migrants are the same, some are able to work, some aren't for various reasons.
beanie said:
Oh god, obviously i didnt mean the elderly, disabled etc.. i didnt think i had to make that clear as i dont think anyone would class them as "lazy" christ ive got good friends that have deliberating illnesses that are finding it hard to get the help they need so thats the last thing i would say.
I'm still interested to know how many immigrants we take in comparison to other countries of the same size and population.
Claire x
Hi everyone. I was afraid to look in here after my huge rant and rave because knowing me, I would have written 10 pages on my own. Everything that I could have said was said by Beanie. Yes, the UK takes a much lower per capita proportion than many countries, and it is the BNP and less extreme politicians, newspapers that make people think otherwise. Immigration is good for the economy, for the reasons Beanie said. I could go and repeat everything, but there is no point because those are the facts.
I lived in Edinburgh on two council estates. We had very few immigrants around, even though we are the capital city. I could have counted the number of families I saw on one hand. Also, there were HUNDREDS of empty flats, yet we still have homeless people. That is for a number of reasons, including
-Not all people you see on the street are actually homeless. Some pack up their gear and go home when they are finished busking, begging, etc.
-Not all homeless people are willing to apply for housing, whether this is because they are mentally ill, don't know how, or because they are just plain eccentric and don't feel the need for a home. No matter how misguided they are, there are people who genuinely believe there lives are better "outside of the system."
-Even the councils can evict people, and then they have no where to go.
I didn't see a shortage of housing in Edinburgh even though people went on and on about it. I saw a lack of tenants and I blame the council for this. I also agree completely that a lot of it is down to the right to buy laws. I see where these benefit people, like when they are still living in a feudal system of a laird ruling over the town, but not for social housing.
As for immigrants being willing to work for lower wages and in poorer conditions. Well, to some, poor conditions mean having to work over 37 hours of the week, with less than six weeks of holiday per year (I started on that in the NHS), which to the majority of the world is normal. For anyone other than that, it is more a fault of the employers and the regulatory agencies. The UK have strict laws on pay and working conditions and either some employers aren't following them properly by offering immigrants lower wages and poorer conditions, or the minimum wage isn't high enough. I think both of those are the case.
I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion and their own beliefs, but I also believe that you have to own your beliefs and realise that there will be consequences. In the US there is the KKK. They are disgusting. Would you want them teaching your children? Would you want a neo-Nazi teaching them? The BNP's main beliefs, posted somewhere in the first six pages, are the same as any neo-Nazi. They are white supremacists. Sure, I agree that we need less crime and better education, but the methods they propose are extreme, racist, xenephobic, sexist... basically every negative, hateful adjective you can think of. All political parties want less crime, better education, etc., but the BNP want to do that by creating a fascist government.
I think people are getting mixed up between economic migrants and asylum seekers, etc. In order to be allowed to move here permanently, I had to have my rich grandmother sponsor me and sign a letter saying she would provide me with money if I ever need it, so as to prevent me from trying to claim benefits. This was when I was already married to a British person. Now that I have passed the first stages and am a legal resident with an indefinite stay and eligibility for citizenship, I am allowed to apply for benefits (but the only thing I get is MA, before you ask). Previous to that I paid inflated taxes (on the basic rate despite not earning much a lot of the time as an NHS worker). People are always shocked that I wasn't automatically allowed to live here once I married Shaun. I had to jump through a lot of loops to live the man I loved. It wasn't easy at all, even after we got married. I also had to shell out a lot in fees and struggle to interpret the procedures.
If it was that difficult for me, a white American (ie from a rich country) with a very wealthy sponsor, already married to a British citizen and, by the way, also the granddaughter of Scottish migrants to America with English as a first language, imagine how it is for the terrified people who had to run out of their homes without packing, barely being able to say good bye to their families and friends and maybe speaking a few words of English. Once they get here they are treated like common criminals and have to basically be arrested then interviewed until there cases are decided. It is not easy, it is not nice, and the only thing they get out of it is the assurance that they won't be murdered/raped/imprisoned where there is torture/forced into an abusive marriage/forced to serve in a military that carries out ethnic cleansing/victims of female genital mutilation, etc etc.
By the way, I will have been here ten years in January, and I am still not even allowed to vote, therefore I am not on the electoral roll and therefore cannot get things like loans and mortgages from most places. So please don't tell me it is easy to be an immigrant, or that they get more than a British citizen.
I lived in Edinburgh on two council estates. We had very few immigrants around, even though we are the capital city. I could have counted the number of families I saw on one hand. Also, there were HUNDREDS of empty flats, yet we still have homeless people. That is for a number of reasons, including
-Not all people you see on the street are actually homeless. Some pack up their gear and go home when they are finished busking, begging, etc.
-Not all homeless people are willing to apply for housing, whether this is because they are mentally ill, don't know how, or because they are just plain eccentric and don't feel the need for a home. No matter how misguided they are, there are people who genuinely believe there lives are better "outside of the system."
-Even the councils can evict people, and then they have no where to go.
I didn't see a shortage of housing in Edinburgh even though people went on and on about it. I saw a lack of tenants and I blame the council for this. I also agree completely that a lot of it is down to the right to buy laws. I see where these benefit people, like when they are still living in a feudal system of a laird ruling over the town, but not for social housing.
As for immigrants being willing to work for lower wages and in poorer conditions. Well, to some, poor conditions mean having to work over 37 hours of the week, with less than six weeks of holiday per year (I started on that in the NHS), which to the majority of the world is normal. For anyone other than that, it is more a fault of the employers and the regulatory agencies. The UK have strict laws on pay and working conditions and either some employers aren't following them properly by offering immigrants lower wages and poorer conditions, or the minimum wage isn't high enough. I think both of those are the case.
I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion and their own beliefs, but I also believe that you have to own your beliefs and realise that there will be consequences. In the US there is the KKK. They are disgusting. Would you want them teaching your children? Would you want a neo-Nazi teaching them? The BNP's main beliefs, posted somewhere in the first six pages, are the same as any neo-Nazi. They are white supremacists. Sure, I agree that we need less crime and better education, but the methods they propose are extreme, racist, xenephobic, sexist... basically every negative, hateful adjective you can think of. All political parties want less crime, better education, etc., but the BNP want to do that by creating a fascist government.
I think people are getting mixed up between economic migrants and asylum seekers, etc. In order to be allowed to move here permanently, I had to have my rich grandmother sponsor me and sign a letter saying she would provide me with money if I ever need it, so as to prevent me from trying to claim benefits. This was when I was already married to a British person. Now that I have passed the first stages and am a legal resident with an indefinite stay and eligibility for citizenship, I am allowed to apply for benefits (but the only thing I get is MA, before you ask). Previous to that I paid inflated taxes (on the basic rate despite not earning much a lot of the time as an NHS worker). People are always shocked that I wasn't automatically allowed to live here once I married Shaun. I had to jump through a lot of loops to live the man I loved. It wasn't easy at all, even after we got married. I also had to shell out a lot in fees and struggle to interpret the procedures.
If it was that difficult for me, a white American (ie from a rich country) with a very wealthy sponsor, already married to a British citizen and, by the way, also the granddaughter of Scottish migrants to America with English as a first language, imagine how it is for the terrified people who had to run out of their homes without packing, barely being able to say good bye to their families and friends and maybe speaking a few words of English. Once they get here they are treated like common criminals and have to basically be arrested then interviewed until there cases are decided. It is not easy, it is not nice, and the only thing they get out of it is the assurance that they won't be murdered/raped/imprisoned where there is torture/forced into an abusive marriage/forced to serve in a military that carries out ethnic cleansing/victims of female genital mutilation, etc etc.
By the way, I will have been here ten years in January, and I am still not even allowed to vote, therefore I am not on the electoral roll and therefore cannot get things like loans and mortgages from most places. So please don't tell me it is easy to be an immigrant, or that they get more than a British citizen.
Red_Fairy said:
GENIUS!!!!!