Husband involvement

[Anna.Femm]

OH and I have had problems already from the first week. He has also put work first, we came back from hospital on Saturday and we went back to work full time on Monday while I had to nurse every 2 hours which hurt like hell because of latching problems and couldn't stay standing for more than 5 minutes together... He came home and found me crying over nursing baby and I still had to explain what was wrong.

It's been an uphill climb to have him involved with the baby. At first he would just resist any sort of comment or suggestion and said he wanted to do things "his way" otherwise he would disappear and do nothing at all. After a few months he started listening more and be more co-operative, but I still need to specifically ask for him to play with his son, or feed him or look after him. Only today I realised I've never seen him take the baby in his arms and kiss him, never heard him say that he loves him.

He admitted about a week ago that he doesn't feel bonded with our son, and this seems to be the deeper root of all these issues -- it's not just a communication problem like I thought before. For me it felt like I had no choice but to bond with my son, so I sort of took it for granted that the same happened with OH. And unfortunately, this is not something you can do upon request.

Anyway, today I told him I can't do this anymore, I can't pull all the weight of raising a child while he sits on the other side of the couch and dozes off or watches TV. He obviously didn't like hearing it, but it seems like it shook him a bit. I even related how some of the people who wrote in this thread felt this way and had to split up because the father hadn't bonded properly with the baby.

I really think he wants this family to work out as much as I do so I'm hoping that we'll figure it out. I just really wish that we didn't have to go through this, it's been so heartbreaking and exhausting!

 

[Sparklisam]

I don't think there's a right or wrong to how to parent n how much a parent should be involved. I think we all have ideals in our head about what we would expect. Funnily enough tonight I had my first argument with my ex about LO as he wants more time with LO - as mentioned before we split because we were not his priority !! Being split has made him realise but it's too far gone to make a go of being together again. I feel proper tearful tonight as my LO should never be used as a tool and I need to curb my emotions to stop them overtaking over what my LO needs and spending time with his Dad is part of that. He already spends two nights a week with him. I'm proper emotional tonight and angry it's taken him 2 months to ask for extra time. This split parenting is a lot harder than I thought. So fingers crossed by talking he will realise and u can work through it. Me and my ex always talked about everything trying to work through any problems so tonight after texting about the extra time I said why don't u pop over and we can talk about it. He has LO tonight at his mums as he moved home. So asked him to come to mine so LO not involved and he said he's popped out. So basically is out with his friends and his mum has LO. What a hyprocrite !!! There's some very lucky ladies on here and I hope I get to experience a supportive OH in the future ... Trying to stay positive and amicable xx

 

[tinselcat]

I left an abusive relationship when my son was 3 weeks old so my experience is a bit different from the norm.

It's hard to say from the original post whether the issue is that heybabya just needs a bit of extra time for herself (I agree on putting baby in bouncer in the bathroom - only way I've managed it, and baby seems happy to sit and watch) or if the OH is being unreasonable. Certainly she is being considerate towards him, and he doesn't appear to be reciprocating.

Personally I think the "men don't understand the idea of a baby until it's here" is a complete cop-out, they have 7 or 8 months of knowing that this event is likely, even if they don't appreciate how much work it will be when it actually arrives (I think underestimating the amount of physical work involved is true of everybody, not just men).

Part of the domestic abuse course I went on highlighted how, for example, bad fathers might refer to looking after their own child as "babysitting".

 

[kumber]

Sorry tinselcat, but I find your post a little patronising.

Let me begin by saying that I in no way put down your experience. I cannot imagine what things were like for you (having been in a mentally abusive relationship myself) and I think you're a strong woman for walking away with a newborn.

However, I don't think saying that men don't understand is a cop out is right or fair. Being only able to speak for my OH, I can 100% say that he didn't understand what was involved with a baby. He was never really exposed to children beyond his own siblings and his mental capacity at the time of us having our son was such that he just wasn't able to understand what was involved.

Men do take time to bond with a child because they are not genetically and instinctually inclined to bond with a child until they are much older, neither are babies instinctually designed to bond with their father. Up until about 6 or 7, children rely almost solely on their mother. They may have a bond with their father, certainly, but their instinct tells them to go to mummy for everything. This makes it really hard for dad cus they don't get much of a look in.

Sorry, this is something I feel very passionately about and I feel quite sorry for men as they get a right bashing on the forum. You're always going to get bad fathers (mine was appalling) but most men do genuinely find it really hard to cope in the first few months. I don't think that's a reason to compare them to fathers who genuinely don't give a toss.

 

[russellmuscle]

Jackson in his bouncer saved my personal hygine!

I do think although men get the same amount of time we do to "prepare" becoming a mother is very different from becoming a father, and i think naturally it is more understandable to us as women.. I do also believe that the chemical/hormonal changing and bonding makes having a child a bit easier for women, we actually go through, live, breathe and think baby for even before we get our BFP (if TTC). We then get the labour and then become a mother. Lets be honest, women care about abs everything we are so obsessive about parenting compared to men. Thats not to say that men get to have an excuse to not help out.

Both parents obviously being aware of a baby coming means both parents need to work together. But, perhaps I am a bit biased to say women do take to parenthood easier than men. Its programed into us.

xxxxx

 

[Baby2sky]

I also agree with tinselcat. I suffered ptsd and pnd after my daughter and am not ashamed to admit i never instinctively bonded with her until wow maybe even 18 months. I still had to care for her, cuddle her, play with her and provide with her. My husband was and still is incredibly bonded from the moment we first saw her heart beating.

I personally think that too often on here women like to excuse men and use that old "thats just the way men are" line to justify behaviour. Parenting is hard (even more so when psychological disorders come into play) but it should be 100% equal imo once both parents are at home.

 

[tinselcat]

Hi kumber, I think we are all coloured by our experiences. I am in no way intending to dismiss yours.

I have recently been reading a number of books about abusive relationships/how to get out of them.

One issue that women have is that they make excuses for the man's bad behaviour.

For example, I am learning to drive. Amount of time needed before lesson to get ready: 5 minutes (be dressed, get prescription glasses, get front door key, maybe review notes from previous lesson if you need to/have made them...) Nobody needs an hour or two of relaxation time before-hand. (This from heybabya's example)

I've also been spending time with a friend who's a new father (stay-at-home to his first in fact) and seen firsthand how they can be great with babies. And reading books like "Lean In" by Sheryl Sandberg (unfortunately recently bereaved of her husband) and hearing my ex-manager at work (who's just become a dad for the third time) say things like "real men change nappies" etc.

Then there are people who write articles like this (which I find a little nauseating but perhaps that's just envy due to my own situation) - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/laura-powellcorbett/dads-dont-get-enough-credit_b_7956832.html

I think it does plenty of men a disservice to say that they are not capable of looking after newborns properly or bonding with their children immediately. Sure, some won't/can't. But others clearly can.

From my domestic violence course:

"How does the Goodfather behave?"

"For a start he does his share of childcare tasks. He changes nappies, gets up in the night, and feeds the children. He does his share of minding them, and does it properly. If we leave with him to go to work or visit friends, we will find them fed and cared for and safe when we get home. We can then leave them with him again without having to worry.
...
"The Goodfather believes that women and children have rights and deserve respect. He knows that women are perfectly capable of looking after children. He also knows that he should do his share.
...
"He likes women. He likes children."

 

[kumber]

I agree with everything you've said there tinselcat and I think you have highlighted a very good point - not all men can't or won't. And I love the phrase "real men change nappies" cus I think it's very true.

My opinion on this post is focusing on the transition period of men going back to work after paternity and finding that balance. I think it would be fair to say that most first time fathers would find it difficult to get this balance initially because they have never had to accommodate their wife/partner and baby in this way before. That doesn't mean this period should last forever, nor should men be allowed to get away with not helping on some level - be it housework or even just cooking mum her dinner - but I do think there needs to be more understanding from some of the women on the forum that no one is perfect and just because a man is struggling with finding his feet, that doesn't make him a complete barsteward.

Some men take to fatherhood like a duck to water, others like to dip their toes in slowly. Being slower is frustrating for us as mums but it doesn't make them any less of a parent in my view (not saying that that's what you're saying tinselcat).

 

[Brighty]

I've been pretty lucky with my hubby.
He's pulled his share of night feeds, and still takes it in turns with me for night wakes.
No issue with nappy changes and that sort of thing. I think he felt bad in the early days as he would work away for weeks at a time.
Now I'm back at work and he is now in a normalish full time job, I make sure that we still split things as equally as possible. I feel that mums will do the majority of baby care and stuff in most cases, and for me, most the time because it's just easier to get it done, rather then keep having to ask lol!
I think women find it just as much of a shock as men as to how much a baby takes over life. I know I've felt "trapped" many a time. But the problem with most men I've found is that their subconscious says "ah, if I don't do it, she will". It's their nature to be a bit lazier... Just depends if you stand for it

 

[Anna.Femm]

I'm really greatful for the discussion between Kumber and Tinselcat because it gives me to understand that OH isn't a bad father at all: He does exactly all the things that you wrote about the Goodfather. And it might just be that he needs time to bond properly. He has never ever been abusive, neglecting or in any way not accomodating with our baby. Sure, he does it in another way than I would/prefer, but he pulls through and he will feed, clean, entertain and put our son to bed if I need to be out. But when I'm home, he won't rush to do any of these things, he definitely prefers using his time for himself or to talk with me than sit on the floor and play with our son. I just wish he would have bonded by now, that's all, and he would do these things happily and on his own accord even when he doesn't need to.

I keep comparing his emotions and his actions with mine and that, perhaps, is a mistake on my part. After all is said and done, I love him, and breaking up is the last thing I'd ever want to do.

 

[heybabya]

Thanks everyone for their pov and examples.

I've been finding these first few weeks a bit hard. The tiredness is just taking its toll a bit methinks! The same for all first time parents I'd say! My hubby wanted kids more than me so in my case he loves the little one to bits, he's fab with him..until he gets tired and then he gets cranky and yeah I feel like it's what you say bright- it's ok she'll do it now. But if I'm tired and cranky I just need to get on with it..which sucks a bit tbh.

My health visitor said one night the bottle should be at my side of the bed and the next it should be at his, whether he's working or not because it takes two to make a baby so tough luck mate.

I think I'm being a bit too nice and doing the lions share but if I was back at work too we'd deffo be sharing it a lot more!

I just wanted to hear examples of what other people make their working hubby's do to see if I was being too nice or if im expecting too much of him haha!

 

[kitten2014]

In the early weeks hubby and I were both off work so we took it in turns at night to ensure we got some sleep, then gradually I took longer shifts with less sleep and eventually went cold turkey and spent the night with her in same room letting hubby sleep as preparation for him going back to work. Now he's back at work so aside from spending a bit of time with her in the evening each night, his time is the wknds, if I need time to myself he'll take care of her for a few hrs but generally its now 100% my job but he helps with the housework and the cats when he's at home to ease those jobs for me...all in all you work out what works for you, and for me it was easier doing everything than trying to share and having different styles etc...at least now our lil miss knows what to expect...