Enid Blyton

[daftscotslass]

My mum was obsessed with Enid Blyton when she was younger and kept practically every book in case she had kids! She gave them to me and I read most of them but wasn't entirely fussed! I grew up reading Roald Dahl and they will always be my absolute favourite.

 

[ShineyHappyPeople]

I loved the way the mum would always make fresh lemonade and they would all have a sit down to enjoy it - innocent times

 

[Jade&Evie]

... and when did we stop enjoying potted meat!!??

 

[Steelgoddess]

Hmmm

I answered no. I hate books which stereotype and basically cover things up for what they really are...

I read a few Enid Blyton books they were ok, I preferred Roald Dalh myself and whilst they to us as children they are perceived innocently as adults in todays world we should really know better on what to read our children...

I wouldn't want my child growing up to think all nurses are female

FACT: WOG IS A RACIST TERM
FACT: NIGGER IS A RACIST TERM

It doesn't matter whether its covered in chocolate and sprinkly bits its a fact, by just reading it is supporting it...

An excerpt from The Three Golliwogs is illustrative:

Once the three bold Golliwogs, Golly, Woggie, and Nigger, decided to go for a walk to Bumble-Bee Common. Golly wasn't quite ready so Woggie and Nigger said they would start off without him, and Golly would catch them up as soon as he could. So off went Woggie and Nigger, arm-in-arm, singing merrily their favourite song - which, as you may guess, was Ten Little Nigger Boys.

Yes its all done so lovely and innocent our children wouldn't know the difference. But this type of thing sparks off the worst thing of all, ignorance.

Sorry not meaning to turn this post into something it may not be but come on...

 

[Steelgoddess]

Quote: Noor~ul~Usman

he's half-cast! Not multi-cultural or multi-racial Half-cast wasn't considered offensive (as far as I was aware) until recently and I really don't see the need to use a different term for it (unless someone who's sensetive specifically asks you to)

The term is mixed race. Yes half cast is blatantly RUDE! If anyone called my fella that they would have to wash their mouth out with soap and correct themselves!

I must admit that although I wouldn't consider myself racist and have a lot of asian friends - I did grow up in a family with "how many paki's can you fit in a mini" type jokes And it was never meant maliciously it was just that some of the things they did as a culture and some of the names seemed really funny....but we didn't really have anything against them as people at all!

No you're right its not racist its IGNORANT which imho is worse. Ignorance sparks racism

Because they're the same...a lot of them think white people do funny things and they have their own jokes about us. But at the end of the day if there's no ill will and the jokes are private between people who aren't sensetive about it then it's ok Just wouldn't do somat like sit in the middle of the bus and start telling them

Sorry by "they" who do you mean?
You can't be serious can you??????? Im actually quite shocked you even posted that utter load of trollop!

As my mother would say you need to wash your mouth out with soap!

 

[rusks]

i loved these books will def read them to my LO they are fantastic stories x

 

[hennaly]

I have 2 redheaded children (well 18 and 14) and they are always called gingers but it doesnt bother any of us and i get refered to as blonde bimbo alot but i really dont care now if we were all politically correct this shouldnt be allowed.
I have to agree some terms are not nice and if i ever heard any of mine using them they would get soap in the mouth, i do think terms like nigger etc are derogitory but calling someone black i see as ok, maybe im wrong but i get refered to as white not pinky white.

 

[Minxy]

Hmmm

I answered no. I hate books which stereotype and basically cover things up for what they really are...

I read a few Enid Blyton books they were ok, I preferred Roald Dalh myself and whilst they to us as children they are perceived innocently as adults in todays world we should really know better on what to read our children...

I wouldn't want my child growing up to think all nurses are female

FACT: WOG IS A RACIST TERM
FACT: NIGGER IS A RACIST TERM

It doesn't matter whether its covered in chocolate and sprinkly bits its a fact, by just reading it is supporting it...

An excerpt from The Three Golliwogs is illustrative:

Once the three bold Golliwogs, Golly, Woggie, and Nigger, decided to go for a walk to Bumble-Bee Common. Golly wasn't quite ready so Woggie and Nigger said they would start off without him, and Golly would catch them up as soon as he could. So off went Woggie and Nigger, arm-in-arm, singing merrily their favourite song - which, as you may guess, was Ten Little Nigger Boys.

Yes its all done so lovely and innocent our children wouldn't know the difference. But this type of thing sparks off the worst thing of all, ignorance.

Sorry not meaning to turn this post into something it may not be but come on...

I DO agree with what you're saying in that case, and I wouldn't read anything like that to my child. But Blyton wrote over 400 titles and most of them aren't anywhere near that explicit. Or implicit, really. The gollies are a very small part of her work. The odd theme like all nurses being female can be explained away with a sentence ('Uncle Alan is a nurse, isn't he?) or something.

If anyone chose to boycott all works by Blyton in their home I understand that. But for us, some of her books were so seminal to my imaginative development I'd want to (screen) and then read them to Stanley.

 

[zebrastripes]

Hmmm

I answered no. I hate books which stereotype and basically cover things up for what they really are...

I read a few Enid Blyton books they were ok, I preferred Roald Dalh myself and whilst they to us as children they are perceived innocently as adults in todays world we should really know better on what to read our children...

I wouldn't want my child growing up to think all nurses are female

FACT: WOG IS A RACIST TERM
FACT: NIGGER IS A RACIST TERM

It doesn't matter whether its covered in chocolate and sprinkly bits its a fact, by just reading it is supporting it...

An excerpt from The Three Golliwogs is illustrative:

Once the three bold Golliwogs, Golly, Woggie, and Nigger, decided to go for a walk to Bumble-Bee Common. Golly wasn't quite ready so Woggie and Nigger said they would start off without him, and Golly would catch them up as soon as he could. So off went Woggie and Nigger, arm-in-arm, singing merrily their favourite song - which, as you may guess, was Ten Little Nigger Boys.

Yes its all done so lovely and innocent our children wouldn't know the difference. But this type of thing sparks off the worst thing of all, ignorance.

Sorry not meaning to turn this post into something it may not be but come on...

I DO agree with what you're saying in that case, and I wouldn't read anything like that to my child. But Blyton wrote over 400 titles and most of them aren't anywhere near that explicit. Or implicit, really. The gollies are a very small part of her work. The odd theme like all nurses being female can be explained away with a sentence ('Uncle Alan is a nurse, isn't he?) or something.

If anyone chose to boycott all works by Blyton in their home I understand that. But for us, some of her books were so seminal to my imaginative development I'd want to (screen) and then read them to Stanley.

I have to agree with Minxy, I doubt anyone would read something where the characters were called Woggie and Nigger. Unless they're a member of the BNP or something. Because Enid Bltyon or not, that is wrong.

However as Minxy said, there are plenty of Enid Blyton books which don't make reference to that at all.

Plus as far as I can remember the whole golly thing was in the books for much younger children. I can't remember reading anything that explicit in the ones I read aged about 7-10

 

[Steelgoddess]

I was talking with relevance to certain books in particular and the other discussion around this... When Jade had stated someone told her enids books were sexist/racist etc... I basically replied by saying well yes it was ok maybe back then it wasn't seen that way but in this day and age we should know better its not about being POLITICALLY CORRECT its about having some sort of knowledge of history of where things like Gollywogs actually come from...

I also stated that I had read some of her work and wasn't particulary bothered about reading them again as I think there are better stories out there, that was my own opinion in answer to Jades post...

I was also discussing the blatent ignorance that some of you ladies come out with on this forum, all be it not directly linked with the topic.

It's harder to see something when you are on the other side looking in. Maybe if a few of you looked at the bigger picture you would understand exactly where I am coming from...

 

[Steelgoddess]

I have 2 redheaded children (well 18 and 14) and they are always called gingers but it doesnt bother any of us and i get refered to as blonde bimbo alot but i really dont care now if we were all politically correct this shouldnt be allowed.
I have to agree some terms are not nice and if i ever heard any of mine using them they would get soap in the mouth, i do think terms like nigger etc are derogitory but calling someone black i see as ok, maybe im wrong but i get refered to as white not pinky white.

It depends on how it is said and in what context...

Its this type of thing that ppl go to court over because ppl are just too ignorant to see when something is said in the wrong or right way... Whether it bothers the person is by the by...

Most likely why the "senior" staff pulled you up because "if" "Betty" had lodged a complaint well where would everyone stand then?

 

[zebrastripes]

I was talking with relevance to certain books in particular and the other discussion around this... When Jade had stated someone told her enids books were sexist/racist etc... I basically replied by saying well yes it was ok maybe back then it wasn't seen that way but in this day and age we should know better its not about being POLITICALLY CORRECT its about having some sort of knowledge of history of where things like Gollywogs actually come from...

Which is what I said in my first post on this subject And I agree. Just wanted to clarify that not all the books are like that, as i wouldn;t like to be thought of as racist if "by just reading it is supporting it"

 

[newmum]

I was also discussing the blatent ignorance that some of you ladies come out with on this forum, all be it not directly linked with the topic.

ow! Which topic do you mean? Enid Blyton, or racism, or sexism or pregnancy, or just everything? Sorry - couldn't work it out.

 

[mamichuli]

Back to answering the thread, I think Ladies. I would read Enid Blyton's work to my children. I am convinced that there is no "racist/sexist" attitude in the way that a lot of people think. I would like to suggest that she simply wrote in the way of the era, when, the truth is that 90% of nurses were female. As far as golliwogs are concerned, let us just imagine that she was making reference to the black comunity (which was probably close to non - existent in her life), I am sure that children did/do not pick up on it. A golliwog is just a character - a bad one in the case of Noddy. Maybe the "politically correct goblins" are about short people, shouldnt the minority of people suffering from diseases that make them short be complaining?

To give you another example, in the USA, twenty years ago, it was almost impossible to buy the book "Uncle Tom's Cabin", which is about racial slavery in the United States and about one family in particular. It was unofficially blacklisted and considered to be racist. The most curious thing here is that the author, a woman by the name of Harriet Beecher Stowe was one of the first people to denounce the terrible injustices that these people suffered, one of the very first abolitionists ever. Talk about ignorance...

I think that the concepts of racism/sexism/younameit will appear in our children's lives (flims, books, the papers, etc) it is up to us, not to protect them from these, but to teach them about these things, the history of them and what is right. By hiding from these issues we give room to the possibility of misinterpretation. I think that a story for children is just that, a story. It is up to us to give our children the right values.

Sadly I would love my children to enjoy books by Enid Blyton as much as I did, but the truth is that they ARE dated and that my eldest is the example of a child that found them so, and was less than interested in them. Each to their own, and with freedom to choose...


Lisa

 

[widowwadman]

I think Steelgoddess raises some very good points, especially about the matter of ignorance. I can't count how many times I've come accross casual racism and xenophobia by people who don't seem themselves as xenophobic or racist and are quite surprised, if not embarrassed when challenged.

For example I had people ranting about foreigners coming in and stealing jobs and benefits yada yada yada or telling xenophobic jokes in my presence, as people often forget that I'm an immigrant, because I'm white and very fluent in English. When I point out, the usual "but I don't mean you, only the others" feeble excuse follows. Well, as far as I'm concerned I'm no different to the others, so any attack against them, should include me, too.

I find the ignorance of people very hurtful (if not more, because it's more widespread than downright hate, so I encounter it more often) and annoying. Therefore it is important that it is challenged. It is also important that there is awareness. That's why books should never be banned or hidden away, but they should be discussed.

Of course Blyton was a child of her times, but just saying that and brushing over it without discussing the context would be wrong. Just because it is as times were back then, doesn't make anything she's written "right", it just means that the books are a starting point to discuss what was different back then, and why society has moved on and should move on.

 

[rusks]

the adventures of the wishing chair, one of my personal favourites!!

 

[Jade&Evie]

Of course Blyton was a child of her times, but just saying that and brushing over it without discussing the context would be wrong. Just because it is as times were back then, doesn't make anything she's written "right", it just means that the books are a starting point to discuss what was different back then, and why society has moved on and should move on.

If that's the case then surely we shouldn't read classics such as Lord of The Flies (Piggy was so called because he was fat!) or any Jane Austen books (can't get much more sexist then good ol' Jane!). I think that reading to a child of 4 and 5 and explaining there and then that in the "olden days" most nurses were women and no matter what colour your skin is everyone is equal you are instilling those facts from a young age. IMHO young children are actually a lot more accepting of change and people being "different" than we give them credit for.

I always read Enid Blyton from when I was 5 to when I was 11 (or 15 ) and I haven't turned out racist or xenophobic- thats because of my upbringing not which bedtime stories I was read!

 

[widowwadman]

I think you've misunderstood me. I think they should be read, but explained. That's why I meant they should be a starting point to discuss and not just read out without comment or further explanation. And the same applies to any other book or fairy tale, or general work of fiction.

 

[badgergirl]

I'll read some of them, but am more than willing to discuss context etc. Famous Five, Secret 7, Adventurers-and-Dog, Faraway Tree, and Willowtree Farm are all fond memories of mine.

 

[beanie]

I think it is always helpful to remember that just because you don't find somethig offensive doesn't mean that no-one else will. Joking around as using these derogatory names as a joke is just as offensive and it is never ok to use them. People go on about being called whitey - as far as I am aware the term whitey does not have the history of oppression and brutality that the terms coloured and nigger have. To compare the two is ridiculous. A bit of knowledge goes a long way, and if people could understand the significance of why some terms are seen as wrong, perhaps we wouldn't have to have the PC brigade coming down on us