Dilema - Advice welcome! - Sorry, Long Post!!

[LaineyG]

Well,
Today was meant to be the day when my Ex and I went shopping for all the baby stuff. We were going to Babies'r'us, Mothercare and our local pram centre to order the pram, cot, changing table and Moses basket.

When we got to the car park of Toys'r'us he asked what I wanted him to do about money for the baby. I said, "Well, what you want to buy today is up to you, obviously you'll be paying me a monthly amount to support the child" and he said "I'm disappointed that you said that. I was going to buy everything today, and everything the child needs, holidays, bikes, clothes (he seems to be forgetting that a newborn doesn't need a bike! Nappies are a bit more important now!) and not pay you any allowance"

I said, "Look, can we discuss this at a later date as I don't really want to get into any discussion that could lead to confrontation" and he started in on me!

So I got out the car and went into the shop. He followed and said "Think carefully about this. If you want me to pay you a salary then fine (salary!?!?! what about maintenance!?!?!) but my family and I are prepared to spoil this child rotten and if you want a set amount then that won't be happening"

I told him that "This was exactly the reason I didn't want to discuss this now (he's already put my blood pressure through the roof once before). This baby is an innocent party in this and you or I have no right in upsetting it and raising my blood pressure"

So he disappeared in the shop. I went around and picked up what I needed, paid for it and waited outside for him. He put the stuff in the car and said "Where to now?" and I said Home.

On the way down the road, after me explicitly saying that I didn't want to discuss this (I already had a sore, tight head starting) he started again.

Things like "All I ask is that you show me and my family some respect" "My family and I will probably give this child more than you and your family ever will" "If I take this child for 3 and a half days a week then I'd expect you to give me that weeks money back" "I've already looked into private schools and I will give this child everything, but not if you expect me to pay an salary into YOUR bank account"

I lost it. Started crying and screaming at him told him that I'd asked him not to discuss this now and he just couldn't stop, please leave this and let me calm down.

So he dropped me off, and here I am, still in tears and in shock at the things he said.

So, the advice I'm really looking for is, how do you as single parents, handle the money side of things, am I being unreasonable?

xxx

 

[MissGobby]

omg what an a*sehole!!!!! hunny you are NOT being unreasonable in the slightest - its HIM that is being unreasonable!!!!

 

[mum2be?]

I cant comment on experience but can say what i would do.

Firstly he is in wrong for not dropping it when you asked.

Secondly. if he is going to contribute to baby & bills you need paying for and dont muck you around then i would say see how things go but if things started that he would not give you money ect then i would organise a weekly/monthly fee, but i would see if i could do it with less stress as possible.

 

[weenik]

I think the fact that he said about if he sees the baby 3.5 days a week he'd want the money back for the week says it all! I can understand that you want to know how much money you're getting in each month so you can budget and work out what you need to buy etc. I'm not saying that he's right but he's probably thinking that he would rather buy things than hand over money to you because he maybe feels that he's giving it to you rather than the baby. I'm not saying that's right because it's not, it's just the way mens heads work.

What about writing a list of all the things you'll need to buy on a weekly/monthy basis and totalling it all up to show him how much everything costs and explain to him you want to make sure you don't run out of anything. Then maybe he'll see that there's so much more a baby needs than just private schools, toys and games. Good luck x

 

[libs]

Him buying bikes and all the other stuff won't be any help towards paying the gas bill, putting food on the table or sheets on the bed where your LO will sleep. How lovely for him to buy all the treats whilst you say no in the supermarket as you can't afford it. How great will daddy look whilst you won't be buying any presents etc as you can't afford? I assume that he has quite a bit of money so you should be able to get a good amount of maintenance - much more than he could possibly spend on treats unless this child is to be thoroughly spolit every week. If he has the child for 3 1/2 days does the house where the child usually live stop costing money?

Tell him to talk to your solicitor in future and stop giving him the chance to wind you up. You can get a weekly/monthly maintenance payment off him and that's what you should do.

 

[Squiglet]

Wehn I split up with my ex we made the agreement that it was his choice on what to pay towards maintaince and thus in turn would determin the level of visitation, as I could afford to support myself and Tia but I couldn't go around paying for train/plane tickets and hotel accommodation to take Tia to visit him whenever he wished, however he is free to spend the money to come and see his child whenever he wants.

Well its been 3 years since he has seen his child, he hasn't paid a penny and hasn't come to see her once. Like your ex, he's sent Tia some paultry guilt presents such as a nintendo DS and games, which I couldn't afford in my wildest dreams. But gifts are gifts, and its the visitation that matters in order to keep the relationship alive. As time has gone on, his interest in his daughter has dwindled away to nothing and he barely remembers her birthday or christmas anymore and when he does its usually around three months after the fact.

I think you should go see your solicitor and look at making the visitation and the maintaince legal. Refuse to discuss this matter with him any further. You have made your feelings clear, he has made his. It doesn't seem like you can come to an agreement amicably at the moment, so let a third unbiased party do the job for you. If he tries to talk to you about it and you are unable to walk away, just ignore him, until you can. At the end of the day, no court will look favorably on him if he refuses to pay maintaince but demands visitation for "gifts". Babies need more than gifts, they need nappies, baby food, clothes, warmth, heat and light.

It seems to me that he and his family are already viewing this child as a trophy or toy to be used whenever it suits them. Have respect for both yourself and his family and go the secure legal route. He will have no come back then.

Good luck hun... I know its hard

 

[katyk]

Lainey, you are right to plan on insisting a regular amount is paid, then you have control over you and your baby's income. Otherwise you would always be having to wrangle with your ex for money, and it would mean added stress for you.

Sounds like he's being a bit of a control freak and wants to be able to behave just as he likes.

 

[Babylicious]

I had this with my ex, I took him to the CSA. He should want to support his child, it's anot all about the fun thinks like holidays, what about food, clothes and a roof over the baby's head?

Sorry but he's being unreasonable

 

[LaineyG]

Thanks girls!

My cousin phoned me this morning to say she had met my Ex's pal out last night. He is in a similar situation and he said to her that he'd tried talking to him and telling him that a monthly amount is the norm. He said he is being really difficult and won't listen to any advice.

He also said that my Ex had mentioned that he had done his research on-line and had looked into Fathers for Justice ......that made me laugh as I had instant mental images of my ex in a batman suit protesting at the scottish parliment!

Am I right in that it is not just food and clothes that he needs to contribute to, but a roof over the babies head (i.e my rent and bills)??

xxx

 

[Babylicious]

definately is - my ex pays me a fixed amount each month - doesn't go that far but it all helps

 

[libs]

The amount paid isn't usually set by half the food, half the clothes etc, its set by his income.

Tell him good luck with Fathers for Justice - they are fathers who pay their maintenance and get no access and withdraw their maintenance sometimes in protest - so he won't get any sympathy there for refusing to pay towards his child

 

Lainey,

I'd agree with what the others are saying on here: your ex wants to contribute what he wants, when he wants and so that the child will always know what has come from dad's side of the family (all the "fun" things like toys and holidays etc.). This is a way of controlling you and is also a way of saying that he sees the child as a possession, as "his", but something apart from you - ha! In his dreams.

The only way of really enforcing maintenance nowadays for reluctant payers is through the CSA - the courts don't want anything much to do with it because that's why the CSA was set up. It would cost a lot to go through a court, but the CSA is free.

The CSA will calculate maintenance at 15% of his income (money is "net", less any pension contribution) for one child. It can be trickier if he's self-employed and/or has more than one source of income, because this way, he may try to "hide" his income.

Also, if you ever claim Income Supposrt or JSA, the CSA collects the maintenance on your behalf and deducts anything over (I was told a couple of years ago that it was as little as £10 per week? but check this). As you're working, it shouldn't affect you.

Oh, and he's partially right - the CSA also base their estimate on the number of nights per year spent with the absent parent (up to 52 nights per year is the normal amount which does not affect the maintenance, but anything over this and he would pay a reduced amount). For each regular night per week the children stay with the non resident parent, 1/7 will be deducted from the maintenance amount.

His own housing costs, transport to work costs etc. are irrelevent - the percentage is based on his net income only (I'm assuming he has no other children?).

It doesn't matter how much you yourself earn, and your claim for child tax credits is not affected by maintenance either - so you could potentially be much better off (i.e. your salary, child benefit, child tax credit PLUS maintenance from him).

What I'd do if I was you, when I was a bit calmer, is to tell your ex the facts as I have outlined them - that you are entitled by law to claim 15% of his net income. And I'd only let him have the child on weekends, so it didn't affect payments! Tell him that if he doesn't pay you the fixed amount each month, that it's okay, as the CSA will collect it on your behalf (they have the power to put an attachment order on his salary, i.e. "arrest" his wages). If he's anything like my ex, he'll threaten to give up work, but probably won't...

Oh, and the "extras" he's promised, such as gifts of bikes - they're not cash, so don't count as your maintenance which you can get back-dated, so tell him he'll be doing himself no favours unless he pays you what you're legally entitled to from the outset.

Lainey - you are in control, not him. Remember that you have a gov. department (which isn't so bad as it used to be) on your side here, next time he tries to make any of his threats.

Lastly, remember that your ex has no automatic entitlement to parental responsibility of the child at all in Scotland as you two are not married. It is totally up to you to give him any rights over his child (this is called "parental responsility") by naming him on the birth certificate. Until he is so named (he has to be present when you register the birth), neither he nor his parents have any "rights" whatsoever. Also, even if you do name him on the birth certificate, access to the child is up to you uless he takes you to court. I don't think weekend visits is unreasonable. His parents would have to go to court for access if they wanted to make their own claim. I hope it doesn't come to this, but it might help you to know your rights, just so that you feel stronger when dealing with the bossy so-and-so

Good luck!

Wendy