Smokers banned from fostering - POLL ADDED

[ninjawomble]

On a positive note, at least it may convince would be foster parents to give up the ciggies.
And that can only be a good thing, for their health and any future children.

 

[Becky]

I disagree with the ban because I do think that what a child ultimately needs is love and security and being a smoker doesn't mean that you can't provide those things.

I disagree with smoking and never understood the appeal but just because you smoke does not make you a bad parent.

 

[zebrastripes]

I will say it again.........I AM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO SMOKE AROUND CHILDREN NOT THE ONES WHO HAVE CHILDREN AND SMOKE OUTSIDE AWAY FROM THEM.
Besides i am entitled to an opinion am i not or is it that i can have one so long as i dont express it on here.

Ah yes I just went back and read your last post.

I still think it's a bit silly to say that people who smoke around children are abusing them. As abhorrent as I find the practice, that would mean my grandmother "abused" all four of her children, as did my other grandmother, a good few aunts and uncles, plus extended family.

Where abouts did I,or anyone else say you could neither hold nor express an opinion? I was simply challenging that opinion. Or is it that it is OK for you to hold an opinion as long as it is not made a topic of debate? That's a bit pointless. It's not an opinion then,it's a dogma.

Why does everything have to be about a debate on here though? Why cant someone just have an opinion, air that opinion and move on. We all have different views which i think is great as the world would be a boring place to be if we all agreed. Some people are very passionate on certain subjects (im the same when it comes to smoking around children). YOu shouldnt constantly have to justify your views (IN MY OPINION!)

Claire x

because not everyone thinks that if someone says something, everyone else should sit back and go blank. The tossing to and fro of ideas and opnions is one of the basis of personal growth,without which we mentally stagnate. It's not about justifying views. I don't understand why people can't accept challeneges to their opinion

 

[mummykay]

dont think its about justification tbh, more like everyone puttin disclaimers on their posts so people dont get offended/upset etc

everyones allowed an opinion, so long as its not bein rammed down ppls throats then theres no problems

 

[nori]

I will say it again.........I AM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO SMOKE AROUND CHILDREN NOT THE ONES WHO HAVE CHILDREN AND SMOKE OUTSIDE AWAY FROM THEM.
Besides i am entitled to an opinion am i not or is it that i can have one so long as i dont express it on here.

Ah yes I just went back and read your last post.

I still think it's a bit silly to say that people who smoke around children are abusing them. As abhorrent as I find the practice, that would mean my grandmother "abused" all four of her children, as did my other grandmother, a good few aunts and uncles, plus extended family.

Where abouts did I,or anyone else say you could neither hold nor express an opinion? I was simply challenging that opinion. Or is it that it is OK for you to hold an opinion as long as it is not made a topic of debate? That's a bit pointless. It's not an opinion then,it's a dogma.

Why does everything have to be about a debate on here though? Why cant someone just have an opinion, air that opinion and move on. We all have different views which i think is great as the world would be a boring place to be if we all agreed. Some people are very passionate on certain subjects (im the same when it comes to smoking around children). YOu shouldnt constantly have to justify your views (IN MY OPINION!)

Claire x

because not everyone thinks that if someone says something, everyone else should sit back and go blank. The tossing to and fro of ideas and opnions is one of the basis of personal growth,without which we mentally stagnate. It's not about justifying views. I don't understand why people can't accept challeneges to their opinion

Why should everyone accept a challenge of opinion? Its just that.. an "opinion". Im all for a good debate but some people arent and shouldnt have to be drawn into a debate if they dont want to be. They shouldnt feel bad for having their OPINION. Christ the topics of smoking and breastfeeding on this forum are definately hot topics! lol..

 

[Krystal]

I will say it again.........I AM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO SMOKE AROUND CHILDREN NOT THE ONES WHO HAVE CHILDREN AND SMOKE OUTSIDE AWAY FROM THEM.
Besides i am entitled to an opinion am i not or is it that i can have one so long as i dont express it on here.

Ah yes I just went back and read your last post.

I still think it's a bit silly to say that people who smoke around children are abusing them. As abhorrent as I find the practice, that would mean my grandmother "abused" all four of her children, as did my other grandmother, a good few aunts and uncles, plus extended family.

Where abouts did I,or anyone else say you could neither hold nor express an opinion? I was simply challenging that opinion. Or is it that it is OK for you to hold an opinion as long as it is not made a topic of debate? That's a bit pointless. It's not an opinion then,it's a dogma.

Why does everything have to be about a debate on here though? Why cant someone just have an opinion, air that opinion and move on. We all have different views which i think is great as the world would be a boring place to be if we all agreed. Some people are very passionate on certain subjects (im the same when it comes to smoking around children). YOu shouldnt constantly have to justify your views (IN MY OPINION!)

Claire x

because not everyone thinks that if someone says something, everyone else should sit back and go blank. The tossing to and fro of ideas and opnions is one of the basis of personal growth,without which we mentally stagnate. It's not about justifying views. I don't understand why people can't accept challeneges to their opinion

Why should everyone accept a challenge of opinion? Its just that.. an "opinion". Im all for a good debate but some people arent and shouldnt have to be drawn into a debate if they dont want to be. They shouldnt feel bad for having their OPINION. Christ the topics of smoking and breastfeeding on this forum are definately hot topics! lol..

Zeb was just expressing her opinion. if you don't think apions should be challenged what exactly are you doing now

 

[zebrastripes]

I will say it again.........I AM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO SMOKE AROUND CHILDREN NOT THE ONES WHO HAVE CHILDREN AND SMOKE OUTSIDE AWAY FROM THEM.
Besides i am entitled to an opinion am i not or is it that i can have one so long as i dont express it on here.

Ah yes I just went back and read your last post.

I still think it's a bit silly to say that people who smoke around children are abusing them. As abhorrent as I find the practice, that would mean my grandmother "abused" all four of her children, as did my other grandmother, a good few aunts and uncles, plus extended family.

Where abouts did I,or anyone else say you could neither hold nor express an opinion? I was simply challenging that opinion. Or is it that it is OK for you to hold an opinion as long as it is not made a topic of debate? That's a bit pointless. It's not an opinion then,it's a dogma.

Why does everything have to be about a debate on here though? Why cant someone just have an opinion, air that opinion and move on. We all have different views which i think is great as the world would be a boring place to be if we all agreed. Some people are very passionate on certain subjects (im the same when it comes to smoking around children). YOu shouldnt constantly have to justify your views (IN MY OPINION!)

Claire x

because not everyone thinks that if someone says something, everyone else should sit back and go blank. The tossing to and fro of ideas and opnions is one of the basis of personal growth,without which we mentally stagnate. It's not about justifying views. I don't understand why people can't accept challeneges to their opinion

Why should everyone accept a challenge of opinion? Its just that.. an "opinion". Im all for a good debate but some people arent and shouldnt have to be drawn into a debate if they dont want to be. They shouldnt feel bad for having their OPINION. Christ the topics of smoking and breastfeeding on this forum are definately hot topics! lol..

Unless it's an "opinion" that something is an extreme topic such as..ohh, saying people who smoke near children are child abusers?
If someone is going to come out with something like that they should be fully prepared to be challeneged. It's naive to think that inflammatory statements like that should just be waved on. It's not like I'm disagreeing with her idea that Weetabix is better than readybrek or something.

 

[zebrastripes]

[quote="hennaly":cy3ue17g]I will say it again.........I AM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO SMOKE AROUND CHILDREN NOT THE ONES WHO HAVE CHILDREN AND SMOKE OUTSIDE AWAY FROM THEM.
Besides i am entitled to an opinion am i not or is it that i can have one so long as i dont express it on here.

Ah yes I just went back and read your last post.

I still think it's a bit silly to say that people who smoke around children are abusing them. As abhorrent as I find the practice, that would mean my grandmother "abused" all four of her children, as did my other grandmother, a good few aunts and uncles, plus extended family.

Where abouts did I,or anyone else say you could neither hold nor express an opinion? I was simply challenging that opinion. Or is it that it is OK for you to hold an opinion as long as it is not made a topic of debate? That's a bit pointless. It's not an opinion then,it's a dogma.

Why does everything have to be about a debate on here though? Why cant someone just have an opinion, air that opinion and move on. We all have different views which i think is great as the world would be a boring place to be if we all agreed. Some people are very passionate on certain subjects (im the same when it comes to smoking around children). YOu shouldnt constantly have to justify your views (IN MY OPINION!)

Claire x

because not everyone thinks that if someone says something, everyone else should sit back and go blank. The tossing to and fro of ideas and opnions is one of the basis of personal growth,without which we mentally stagnate. It's not about justifying views. I don't understand why people can't accept challeneges to their opinion

Why should everyone accept a challenge of opinion? Its just that.. an "opinion". Im all for a good debate but some people arent and shouldnt have to be drawn into a debate if they dont want to be. They shouldnt feel bad for having their OPINION. Christ the topics of smoking and breastfeeding on this forum are definately hot topics! lol..

Zeb was just expressing her opinion. if you don't think apions should be challenged what exactly are you doing now [/quote:cy3ue17g]

Thank you dear!

 

[nori]

[quote="hennaly":26hjzmmt]I will say it again.........I AM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO SMOKE AROUND CHILDREN NOT THE ONES WHO HAVE CHILDREN AND SMOKE OUTSIDE AWAY FROM THEM.
Besides i am entitled to an opinion am i not or is it that i can have one so long as i dont express it on here.

Ah yes I just went back and read your last post.

I still think it's a bit silly to say that people who smoke around children are abusing them. As abhorrent as I find the practice, that would mean my grandmother "abused" all four of her children, as did my other grandmother, a good few aunts and uncles, plus extended family.

Where abouts did I,or anyone else say you could neither hold nor express an opinion? I was simply challenging that opinion. Or is it that it is OK for you to hold an opinion as long as it is not made a topic of debate? That's a bit pointless. It's not an opinion then,it's a dogma.

Why does everything have to be about a debate on here though? Why cant someone just have an opinion, air that opinion and move on. We all have different views which i think is great as the world would be a boring place to be if we all agreed. Some people are very passionate on certain subjects (im the same when it comes to smoking around children). YOu shouldnt constantly have to justify your views (IN MY OPINION!)

Claire x

because not everyone thinks that if someone says something, everyone else should sit back and go blank. The tossing to and fro of ideas and opnions is one of the basis of personal growth,without which we mentally stagnate. It's not about justifying views. I don't understand why people can't accept challeneges to their opinion

Why should everyone accept a challenge of opinion? Its just that.. an "opinion". Im all for a good debate but some people arent and shouldnt have to be drawn into a debate if they dont want to be. They shouldnt feel bad for having their OPINION. Christ the topics of smoking and breastfeeding on this forum are definately hot topics! lol..

Zeb was just expressing her opinion. if you don't think apions should be challenged what exactly are you doing now [/quote:26hjzmmt]

Did i say that "I" wouldnt accept a challenge of opinion? I said that not EVERYONE wants their opinion to be challenged. Its just that.. an opinion..I had similar responses when i made my opinion about people who smoke during pregnancy. a lot of people on here got very defensive about it and didnt agree with me. Thats fair enough.. my opinion wont change on the subject and i will never agree with their views. There are times you agree to disagree in life.

 

[zebrastripes]

[quote="zebrastripes":3bqjul1k][quote="hennaly":3bqjul1k]I will say it again.........I AM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO SMOKE AROUND CHILDREN NOT THE ONES WHO HAVE CHILDREN AND SMOKE OUTSIDE AWAY FROM THEM.
Besides i am entitled to an opinion am i not or is it that i can have one so long as i dont express it on here.

Ah yes I just went back and read your last post.

I still think it's a bit silly to say that people who smoke around children are abusing them. As abhorrent as I find the practice, that would mean my grandmother "abused" all four of her children, as did my other grandmother, a good few aunts and uncles, plus extended family.

Where abouts did I,or anyone else say you could neither hold nor express an opinion? I was simply challenging that opinion. Or is it that it is OK for you to hold an opinion as long as it is not made a topic of debate? That's a bit
pointless. It's not an opinion then,it's a dogma.

Why does everything have to be about a debate on here though? Why cant someone just have an opinion, air that opinion and move on. We all have different views which i think is great as the world would be a boring place to be if we all agreed. Some people are very passionate on certain subjects (im the same when it comes to smoking around children). YOu shouldnt constantly have to justify your views (IN MY OPINION!)

Claire x

because not everyone thinks that if someone says something, everyone else should sit back and go blank. The tossing to and fro of ideas and opnions is one of the basis of personal growth,without which we mentally stagnate. It's not about justifying views. I don't understand why people can't accept challeneges to their opinion

Why should everyone accept a challenge of opinion? Its just that.. an "opinion". Im all for a good debate but some people arent and shouldnt have to be drawn into a debate if they dont want to be. They shouldnt feel bad for having their OPINION. Christ the topics of smoking and breastfeeding on this forum are definately hot topics! lol..

Zeb was just expressing her opinion. if you don't think apions should be challenged what exactly are you doing now [/quote:3bqjul1k]

Did i say that "I" wouldnt accept a challenge of opinion? I said that not EVERYONE wants their opinion to be challenged. Its just that.. an opinion..I had similar responses when i made my opinion about people who smoke during pregnancy. a lot of people on here got very defensive about it and didnt agree with me. Thats fair enough.. my opinion wont change on the subject and i will never agree with their views. There are times you agree to disagree in life.[/quote:3bqjul1k]

 

[Potbelijo]

I'm very much an "anti-smoker" person too. When I lived in my parents I would leave the room in disgust when they lit up. The OH has recently stopped smoking. It's not the first time he's tried to stop, but once we started to try for a baby he felt that he should. Not once did I pressure him about it. I would have settled for him smoking outside (and would have tried not to giggled when it rained). Bless him he's done well, it hasn't been easy.

I notice that most of you are disagreeing with this new law. To be honest though, I don't understand why you all think it's so bad.

We all know smoking is bad for you, so it's not like people are being asked to give up something wonderful in order to become foster parents. Rather, if they want to foster, they need to stop smoking, and surely that can only be a good thing for their OWN health, as well as that of the child.

It's not impossible to stop smoking - why would they want to smoke anyway? It's socially frowned upon, it stinks, it's hazardous to health, it makes your teeth and fingers yellow....
why would anybody object to this law? I can't quite fathom it out.

Because it is an addiction and a very underestimated one. My Mam is dying of cancer, it's unlikely she will see this baby born. When she was diagnosed a couple of years ago she was advised not to try to give up as the side affects of fighting the addiction would make her feel a lot worse and be more detrimental to her health.

We all know smoking is bad for you, so it's not like people are being asked to give up something wonderful in order to become foster parents. Rather, if they want to foster, they need to stop smoking, and surely that can only be a good thing for their OWN health, as well as that of the child.

But it's nanny-state going a bit mad. People do lots of things that are bad for them but would be easy to give up. Should overweight people be banned from caring for children because they don't want to give up the takeaways that are 'bad for them'? Where does it stop?

If people have to show themselves to be some kind of Stepford-esque example of human perfection before they can care for children I fear no child in care will ever get to experience a loving home!

And this is why I'm vehemently against this law. We are already monitored far too much in this county. We have very few civil freedoms left.

It puts me in mind of the poem "First they came…" which is about the passiveness of some of Germany as the Nazi's came to power. This in itself is a little extreme to apply to this situation but poem has been adapted many times to reflect the way society is leaning,

Let them target the smokers, then the drinkers, then the junkfood eaters, then the telly addicts....really where is the line.

I whole heartedly agree that smoking around children is wrong and can understand why many people have such passionate views on it. But regarding it clinging to clothes and such, really... can they determine what is smoke clinging to your clothes from poisonous petrol fumes you walk you child home in? We will never see them banning motor vehicles. No this is just another fashionable ploy from the government to try to win favour.

 

[Krystal]

FFS stop quoting the quotes man taking me ages to get to the actual posts

 

[Krystal]

not you potbelio btw lol

 

[Krystal]

I'm very much an "anti-smoker" person too. When I lived in my parents I would leave the room in disgust when they lit up. The OH has recently stopped smoking. It's not the first time he's tried to stop, but once we started to try for a baby he felt that he should. Not once did I pressure him about it. I would have settled for him smoking outside (and would have tried not to giggled when it rained). Bless him he's done well, it hasn't been easy.

I notice that most of you are disagreeing with this new law. To be honest though, I don't understand why you all think it's so bad.

We all know smoking is bad for you, so it's not like people are being asked to give up something wonderful in order to become foster parents. Rather, if they want to foster, they need to stop smoking, and surely that can only be a good thing for their OWN health, as well as that of the child.

It's not impossible to stop smoking - why would they want to smoke anyway? It's socially frowned upon, it stinks, it's hazardous to health, it makes your teeth and fingers yellow....
why would anybody object to this law? I can't quite fathom it out.

Because it is an addiction and a very underestimated one. My Mam is dying of cancer, it's unlikely she will see this baby born. When she was diagnosed a couple of years ago she was advised not to try to give up as the side affects of fighting the addiction would make her feel a lot worse and be more detrimental to her health.

We all know smoking is bad for you, so it's not like people are being asked to give up something wonderful in order to become foster parents. Rather, if they want to foster, they need to stop smoking, and surely that can only be a good thing for their OWN health, as well as that of the child.

But it's nanny-state going a bit mad. People do lots of things that are bad for them but would be easy to give up. Should overweight people be banned from caring for children because they don't want to give up the takeaways that are 'bad for them'? Where does it stop?

If people have to show themselves to be some kind of Stepford-esque example of human perfection before they can care for children I fear no child in care will ever get to experience a loving home!

And this is why I'm vehemently against this law. We are already monitored far too much in this county. We have very few civil freedoms left.

It puts me in mind of the poem "First they came…" which is about the passiveness of some of Germany as the Nazi's came to power. This in itself is a little extreme to apply to this situation but poem has been adapted many times to reflect the way society is leaning,

Let them target the smokers, then the drinkers, then the junkfood eaters, then the telly addicts....really where is the line.

I whole heartedly agree that smoking around children is wrong and can understand why many people have such passionate views on it. But regarding it clinging to clothes and such, really... can they determine what is smoke clinging to your clothes from poisonous petrol fumes you walk you child home in? We will never see them banning motor vehicles. No this is just another fashionable ploy from the government to try to win favour.

What a fab post. I am not so clever as to write like this but I do agree with everything you say (well even though i'm a smoker.. i'm just an anti smoking smoker )

 

[purple13]

gah, i just don't know where i stand on this

one part of me thinks that if people want to foster children, then they should just give up smoking - that would be the best thing all round.

another part of me HATES the nanny state and resents government control over the minutiae of our lives.

surely what most foster children need is love and care - they're obviously in state care for a reason, be it an incapable parent, an unwell parent; whatever it is, the most important thing should be that someone provides them with love and security when they need it most.

does it matter if that love and security comes with cigarettes? IMHO i don't think so , not if the smokers stay outside and away from the children. its not perfect, but life isn't. however if the fosterers smoked 40 a day inside the house, i might feel a little differently.

as far as smoke fumes clinging to clothes go, well, does that mean that air fresheners, aerosols, shampoos containing sodium lauryl sulphate (i could go on...!) should all be banned from fosterers' homes too? the chemicals in these products may not be as well researched as cigarettes, but they are undeniably dubious as far as our long term health is concerned. and what about the food that they eat - should only organic health foods be allowed? should chocolate and mcdonalds be banned?

maybe i digress with my argument, but my quandry remains; where does sensible advice stop and government control begin?

BTW i love debate threads like this

 

[claire2711]

IMO...........

If they care enough to want to adopt/foster kids, they should care enough to quit the fags and provide a HEALTHY home for them.

I don't smoke, but am not anti-smoking. I don't let ANYONE smoke near LO, and never will. Smoking does disgusting things to people both inside and outside

 

[LisaJ1986]

Yes i do think society is getting a bit silly with what they are doing, but they are trying to do what is best for people.

I will always agree with Hennaly and Xena. I am very anti-smoking. I have seen and heard of numerous members of my family die young and horrible deaths due to smoking. I am the only member of my family that has never smoked and feel so strongly as i have seen people suffer. Then they get treated with the NHS funds to help them live longer due to something they could've controlled years ago.

But debates on smoking will always get heated, like the smoking ban in pubs and clubs! The amount of forums i got leapt on because i had no sympathy for the smokers that felt hard done by coz they couldn't smoke inside, yet before it was the non smokers that drew the short straw as they were forced to breathe it in! I turned down several nights out as i couldn't stand the smell on me and the dizzy feeling i got when out. They go outside now and they seem to have calmed over it.

When you find out you are pregnant do you not throw out that packet of fags and never smoke for the rest of the term? Easy, for the sake of that child. So why not do that for someone elses.

It's ok saying that you're breathing in petrol fumes on a daily basis so what's the problem with lingering smells but surely the less amount of fumes the better?

I am very passionate about this subject. The government only want the country to be a healthier place for all of us. I don't see what is wrong with that.

I plan to foster in the future, and hope i can give a child a loving and happy home.

 

[claire2711]

Yes i do think society is getting a bit silly with what they are doing, but they are trying to do what is best for people.

I will always agree with Hennaly and Xena. I am very anti-smoking. I have seen and heard of numerous members of my family die young and horrible deaths due to smoking. I am the only member of my family that has never smoked and feel so strongly as i have seen people suffer. Then they get treated with the NHS funds to help them live longer due to something they could've controlled years ago.

But debates on smoking will always get heated, like the smoking ban in pubs and clubs! The amount of forums i got leapt on because i had no sympathy for the smokers that felt hard done by coz they couldn't smoke inside, yet before it was the non smokers that drew the short straw as they were forced to breathe it in! I turned down several nights out as i couldn't stand the smell on me and the dizzy feeling i got when out. They go outside now and they seem to have calmed over it.

When you find out you are pregnant do you not throw out that packet of fags and never smoke for the rest of the term? Easy, for the sake of that child. So why not do that for someone elses.

It's ok saying that you're breathing in petrol fumes on a daily basis so what's the problem with lingering smells but surely the less amount of fumes the better?

I am very passionate about this subject. The government only want the country to be a healthier place for all of us. I don't see what is wrong with that.

I plan to foster in the future, and hope i can give a child a loving and happy home.

I agree totally Lisa

 

[daftscotslass]

IMO...........

If they care enough to want to adopt/foster kids, they should care enough to quit the fags and provide a HEALTHY home for them.

I don't smoke, but am not anti-smoking. I don't let ANYONE smoke near LO, and never will. Smoking does disgusting things to people both inside and outside

I agree with this. However...

I think if it was a question of two fosterers that fitted all the same criteria but one smoked and one didn't, I know which I would support. However the country is stuck for foster carers as it is and a law like this would do nothing but alienate good people who would be wonderful foster carers but they like the occasional puff in their back garden. In the current situation I don't think the government have the option to pick and choose in such a way.

 

[nazmomi]

I can't help but wonder about all of the children who will be in foster care when this law is introduced. Yes the article says that existing foster carers will be given help to quit but what if they cant?? Will the kids then be uprooted and placed somewhere else because to me that doesn't sound beneficial to the child.
I agree that smoking around kids is bad but this just seems extreme.