oslo

[Toonlass]

Of course no religion condones violence apart from when some believe that they are rewarded for killing themselves in the name of whoever it is they worship no matter how many people they kill in the process. Also I'm pretty sure Christianity doesn't condone violence but you get the Catholics and prodistants fighting in Ireland! Then this nutter in Oslo who claims to be Christian but still kills people coz he has concerns about islamic people. I think religion is used as excuse for evil lunatics to go round killing people and I'm sure if there was no religion they would find another excuse to do the same. But there is religion and that is usually the route of it.

I don't want to get into a religious debate coz I think it's all bollix. xx

 

[isobel84]

There's a diference between using religion as an excuse and religion to be the the cause of what's going on. Terrorists don't do what they do cuz there books or there god tell them to, they do it becouse of politics n probably because they think they r doing the right thing they think there god will save them.

It's bullshit to blame religion, the problem with this world is people don't acctually open there eyes, they look ar the BBC news n think they know what's going on in this world, they point there fingers n blame without knowledge.

And about getting in to a debatt about it, well if u make statements like that u can't expect much else. Xx

 

[isobel84]

Hi guys, I'm Norwegian (staying in England atm) and I've been watching the news all day today and yesterday.
The nation is shocked, and aparantly so is a lot of the rest of the world.

Religion was not behind it, but political ideologies. He claims he is a Christian, but based on these acts he is obviously not. It's been planned for months... It appears the bomb might have been just a distraction to let him more easily shoot down more people at the island. The victims at the Island were members of the Labour party youth organisation and they were having a youth camp/rally at the Island which they do every year. So far 85 youth have been confirmed killed by the shooting, 4-5 more are missing (many were in the water and were shot as they were swimming away from the island in an attempt to escape, so they are searching with divers and mini subs as there could be more victims in the water) The man behind it all is a right wing extreme-ist who is anti multiculturalism and very concerned about islamism. The labour party in many ways embrace multiculturalism... He sent out a manuscript of a book he's written only one hour before the attacks. The book is about his ideologies, about the attack, about how to spread the book and more. By the sound of what he writes in the book he is also not alone in all of this (alone in the terror attack, but not in his ideologies and goals) and that is what scares me the most. We can of course not know if that is true or if he just wants to spread more fear.

Another thing that freaks me out is that he didn't shoot himself after and that he surrendered himself to the police the moment they arrived at the Island. This is all very calculated and planned and not just the wild acts of a temporarily insane human being.

I could probably write about this for hours.. so I'll just stop there.. but if anyone have any answers please feel free to ask!

First of all I'm Swedish so it feels close to home even though its just as horrible where ever it happens. I hope that your family n friends are ok.
I hope this missing ppl will be found unharmed. But we all know that's not likely.
I think the reason he didn't kill himself was that he's trying to spread a message, this is a way to get the attention n what ever happened he will get exactly what ht wanted. He knew he would get caught.
xx

 

[AugustMum]

I actually agree with Toon 100%

Yes, people would find other things to fight about if therewas no religion but I would say that most of the time, it's about just that. Yes, terrorism is based on politics somewhat but their politics are based on religion and so they believe their doing things for their god, or because someone, somewhere in the world has offended their god (that really gets on my tits when they do that).

Its not just muslims though. Jewish people have got a hand in their its just not on the news all that much and in ireland with the chatholics and protestants. Im sure their are others but I cant think of them at the moment.

I know this attack was probably not religion based (although we still don't know why he did it and quite frankly, he will ever be able to jusitfy the horrific things hes done) but you can't say that religion is not at the bases of ALOT of wars and attacks. We don't use it as an excuse....they do.

 

[Toonlass]

There's a diference between using religion as an excuse and religion to be the the cause of what's going on. Terrorists don't do what they do cuz there books or there god tell them to, they do it becouse of politics n probably because they think they r doing the right thing they think there god will save them.

It's bullshit to blame religion, the problem with this world is people don't acctually open there eyes, they look ar the BBC news n think they know what's going on in this world, they point there fingers n blame without knowledge.

And about getting in to a debatt about it, well if u make statements like that u can't expect much else. Xx

Do one Isobel!

 

[pinkyprincess]

Shocking!

 

[isobel84]

There's a diference between using religion as an excuse and religion to be the the cause of what's going on. Terrorists don't do what they do cuz there books or there god tell them to, they do it becouse of politics n probably because they think they r doing the right thing they think there god will save them.

It's bullshit to blame religion, the problem with this world is people don't acctually open there eyes, they look ar the BBC news n think they know what's going on in this world, they point there fingers n blame without knowledge.

And about getting in to a debatt about it, well if u make statements like that u can't expect much else. Xx

Do one Isobel!

Very mature

 

[Toonlass]

I said I didn't want a debate, I was only giving my opinion but I guess my opinion must be wrong coz it doesn't match yours.

 

[isobel84]

I actually agree with Toon 100%

Yes, people would find other things to fight about if therewas no religion but I would say that most of the time, it's about just that. Yes, terrorism is based on politics somewhat but their politics are based on religion and so they believe their doing things for their god, or because someone, somewhere in the world has offended their god (that really gets on my tits when they do that).

Its not just muslims though. Jewish people have got a hand in their its just not on the news all that much and in ireland with the chatholics and protestants. Im sure their are others but I cant think of them at the moment.

I know this attack was probably not religion based (although we still don't know why he did it and quite frankly, he will ever be able to jusitfy the horrific things hes done) but you can't say that religion is not at the bases of ALOT of wars and attacks. We don't use it as an excuse....they do.

I think both "us" and "them" uses it as an excuse, but the main reason why they for an example crashed the twin towers was not cuz there Muslims, its cuz they had a problem with all the shit America do. They don't fight about religion nor cuz of it ( unless in a few.cases like u brought up when there rwligion gets offended)
Just cuz we know al queda is muslims there actions got nothing to do with Islam, its politics only.
Now when this man in Oslo did this, suddenly its not he was a Christian, it was "he CALLED himself Christia" did anyone say after September 11 there not Muslims, they just call themawlf that?
Xx

 

[isobel84]

I said I didn't want a debate, I was only giving my opinion but I guess my opinion must be wrong coz it doesn't match yours.[/QUOTE

If u don't want it, leave the thread, i started it n u made an comment like that, ofcourse I will respond. In my eyes its opinions like yours that devide people in this world. Leave the thread If it annoys u so much but keep your opinions to ur self if u find it hard with someone that don't always agre with you

 

[polo_princess]

Good old religion debate ... always brings out the best in people

 

[Piglet10]

i defo need a like buttong for u holly !! x

 

[Hope81]

i live in Norway, sad days for all of us

 

[polo_princess]

Hope, if its of any comfort to you, we are all right behind you guys

 

[Lewa]

I said I didn't want a debate, I was only giving my opinion but I guess my opinion must be wrong coz it doesn't match yours.

I just want to say in my defense as someone who is religious and a Norwegian it is just quite hurtful to be honest to read comments like that (blaming religion for all that is wrong in the world) after having been through (only emotionally of course, as far as I know I didn't know anyone who got hurt) all this the past few days. Because of my religion I work daily on being honest, true, chaste, righteous, kind, loving, forgiving etc, and certainly THAT is not what caused this to happen. It is not very tactful to just jump out and say that when we are still mourning what happened, especially since this is not based in any one particular religion, but in this mans messed up political views and ideologies. Yes, he is against Islam, but then Islam is not the problem, his attitude towards it and his solution on how to deal with his fear of Islam is what is the problem in this case. (Also, saying you don't want to discuss it because you see religion as bollix is not the most tactful way to avoid a debate either...)

I know many people say that religion is the source of all evil, but I think evil is the source of all evil, and it will use whatever means necessary to spread, and unfortunately those means are often religion. But the religion is not the cause, it is the tool...

And to isobel
I feel I have the right to say "called himself a Christian" because I've never refered to muslim terrorists as just muslims. I do not consider those terrorists real muslims, and I've been in endless discussions with people trying to stand up for and defend the muslims who are just trying to live good lives, I've tried to make others realise the difference between the religion and the few people twisting and distorting it to reach their sick goals.

I do still agree with what you say as I know this is also done in the media. Just as before they knew who did all this it was referred to as terrorism while now that we know it's a Norwegian man a lot of media refer to it as massmurder etc. This is of course not right. I am however glad that I can say that in the Norwegian media Anders Behring Breivik is referred to as a terrorist and what he did as terror deeds.

 

[isobel84]

That's absolutely fair enough, but reading your post I think u understand what I mean with the call himself Christian comment. If your a Christian u know what he did got nothing to do with bein christian, that's what my point is, it got nothing to do with religion. It's a twisted sick evil person that did this, just as the terrorists at Sep 11, got nothing to do with. Islam.
I think we r on the same track on this debatt, your wording it better then me, the problem is ppls attitude to religion for sure

 

[Lewa]

We're definitely on the same page here and I appreciate your posts on this thread Just wanted to "defend" or explain that wording as I can see why it would be criticised and in most cases rightfully so!

 

[inky]

Terrorists and fundamentalists use religion as an excuse. Politicians make the problem worse by blaming religion too, when really, it's the politicians and everyone who pulls their strings that cause most of the problems in this world. Most religions advocate peace, not war, regardless of what politicians and the BBC would have you believe. And no, I'm not religious at all, my faith lies in science.

My thoughts are with everyone in Norway at the moment, I have a lot of friends in Oslo (all accounted for thankfully) and was truly devastated when I heard about what happened x