Hubbie not happy at mum's forced baptism

[Squiglet]

I have a bit of a conundrum that I don't know how to solve, and I will have to give some history otherwise it won't make any sense.

My mother is a devout Catholic, she raised me as catholic..but at 14 after the church being wholly unable to support me and the treatment I received, I left the church and started my journey towards being a pagan. Now to my mother I am a devil worshipper... I always will be. It took her a long time to come to terms with it and if we ever discuss religion it always decends into a full blown argument so we just don't.

When my daughter came along I was adament that she would not be baptised. I wasn't going to lie to my mothers god that I would raise my child christian, because I am not going to do that and I have respect for other peoples relgions. It is wrong to make promises like that.

But my mother wasn't happy. According to her all babies are born with original sin and if they die before being baptised they go to purgatory (one of the levels of hell). Now I believe this to be utter tosh, a baby is an innocent and as I don't believe in hell it doesn't matter. So behind my back she takes my daughter one day and has her baptised!! Now I am the parent and this is going against my parental wishes regardless of the fact that I think it's all hogwash...she defied me then took great enjoyment in rubbing it in my face.

Now with this baby shes threatening to do it again. Last time I was on my own, this time I have a husband...and hubbie aint so pleased at this. He has said if a drop of holy water touches this baby's head then my mother will never see it again...and its about to decend in all out war.
plus he is from a protostant family and the will go spare at a catholic baptism.

Also my parents work as free child care atm...it would be an absolute disaster financially if this happens.

Now my mother had a couple of stokes in 1995 and since then she has always been aggressive and warlike, always needing to be right and going ahead and doing things as and when she wants to without thinking of concequences. I have tried explaining things to her, and she just brushes it off sayin she believes in her god and I believe in my devil and she will make sure that her grandchilds soul will be safe...

I know it sounds all stupid and ridiculous, but honestly what gets to me more is that my mother will defy my parental decisions and that she has so little respect for me. But I just feel like I have no choice as she will do it anyways then rub it in my face again. Also I don't want my family, hubbie and his family being at war with each other over something so silly. Does anyone have any ideas of what to do or what to say?.

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

As a fellow pagan ive come across this argument again and again and I really do sympathise

The way I see it you have 2 choices.

1 - Let your 2nd child be baptised and explain to your mother that your only doing it for her, because it means nothing to you so it really makes no difference, but you will explain to your child as she grows that it doesnt mean she has to follow that religion - she can follow any she chooses. Atleast then the matter can be dropped.

or 2 - Tell your mother if she continues to defy your parental choices, and potentially cause a family feud, then you will have to restrict her contact with your children as you are afraid she may be a bad influence. Also explain that if your child gets a bit older and SHE decided she wants to be baptised, you will let your mother handle it.

At the end of the day hun they are your children, and if my mother had got my child baptised even though I said I didnt want it I would have gone absolutely livid! Its got nothing to do with religion, its about respect!

Hope you come to some kind of agreement that doesnt cause to much aggro

 

[Squiglet]

Thank you glitzy..to me it seems all a little pointless...but my hubbies adament. I think I will try and explain that as the other family are protestant that she might cause an feud that way, I think she might be a littl more accepting of that... rather than respecting my wishes...which she won't anyways.

 

[NIE]

What a nightmare your are having babes. Religion has caused a lot of problems in my family too.

I was raised a catholic, my hubby prodestant, and we decided it suited us both to have a civil ceromony wedding. It all went well.

I can see where your mum comes from with protection by being baptised as a baby, but I agree with you that babies are innocent and pure.

My hubby and I have agreed that our child will be baptised and I will raise them as a catholic for as long as they want to be.

I would go crazy if anyone did that to my child behind my back. As you so rightly said you are the mother, and you deceide. Your husband obiously feels strongly about it too. I really don't know what to sugest.....I think no matter what you do, there will end up being an argument. One things for sure, It's what you and hubby want that is important and every other family member should accept it. xx

 

[NIE]

I forgot to say....I didn't think your mother would have been allowed to do that without your permission. I thought you needed to show a birth certificate or parental consent??????

Am I right...Does anyone know. xxx

 

[leckershell]

I don't know how these things work, but can you not get it changed back again, or changed to pagan the same as you through some sort of ceremony or something?

Sorry, I really don't know how it works but you must be able to get it changed somehow..?

 

[lotti77]

Nie ... you are absolutely correct!!!
Parental consent or birth cert needs to be shown The catholic church are bound by the normal confines of the law if this has been done without the BC being produced or parental consent then the batpitsm is void.
I only know this because I was raised devout Roman Catholic and was due to take my vows at 15 to become a nun (before I lost my faith)

 

[Squiglet]

Well I know my mum has my daughters birth certificate because she has a safe and we don't. But with this baby, because we got married in Spain and our child will essentially have to be registered with the Spanish authorities, they don't get birth certificates. We got a family book when we get married and all our children are registered in that book which becomes the equivilent of the birth certificate.

I know my mum got my daughter baptised by her local priest (UK) who was a good friend of hers too and knew all about me. But I think it might be a little more difficult here then (Spain is a nightmare for needing all i's dotted and all t's crossed) Thank you NIE and Lottie for that information, that has made me feel loads and loads better! I really don't know much about how baptism works I'm afraid.

 

[lauramumof2]

She should keep her nose out. Unless you actually belive in the catholic baptism then the baptism itself isnt really worth anything.

Also though, its nothing to do with your husbands family either.

Its between the 3 of you.

 

[babsi]

Neither me or my husband are religious and Kai was baptised in Argentina in May.

I was stupid in agreeing to it thinking it was one of those things that wouldn't happen but it did and I just had no choice in the situation. I only knew it was happening the day before it did.

It is a big tradition there to have it.

It's is just so frustrating when families get involved with certain things.

 

[jamiereed85]

I am a pretty devout christian...but also respect other peoples religions although I believe that christianity is truth for me because of accepting Jesus Christ as my savior.. but the fact that you disagreed and your mother did it anyway... is crazy!!! I can't believe she could be a devout catholic and be so vindictive (sp) and go behind your back...isn't that sin in itself? crazy...

Also... I can't believe how "formal" being baptized in the Catholic church is. For one... I don't believe in baptizing babies.... it should be a decision they make when they are older. I was raised baptist and was saved and baptized (my decision) when I was thirteen. It was an amazing day and I just walked up to my preacher during invitation at church one day and said I wanted to accept Jesus Christ into my life and to be baptized as a public profession of my faith.... and later I was baptized...no birth certificates...no laws... just a simple act of faith and courage....

I agree with you...babies are innocent. Children are innocent. It's only when they begin to learn right an wrong... the age of accountability is what I've heard people in baptist churches refer to it as. I don't know if it's the same everywhere. My God....would not send an innocent baby...a child of God to "purgatory" or any other kind of hell... That's just crazy to me.

Sorry...so long... I was just so shocked by all the formalities and what your mother did... I agree with GGG I would have been livid.

Stick to your guns girl! and allow your child to make an informed decision when they are old enough to understand faith... in whatever they choose to believe in.

 

[Squiglet]

I agree with that Jamiereed 100%. Religion is a childs decision once they reach the age of consent. I don't bring my child up in my religion because thats their belief not mine. And when she is of age and wishes to follow one religion or another I will go out of my way to help her.

And yes...I was absolutely livid at my mother for what she did to my first child and what she's planning on doing with the next one. Theres not much I can do though, because she will go behind my back and "baptise" the child herself. Something in the bible saying that anyone can preform a baptism (can't tell you as it's been a LONG time since I read it) But thankfully I do have some info now to say to her that a baptisim is not a baptisim without parental consent or the child's consent, which she will have niether

Other than that I don't really have much of a choice in what I do. She will be left with the child at some point, and my mother doesn't respect me full stop, so... I don't know I am going to rely on the fact that she has respect for DH's parents religion and will refrain from a Catholic baptism as they are Protestants.

 

[mrs_tommo22]

Im going to be honest and truthful with you all.I am not religeous, and have litte time for it.aia have been through too much in my life to believe other then what i know and see for myself.
I do not plan on getting my children christened even of it means them missing out on a chuch wedding.If they want to get christened or follow a religeon I will be leaving it up to them.

I will though be having a naming ceremony for them when my daughter is born so I can have a family get together and celebrate my childrens presense in this world without the need for religeon. It doesnt cause arguments and im not treading on anyones toes.

My family including my husnads family respect my desision to have naming ceremonies done, and im thankful for that.

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

its very refreshing to see people from different relgious backgrounds and with different strength of beliefs all agreeing that it is the childs desicion to make when they are old enough, very refreshing and hopefully a sign of the times

I am expecting a similar problem when we have a child as his family are muslims, im a spiritualist witch and OH is agnostic.

Ive met most of his family and while they are all very lovely they have already tried to persuade us to have a muslim wedding, and basically said "well you have to bring your children up muslim" um well actually we dont and we wont lol, but I would like them to learn from thier grandparents about Islam, because it is half of where they come from, but learn about it in an academic sense not a religious one, and I would like OH's family to be involved with that. Then if he/she decides to become a muslim when she is older, he will already know what Islam stands for and hopefully wont be swayed by all this extremism about today.

But.....we will also teach our child about spiritualism and my own beliefs and practices, and OH as an agnostic can teach him how to be open minded and questioning.

All sounds like a great plan, but who knows - he could convert to some prawn worshipping cult for all we know lol, but aslong as its his choice then thats all we need to know.

If OH parents try to get too involved then I will be putting my foot down, I think I handled the wedding and upbringing lecture pretty well and made my feelings clear enough without offending them, but we shall see.

Anyway the point of that waffle was to let you know that your not on your own with this inter-family-mixed-religion thing, please keep us updated!

 

[libs]

I refused to have Josh christened as a baby - we weren't raised with any religion, but my nan always insisted on babies being christened otherwise they don't "come on" or develop (yes she really is that old fashioned)- I pointed out that muslim countries etc didn't have a load of children still unable to walk and talk at 10 years old

But both DH and I are godparents to various children. We did wonder whether it was hypocritical and at one point I spoke to a vicar (friend's father). He asked us whether we believed in good and evil, whether we had raised our children with morals and to try and love others, and explained that was all that was expected of godparents, so we happily play our part at other's christenings.

I wasn't married in a church either (although I could have been) as again I thought it was wrong when I don't attend church