High testosterone

[kittykitchn]

High testosterone comes as part and parcel of PCOS apparently, but I thought the negative effect of high levels was hindering ovulation and normal cycles. Someone just said on another page that their doctor told them that high testosterone stops sperm from getting through into the uterus. I don't see how, but has anyone heard this? I can't find anything on Google

 

[phonixgirl]

Hmmm, really? I'm not sure but I guess it would explain why neither of us are pregnant! X

 

[kittykitchn]

Hmmm, really? I'm not sure but I guess it would explain why neither of us are pregnant! X

Exactly! It's not something I've read about though xx

 

[phonixgirl]

Me neither. Also, if it's to do with the uterus, howcome quite a lot of PCOS ladies get pregnant through IVF? Unless the IVF meds reduce the testosterone so that it works...

I hadn't really thought much about reducing my testosterone but maybe I should... I like the idea of sage and spearmint tea. X

 

[kittykitchn]

Me neither. Also, if it's to do with the uterus, howcome quite a lot of PCOS ladies get pregnant through IVF? Unless the IVF meds reduce the testosterone so that it works...

I hadn't really thought much about reducing my testosterone but maybe I should... I like the idea of sage and spearmint tea. X

The tea does sound good! A very natural way of doing it. I will ask my consultant next week about the sperm thing xx

 

[phonixgirl]

I just found this online:

"Most women with PCOS either do not ovulate at all or they ovulate irregularly. As a consequence, they usually experience delayed, absent or irregular menstruation. In addition, an inordinately high percentage of the eggs produced by PCOS women following ovulation induction tend to be chromosomally abnormal (aneuploid). Rather than being due to an intrinsic egg defect or being inherent in PCOS women, the poor egg quality is more than likely the result of overexposure to male hormones (predominantly testosterone) produced by the ovarian stroma. These two factors (ovulation dysfunction and poor egg quality) are the main reasons for the poor reproductive performance (infertility and an increased miscarriage rate) in PCOS women."

So maybe our eggs are just not good enough? Which would explain the success in IVF. Xxx

 

[kittykitchn]

I just found this online:

"Most women with PCOS either do not ovulate at all or they ovulate irregularly. As a consequence, they usually experience delayed, absent or irregular menstruation. In addition, an inordinately high percentage of the eggs produced by PCOS women following ovulation induction tend to be chromosomally abnormal (aneuploid). Rather than being due to an intrinsic egg defect or being inherent in PCOS women, the poor egg quality is more than likely the result of overexposure to male hormones (predominantly testosterone) produced by the ovarian stroma. These two factors (ovulation dysfunction and poor egg quality) are the main reasons for the poor reproductive performance (infertility and an increased miscarriage rate) in PCOS women."

So maybe our eggs are just not good enough? Which would explain the success in IVF. Xxx

Wow. That's a kick in the stomach. I wish that had been explained previously. But it CAN be improved because it's not a natural egg defect?
BUT, until it's improved... we've no hope..?

Can that really be true when so many women use clomid and get a BFP though?

 

[phonixgirl]

I have no idea. I did read something about PCOS generally that said Clomid would stimulate ovulation but, because of the way our ovaries are (develop lots of eggs which tend to not fully mature then are left as cysts), it might not be the best treatment. It gave the names of other meds that were better (I think it said injectibles were better, which are of course generally used with IVF).

Also, most PCOS ladies on Clomid are on metformin which can work wonders. Neither of us are on it (yet). X

 

[kittykitchn]

I have no idea. I did read something about PCOS generally that said Clomid would stimulate ovulation but, because of the way our ovaries are (develop lots of eggs which tend to not fully mature then are left as cysts), it might not be the best treatment. It gave the names of other meds that were better (I think it said injectibles were better, which are of course generally used with IVF).

Also, most PCOS ladies on Clomid are on metformin which can work wonders. Neither of us are on it (yet). X

And they've refused to prescribe me it! I'm currently talking to a friend on FB who has some left over after becoming pregnant (also PCOS), she said she'll send me them if I can't get it prescribed. I used to worry about taking a multivitamin, now I'm smuggling drugs, what have I turned into!

 

[phonixgirl]

Haha! They did refuse to give it to me until I got seen by a different doctor. Why are they refusing? They would normally try metformin before ovarian drilling (which hasn't even been mentioned to me). Is it because you aren't overweight or don't have excess body hair? That was why I had trouble getting it. Xxx

 

[kittykitchn]

Haha! They did refuse to give it to me until I got seen by a different doctor. Why are they refusing? They would normally try metformin before ovarian drilling (which hasn't even been mentioned to me). Is it because you aren't overweight or don't have excess body hair? That was why I had trouble getting it. Xxx

I don't even remember why to be honest. Not displaying symptoms sounds familiar though... I will definitely bring it up again, at least get a straight answer as to why I can't have it.
I saw a new GP last week who was absolutely lovely, she pondered about prescribing it - but as I'm under the fertility clinic now, it's up to them, so I have to ask my consultant directly (and now I bet he says no because of the drilling!) xx

 

[phonixgirl]

Hmm, probably. I know it's not ideal but you could always ask again in a few months? Also, is there anyone else you could see at the clinic? I booked a kind of emergency appointment and saw a female registrar. It was her who actually gave the diagnosis, the Provera and the metformin to start after my holiday. X

 

[kittykitchn]

Hmm, probably. I know it's not ideal but you could always ask again in a few months? Also, is there anyone else you could see at the clinic? I booked a kind of emergency appointment and saw a female registrar. It was her who actually gave the diagnosis, the Provera and the metformin to start after my holiday. X

I will see what he says on Thursday, and then maybe ask for a second opinion. I don't like him much anyway.

I'm really struggling to understand why my testosterone levels are so high when I'm an "ideal" weight and have a really good diet. I've been Googling all night and all it comes up with is obesity!

 

[phonixgirl]

I apparently have 'typical' hormone levels for someone with PCOS (even though I had previously been told everything looked 'fine') so I suspect my testosterone levels are also high. I weigh 8 stone and am 5'4".

Most people with PCOS are overweight but there is a 'lean' version. If you are overweight and have excess hair with no periods, you are likely to get diagnosed in your teenage years. If you don't tick all of those boxes, you will struggle. Most doctors' answer to PCOS is to lose weight as it is caused by insulin resistance. Many think you just can't have it if you are thin. Not true.

Apparently the 'lean' version is a different type and unfortunately harder to get rid of. Obviously we can't just lose weight. I read that lean PCOS is hereditary and, no matter what form you have, you will have some form of insulin resistance (no matter what doctors say), which is why metformin works for so many women. I have even seen women on forums who had lean PCOS, they were tested for insulin resistance and it came back ok, but the doctor gave them metformin anyway 'as it would do no harm'. They got pregnant.

 

[kittykitchn]

I apparently have 'typical' hormone levels for someone with PCOS (even though I had previously been told everything looked 'fine') so I suspect my testosterone levels are also high. I weigh 8 stone and am 5'4".

Most people with PCOS are overweight but there is a 'lean' version. If you are overweight and have excess hair with no periods, you are likely to get diagnosed in your teenage years. If you don't tick all of those boxes, you will struggle. Most doctors' answer to PCOS is to lose weight as it is caused by insulin resistance. Many think you just can't have it if you are thin. Not true.

Apparently the 'lean' version is a different type and unfortunately harder to get rid of. Obviously we can't just lose weight. I read that lean PCOS is hereditary and, no matter what form you have, you will have some form of insulin resistance (no matter what doctors say), which is why metformin works for so many women. I have even seen women on forums who had lean PCOS, they were tested for insulin resistance and it came back ok, but the doctor gave them metformin anyway 'as it would do no harm'. They got pregnant.

I am over weight compared to you lol
I guess I could still lose a few pounds. What is your diet like? Instead if taking metformin is better to lower insulin/testosterone levels naturally with no carb/no sugar diet?

 

[phonixgirl]

Metformin does you no harm as far as I know (although you may experience unpleasant side effects, particularly in the first week). It is quite hard (for some I would say impossible) to do it through diet and exercise alone so personally, I'd take the metformin, eat as much a low-carb and low-sugar diet as possible and exercise (lifting light weights is supposed to be good for PCOS; I have read conflicting advice as to whether intense or moderate workouts are best). This is my post-holiday plan lol. No potatoes, no white pasta/bread/rice, no sugary foods, and go to the gym regularly. I have my IVF refresher the day after we get back from hols (Oct 2nd) so we should have treatment soon after (I am having the endometrial scratch which may delay things by a month or two). I will also have acupuncture the IVF cycle. X

 

[littletwix]

Girls, if you're not being put on metformin try inositol supplementation as an alternative. I used it and it regulated my cycles and I got my bfp. I took a teaspoon a day (actually maybe it was two) in a tiny bit of water.

If you go to scholar.google.com you'll find lots of articles on it and pcos. It improves egg (oocyte) quality too.

 

[kittykitchn]

Girls, if you're not being put on metformin try inositol supplementation as an alternative. I used it and it regulated my cycles and I got my bfp. I took a teaspoon a day (actually maybe it was two) in a tiny bit of water.

If you go to scholar.google.com you'll find lots of articles on it and pcos. It improves egg (oocyte) quality too.

I started it last week - wish I had sooner. Does it lower testosterone? Or just regulate?
What dose are you taking? I want to make sure Im taking enough!
Ohh, and how long before it started to work?

 

[littletwix]

That's great that you started I think I o'ed about 10 days after I first took it. Trying to log into fertilityfriend but I can't remember by password to check...

I think my cycles went something like 80 days, 45 days, 35 days, 32 days.

I think it does lower testosterone. I noticed an improvement in my skin too! It might have curbed my appetite too which was great be careful you don't take too much in one go, it can give you a sicky tummy, if you know what I mean... Probably best to take one dose (teaspoon) in the morning and another in the evening.

 

[littletwix]

In regulating your hormones I think it lowers testosterone, if you know what I mean