Grandfather inappropriate or I'm paranoid?

[Mrbump83]

My lg is 20 months today,
Her grandfather creeps me out!! We got on okay before my daughter arrived but since she was little he has wolf whistled and called her sexy a number of times, forced hugs etc ( even though I shouted at him)
I became quite paranoid about this and his desire for her to kiss him hello, goodbye etc a bit too much.

Do you think this is inappropriate or am I being picky?
It's just, I've spoke to a professional about it but I can't get it off my mind and would like a mothers/fathers opinion. Her grandmother texted tonight asking for photos by whatsap ( they live quite far away) and I don't want to send any

 

[Lilmisshopeful]

I'm presuming it's your oh parents?
It's hard to judge not being there but I will say when I get my little boy dressed I say woo woo sexy to him and I'm being in no means inappropriate. We have family who live some way away and don't see often and he gets cuddles like it or not from everyone lol and everyone wants a kiss and hug hello and good bye. I think it's all sounding perfectly normal but as mothers we worry even more so when mothers to little girls xxx

 

[flisstebbs]

I went to a lecture by a forensic pathologist who worked in child abuse. The "feeling creepd out" was discussed at length. Whilst completely non specific and often unprovable, in this guys opinion it was an important sign. My hubby's dad has sadly passed away so not much basis for comparison but all the male relatives tend to be over appropriate if anything and avoid saying or doing anything that could be misinterpreted. (I have often thought this is an elaborate ruse to avoid nappies!)

I would probably grit my teeth and ignore unless something more overt but at same time avoid letting my little girl be in a situation alone with him. Equally you can choose the pics you send so ones of face etc. Be very careful of who or how you talk about this though as it is very emotive and when it's just a feeling it's very difficult to act. Just keep alert.

Btw I am probably more paranoid than most as I have child protection training!

What's been the response previously from him/oh when you shouted?

 

[Mrbump83]

My oh was with me and felt something was wrong but since having our son feels he treats the son the same way and now isn't as worried.
He thought I was in the right shouting.

I walked into living room to find him forcing her to sit on his lap and cuddle him with her fighting hard to get out and tears rolling down her face. I just shouted to let her go.
He also grabbed her face and forced her to kiss him and now she's frightened spotless of him and cries when arrives.

He also asked if he could take her for a walk I said no, I went upstairs to put clothes away, came back and they were gone. Grandmother said he had taken her out, I ran out looking for them, nothing. 15 minutes later he returned and said he had been at bottom of the road looking at cars, I said I went down and couldn't see them, he then said he took her to a further away road to see lorries passing.

After that she developed stranger fear of certain men, stopped eating and stopped talking as much ( hence we went to a professional)
I think him taking her when she is so frightened of him scared the life out of her

His actions and her reactions just creep and freak me out.
I'm not saying any untoward happened as I have no idea but I feel this gut feeling to protect them when his around
I don't want to feel like his as his her grandad but I can't help it!!

 

[littlemonkey]

To be honest, the behaviour you've described in your second post about forcing hugs and kisses sounds like a few elderly relations I know, mainly female and I wouldn't necessarily consider it to be anything more sinister than overbearing. It's very difficult to judge because we don't know this person. Has there been any behaviour before having kids that gave you the creeps?

Having said all that, he's obviously behaving in a way that has upset your daughter and just forcing well meant kisses and cuddles is enough to distress a toddler. Do they know about how upset she has been and that you had to take her to get professional help? What has their reaction been?

I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping her out of an environment that's upset her for a while. I've just this weekend decided to put a ban on taking my boys to my parents house. It's a totally different issue, but my toddler turns into the devil child there and I know it's because of certain situations arising there. My parents aren't happy, but I've still said they can visit the boys here. You just need to do what you think is best for your kids and if your FIL is upsetting your daughter, then stay away for a while.

 

[tinselcat]

I read a really good article of late that advocated respecting your child's boundaries and not forcing them to be hugged/kissed against their will. Sadly I can't find it, but there are plenty of other articles as food for thought:

http://www.popsugar.com/moms/Why-Your-Child-Should-Never-Forced-Hug-Relative-27334392
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/20/living/give-grandma-hug-child/
http://picklebums.com/please-dont-kiss-me/

I'd say, go with your instinct. He's not just cuddling against her will, he's using inappropriate sexual language/noises as well. On top of that, it sounds like your daughter finds his behaviour extremely distressing. As her mother, you're the one who is her first protector (if you won't stop it, then who would?) so if you feel it's wrong then I believe it's right to step in - her grandad will have to learn to back down.

Perhaps you could have a quiet word with him (or get your OH to?) to explain that you consider the term "sexy" inappropriate to a young girl. He may say it 'innocently' (I don't see how wolf-whistling could be considered innocent) but IMO there are predators out there who could capitalise on a girl who has been exposed to this sort of behaviour and think it's normal because grandad does it. Most reasonable people would go "oh sorry, I didn't realise that, of course I'll stop doing it" if this was pointed out assertively/gently to them. The fact that your daughter is becoming withdrawn and eating less is a massive red flag.

There are plenty of people who say what I consider inappropriate things to young children and mean nothing of it (e.g. a baby signing instructor who said to a babbling baby boy who smiled in her direction "are you flirting with me?") but I believe children should have their innocence protected over and above an adult's potentially hurt feelings (and quite frankly your daughter's hurt feelings and growing fear of men are much more important!!).

You would also be sending a powerful message to your little girl that if she feels something is wrong, to listen to her inner self and not tolerate other people's bad behaviour. As someone who has experienced numerous abusive relationships, trust me this is important!

So I'm wholeheartedly with you on this xx

 

[Holi]

My girl is just over 2 and from a very young age has been petrified of men (other than daddy and certain friends/uncles) in particular the granddads!! Scream blue murder when they went near here! Neither of them had done anything to warrant this reaction and i did feel bad for them both! My fil would sometimes try and force the situation and pick her up and take her for a chocolate biscuit and it would always end in her being traumatised! I did have to say to him to stop forcing himself on her and she would warm up in her own time - which he did and sure enough she has! I would tell the grandad to stop forcing himself on her and have a less physical approach with her (maybe just sitting near her playing with toys) will hopefully win her round

Just wanted to give you an example of kids not liking certain people without it being sinister!

And with regards to him calling her sexy and wolf whistling - I suppose it all depends on the situation! When I undress rosie for a bath I often say things like that and shout 'look at your little bum!' She finds it hilarious and runs around naked - but if your not happy with it just ask him to stop using that phrase.

What does your oh feel about it all? After all it's his dad, does he think it's innocent?? He will most likely know is dads mannerisms and will know if it's odd behaviour or if it's 'just dad being dad' - not saying that makes it ok, it just helps distinguish what's really going on

Some older people use some funny phrases! I told my mil the other day that I hadn't hoovered in ages and she turned round and called me a slut! (In jest!) but I was a bit taken aback with the word slut!! Haha x

 

[mylullaby]

I don't think anyone should be forced to kiss someone else against their will. If a child doesn't want to, leave them be. You wouldn't do it to an adult would you?! So why is it more acceptable with children? I'm not saying it's a sexual thing necessarily, just that he's clearly making your child feel uncomfortable and if she doesn't want to kiss him, she shouldn't have to - for me that would apply whether she was 18 months, 8 years old or 25!!! I would go with my gut if I were you. He doesn't have to be molesting your daughter for you to find his behaviour inappropriate. I get that many of us have memories of those overbearing relatives planting sloppy kisses on us as kids, but honestly if it's making her cry, it is not ok. You're not making a fuss about nothing here hunni and you're well within your rights to lay a few ground rules. Having said that, I wouldn't have a problem sending a couple of pics to mil xx

 

[TTT]

Lots of great advice already.

As a mother, I would be as uncomfortable as you and I wouldn't allow him to behave like that. I would speak to my husband first and ask him to either speak yo him or if he was happy for me to speak to him.

My grandad was convicted of abusing my two cousins when he was an elderly man (that's when he was convicted, the offences were years previously when my cousins were small children). He was an extremely cold man. On visits he would offer everyone a cup of tea then barley speak a word and we would watch tv while my parents made small talk. He showed no affection whatsoever. So your father in laws behaviour isn't necessarily indicating that he has the potential to be a paedophile, however, you have every right to tell him you don't like him making your daughter upset and it is up to you if you don't wish for him to be left alone with her.

My advice, speak up because if there was even the tiniest chance something were to happen, you wouldn't be able to live with yourself for not trusting your gut instinct. But speak to your oh, don't put your marriage on the line by going about it all guns a blazing.

 

[tinselcat]

He also asked if he could take her for a walk I said no, I went upstairs to put clothes away, came back and they were gone. Grandmother said he had taken her out

Just re-read your post and noticed this. Sounds like he is not only not respecting your daughter's boundaries, he is violating your own. If you say no, he should toe the line (or at least try to negotiate for a yes).

No wonder you feel uncomfortable about his behaviour as he has already demonstrated that you cannot trust him.

He may act similarly with your baby son as per your daughter, but I don't see that's a reason to put you at ease. He may not be a sexual predator but he is not respecting you in front of your children and I think there are many elements of things on here you may need to address & that would be better to sooner rather than later (probably in an adult-only environment).

Hugs xx

 

[OMGbabyno3]

I think everyone else's comments are very good, and I largely agree.

I don't have anything the same, but my FIL calls our girls his girlfriends and asks them to be his girlfriend. We hate this. It creeps us out, but I don't have a bad gut feel of it.

As for forcing kissed etc. I hated that as a kidnap I don't want people to do it to mine. When someone is trying to kiss them and they don't want to, I say to the child...you don't have to if you don't want to.

I have one more eager uncle too. He was with me-not inappropriate but a bit more forceful. It's awkward.

I think what annoyed me most about your post was that he took her out when you had specifically said no. That is a blatant breech of trust and undermining. That would have really pissed me off.

Good luck x

 

[flisstebbs]

He also asked if he could take her for a walk I said no, I went upstairs to put clothes away, came back and they were gone. Grandmother said he had taken her out, I ran out looking for them, nothing. 15 minutes later he returned and said he had been at bottom of the road looking at cars, I said I went down and couldn't see them, he then said he took her to a further away road to see lorries passing.

After that she developed stranger fear of certain men, stopped eating and stopped talking as much ( hence we went to a professional)
I think him taking her when she is so frightened of him scared the life out of !

Agree with the previous posts on this. I would be beyond angry if someone took off either of my kids if I had said no!

 

[kumber]

I agree with the others, it's extremely inappropriate for any adult to call any child sexy imo let alone wolf whistle. A parent saying wit woo is a completely different situation I think. I would be having serious words and, if it would make your daughter feel happier, a refusal to visit this grandparent or have heavily, heavily supervised visits in the future. He is undermining you frequently it seems, and at the expense of your daughter's happiness which is just not on. Go with your instinct on this - abuse isn't just physical, it can be mental too and I agree that in situations like this, she does not and should not have to put up with being in an uncomfortable position just because she is a girl.

 

[T84]

Even reading your op made me go cold! Regardless of whether his behaviour is innocent or not, anything that made me feel uncomfortable regarding my daughter - especially sexually - would ring alarm bells and I would HAVE to act on it.

Taking your daughter without permission is a massive no no and defo needs addressed.

I do however think you have to tread carefully. Until you know facts otherwise I would just be wary. As someone said, be selective on what you send and be wary of leaving her on her own until you feel better about the situation. I don't envy you cos it's my worst nightmare!

 

[bigbee]

I don't have much more to add to the posts above, but I would like to just say that if you're sending photos, you can always send pictures of your daughter and you (and/or your husband) in them, rather than of your daughter alone.

I have read something about posting pictures of kids online, and that was one advice.

 

[Orion]

I'd say go with your gut. If you feel the need to protect your kids against someone, family or not, then do it. Make it clear that they're to listen when your kids or you say no to something, and if they don't listen, they won't be invited back.

If anyone took my child out my house when I said no, I would go absolutely ballistic.

It doesn't have to be a sexual argument, but that they're creating psychological problems for your daughter by not treating her the way she wants to be treated. And that has to end.

 

[Mrbump83]

Thank you everyone for your posts!!
I'm overwhelmed by the support, honesty and advice.

I spoke to my OH and his agreed when they next visit we will talk to them together, we've agreed no more unsupervised time in anyway and that if he takes her without asking again it will be their last visit with their grandchildren.

I call my little girl cute butt etc and I have no problems with anything like that, it's the way in which it is said. Like a man leering to an adult woman

I hate the knots in my stomach when I see him approach her, but I also know they are there for a reason!

She gets on great with her other grandfather, who has black hair and a few grey, young men etc
She's just frightened of tall grey haired men!

Thank you again!
Frightened of the talk but she's my number one and they can sod off

 

[Mrbump83]

I'm not going down the sexual route with the talk either.

As my mind may be playing with me as I see everything he does now as a potentionally annoying thing
But rather how he should be treating her!

 

[Bonfire Bride]

It's definitely an awkward one but definitely trust your instinct. Hope the talk goes okay...you may find that he doesn't realise the way in which his actions come across and how they upset your daughter. Hopefully this will be enough to curb the behaviour.

I would react in exactly the same way you have. xx

 

[northerngirl]

I think you're doing the right thing, if he's making you and especially your daughter uncomfortable in any way at all, he needs to stop.
I would be extremely uncomfortable if another person called my child sexy, especially a man. Call your own children what you want but when it's someone else's child I just don't think it's appropriate.
It sounds like you've been very polite with him so far so it might be time to start putting your foot down now and telling him frankly how you feel.
Good luck with the talk! xo