i believe this 100%...and i believe every word on this page

[breezee1984]

this was taken from a friends page

When women experience the loss of a child, one of the first things they discover they have in common is a list of things they wish no one had ever said to them. The lists tend to be remarkably similar. The comments are rarely malicious - just misguided attempts to soothe.

This list was compiled as a way of helping other people understand pregnancy loss. While generated by mothers for mothers, it may also apply similarly to the fathers who have endured this loss.
When trying to help a woman who has lost a baby, the best rule of thumb is a matter of manners: don't offer your personal opinion of her life, her choices, her prospects for children. No woman is looking to poll her acquaintances for their opinions on why it happened or how she should cope.

-Don't say, "It's God's Will." Even if we are members of the same congregation, unless you are a cleric and I am seeking your spiritual counseling, please don't presume to tell me what God wants for me. Besides, many terrible things are God's Will, that doesn't make them less terrible.

-Don't say, "It was for the best - there was probably something wrong with your baby." The fact that something was wrong with the baby is what is making me so sad. My poor baby never had a chance. Please don't try to comfort me by pointing that out.

-Don't say, "You can always have another one." This baby was never disposable. If had been given the choice between loosing this child or stabbing my eye out with a fork, I would have said, "Where's the fork?" I would have died for this baby, just as you would die for your children.

-Don't say, "Be grateful for the children you have." If your mother died in a terrible wreck and you grieved, would that make you less grateful to have your father?

-Don't say, "Thank God you lost the baby before you really loved it." I loved my son or daughter. Whether I lost the baby after two weeks of pregnancy or just after birth, I loved him or her.

-Don't say, "Isn't it time you got over this and moved on?" It's not something I enjoy, being grief-stricken. I wish it had never happened. But it did and it's a part of me forever. The grief will ease on its own timeline, not mine - or yours.

-Don't say, "Now you have an angel watching over you." I didn't want her to be my angel. I wanted her to bury me in my old age.

-Don't say, "I understand how you feel." Unless you've lost a child, you really don't understand how I feel. And even if you have lost a child, everyone experiences grief differently.

-Don't tell me horror stories of your neighbor or cousin or mother who had it worse. The last thing I need to hear right now is that it is possible to have this happen six times, or that I could carry until two days before my due-date and labor 20 hours for a dead baby. These stories frighten and horrify me and leave me up at night weeping in despair. Even if they have a happy ending, do not share these stories with me.

-Don't pretend it didn't happen and don't change the subject when I bring it up. If I say, "Before the baby died..." or "when I was pregnant..." don't get scared. If I'm talking about it, it means I want to. Let me. Pretending it didn't happen will only make me feel utterly alone.

- Don't say, "It's not your fault." It may not have been my fault, but it was my responsibility and I failed. The fact that I never stood a chance of succeeding only makes me feel worse. This tiny little being depended upon me to bring him safely into the world and I couldn't do it. I was supposed to care for him for a lifetime, but I couldn't even give him a childhood. I am so angry at my body you just can't imagine.

-Don't say, "Well, you weren't too sure about this baby, anyway." I already feel so guilty about ever having complained about morning sickness, or a child I wasn't prepared for, or another mouth to feed that we couldn't afford. I already fear that this baby died because I didn't take the vitamins, or drank too much coffee, or had alcohol in the first few weeks when I didn't know I was pregnant. I hate myself for any minute that I had reservations about this baby. Being unsure of my pregnancy isn't the same as wanting my child to die - I never would have chosen for this to happen.

-Do say, "I am so sorry." That's enough. You don't need to be eloquent. Say it and mean it and it will matter.

-Do say, "You're going to be wonderful parents some day," or "You're wonderful parents and that baby was lucky to have you." We both need to hear that.

-Do say, "I have lit a candle for your baby," or "I have said a prayer for your baby." Do send flowers or a kind note - every one I receive makes me feel as though my baby was loved. Don't resent it if I don't respond. Don't call more than once and don't be angry if the machine is on and I don't return your call. If we're close friends and I am not responding to your attempts to help me, please don't resent that, either. Help me by not needing anything from me for a while. If you're my boss or my co-worker:

-Do recognize that I have suffered a death in my family - not a medical condition.

-Do recognize that in addition to the physical aftereffects I may experience, I'm going to be grieving for quite some time. Please treat me as you would any person who has endured the tragic death of a loved one - I need time and space.

DO understand if I do not attend baby showers/christening/birthday parties etc. And DON'T ask why I can't come.

Please don't bring your baby or toddler into the workplace. If your niece is pregnant, or your daughter just had a baby, please don't share that with me right now. It's not that I can't be happy for anyone else, it's that every smiling, cooing baby, every glowing new mother makes me ache so deep in my heart I can barely stand it. I may look okay to you, but there's a good chance that I'm still crying every day. It may be weeks before I can go a whole hour without thinking about it. You'll know when I'm ready - I'll be the one to say, "Did your daughter have her baby?" or, "How is that precious little boy of yours? I haven't seen him around the office in a while."

Above all, please remember that this is the worst thing that ever happened to me. The word "miscarriage" is small and easy. But my baby's death is monolithic and awful. It's going to take me a while to figure out how to live with it. Bear with me.

 

[katyk]

That's a lot of 'don'ts' tho lol, I agree with some but also no-one is perfect and we can't expect people never to inadvertently say something upsetting. If this helps people be helpful, that's good I suppose.

- Don't say, "It's not your fault." It may not have been my fault, but it was my responsibility and I failed. The fact that I never stood a chance of succeeding only makes me feel worse. This tiny little being depended upon me to bring him safely into the world and I couldn't do it. I was supposed to care for him for a lifetime, but I couldn't even give him a childhood. I am so angry at my body you just can't imagine.

I don't agree with this one. We may sometimes feel it's our fault while we are grieving, but that's not true. It's not usually our fault and to have someone remind us of that (assuming perhaps that they haven't said it with no prompting) is usually good.

-Don't say, "Well, you weren't too sure about this baby, anyway." I already feel so guilty about ever having complained about morning sickness, or a child I wasn't prepared for, or another mouth to feed that we couldn't afford. I already fear that this baby died because I didn't take the vitamins, or drank too much coffee, or had alcohol in the first few weeks when I didn't know I was pregnant. I hate myself for any minute that I had reservations about this baby. Being unsure of my pregnancy isn't the same as wanting my child to die - I never would have chosen for this to happen.

Well I agree with this 100%...especially a person who lost a baby at 14 when she was to young to be prepared for a child, and when she shares her experience and feelings from that time, someone says 'I won't talk to you again ever' or something

 

[breezee1984]

yes well, when a women says it wasnt wanted to begin with, then it makes it a fact right?

also if you could understand the quote in "it wasnt your fault" youd understand why i am the way i am sometimes

 

[jenna]

i agree with midna

 

[lisa&alex]

midna you took the words right out of my mouth!

my personal opinion,
im sorry breezee, but you cant tell us how to react to you, what to and not to say. you are obviously looking for specific reactions here (or rather to other posts) and we are obviously not giving them to you.

perhaps your friends on your other forum are doing a better job? than us? we have and are trying to support you, but you are making it very difficult.
i see that being friends with others who have lost can be supporting, this do's and dont's list seems extreamly depressive to me, and gives even more reason to stay depressed and caught up in it all. i dont really know what to say to you, other than this. i feel that we have exhausted our support and guidance, everything we have said is wrong.

 

[Tiffy]

I agree with a lot of this. I remember a time where, after miscarrying, this would have brought me to tears, just knowing someone understood exactly the pain that I did, and wrote something like that - understood why I couldn't cope with certain things at the moment. Now, it does touch me and makes me feel very sad, but in a healed way.



Breezee, I understand why you have had difficulty accepting some things people on here are saying, and your anger. You need understanding and acceptance with this, and patience from the people around you. You are grieving deeply, and in a way a lot of people don't experience. Not better or worse, but just differently - and I think in a VERY similar way as myself. At least, from what I've read.

Just try to remember that we care enough to respond. I know it's hard, but there are people out there who do understand. You will heal, but that healing starts with you. Maybe not today or tomorrow... but just lean on that thought, alright?

Much love and care,
Tiffany

 

[glitzyglamgirl]

Personally I think thats a great post, and it brings back many memories of how I felt when I lost my boy. People say things that they think you want to hear, they think will make you feel better, when it just makes you feel worse.

However, I have been guilty of saying these things myself, as even though I went through it myself, we do sometimes forget how these things made us feel - forgetting those feelings is part of the recovery process.

As far as I can see Breezee, you are trying to explain why you react the way you do sometimes, and I respect and appreciate that. Maybe a little tact might be in order on occasions though, from both sides.

I am truly sorry for what you've been through Breezee

 

[Tiffy]

.
As far as I can see Breezee, you are trying to explain why you react the way you do sometimes, and I respect and appreciate that. Maybe a little tact might be in order on occasions though, from both sides.

I am truly sorry for what you've been through Breezee

That is exactly what I saw in her post, too. I didn't see her trying to show us how to comfort her or talk to her, but more as how she feels inside. It is so hard to really express your needs, and this was a good way I think we can all identify with.

I have been absolutely CRUEL due to grieving myself. Not on here, but to my partner, and myself. But that is all a part of the process.

 

[Tracey S]

Sometimes people do have accidents and get pregnant, but i feel that no baby is truly 'uwanted'. Yes it may be a shock, but when people get used to the situation and get over the shock I would bet a pound to a penny that every baby would be wanted and loved.

I feel that you are being unfair. You are lashing out at people who are trying to help you. Also that list said that you dont want to hear people's stories who have had it 'worse' than you. Well I have had it worse than you Breezee and you dont see me going round the forums feeling sorry for myself and throwing support back in members faces.

Everyone on this board has lost and is hurting, we need to be suopporting each other.

Tracey xx

 

[Tiffy]

People deal with grief in different ways, Tracy. There are plenty of people out there whp are dying and gone through worse crap than any of us have, but that is BEYOND THE POINT. She is hurting and in a great deal of pain, and yes, we all have, and no, not all of us react the same way.

That doesn't make her better or worse than us.

Breezee has been tactless and yes, she has lashed out. But let's try to remember what pain she is feeling, and be empathetic. Her words are words of pain. Of course they're wrong, and we shouldn't take it... but isn't understanding a very important thing she needs right now?

Or maybe I am just too compassionate.

 

[katyk]

Just to make it clear I didn't feel that brezee's post was directed at telling us off on the board, it was more about how people sometimes respond in the outside world who perhaps haven't been through the same experience themselves.

 

[lisa&alex]

People deal with grief in different ways, Tracy. There are plenty of people out there whp are dying and gone through worse crap than any of us have, but that is BEYOND THE POINT. She is hurting and in a great deal of pain, and yes, we all have, and no, not all of us react the same way.

i do hope that tracy doesnt get angry at this.

personally, in my opinion tracy has had a massive loss. more than i think i could have handled, i feel more than many women have been through, she has more right to respond to this list than me. and personlly i dont think it was very nice to say that more people got through worse c*ap than her.. sorry.

 

[Tiffy]

People deal with grief in different ways, Tracy. There are plenty of people out there whp are dying and gone through worse crap than any of us have, but that is BEYOND THE POINT. She is hurting and in a great deal of pain, and yes, we all have, and no, not all of us react the same way.

i do hope that tracy doesnt get angry at this.

personally, in my opinion tracy has had a massive loss. more than i think i could have handled, i feel more than many women have been through, she has more right to respond to this list than me. and personlly i dont think it was very nice to say that more people got through worse c*ap than her.. sorry.

In my opinion, if you can't take Breezee's responses (which I DO NOT BLAME ANY OF YOU FOR, AT ALL!!!) then you really just shouldn't enter her threads. I understand really well that a lot of yuo have tried hard to give her support, and it just causes her to respond bitterly, I think it would be best for both sides to just not go there, you know? I think it's really wonderful, how many people are willing to try and help her, but Breezee obviously isn't ready to face these things just yet. She needs to find some peace within herself first... and it shouldn't be anyone who is taking on the blame and hurt that she feels.

I don't mean this to sound upsetting, so please don't take this the wrong way. I think we should just send her hugs and not say anything that could be taken upsettingly. She is in a very sensitive place. And if you feel like you aren't in the place to offer her that (again, if you feel like you're not, that is definately no fault of yours... at all) then leaving her alone would actually be a blessing.

And I have no idea what Tracy has been through, and that really isn't the point. Perhaps Tracy dealt her losses a lot differently, and yes, they could be extremely intense and worse than many woman here, but that doesn't change the fact that BREEZEE has had losses too. I find it incredibly wrong to try and judge losses and say, "This is worse than this, and because this person dealt with THEIR loss better, which was so much worse, you should suck it up." That isn't how it works. We're all different.

I believe that Tracy is very strong, and so is any woman who has dealt with loss and made it out alive, and without bitterness (in the end). But that is just... beyond the point.


I really hope none of you take this the wrong way. I am not taking anyone's side, I am trying to see it from the middle ground. Breezee does need professional help. I know she has said some things to people here I consider AMAZING people.

 

[katyk]

And I have no idea what Tracy has been through, and that really isn't the point. Perhaps Tracy dealt her losses a lot differently, and yes, they could be extremely intense and worse than many woman here, but that doesn't change the fact that BREEZEE has had losses too. I find it incredibly wrong to try and judge losses and say, "This is worse than this, and because this person dealt with THEIR loss better, which was so much worse, you should suck it up." That isn't how it works. We're all different.

I for one am not judging Breezee's feelings, yes some people struggle more with grief than others, but there comes a point where you have to say 'I am not dealing with this in a healthy way, a loss is hard for anyone but this is a sign that I'm not just grieving, there are deeper problems that I've had for months, which to an extent I admit to, and have been visible in my posts for a lot of the time, and I'm not very well.'

You say you grieved in the same way OZ but you seem ok (I'm sure you still grieve, but you don't seem 'ill' in your posts.)

Lots of us have suffered with depression so it's nothing to be ashamed of, as long as people do something to help themselves, but if they don't and just go on to others for months, the sad thing is that people get frustrated and give up, because they're not being paid for it at the end of the day, so they have their limits of energy and annoyance etc.

Yes we could ignore her posts, but people get annoyed at someone whingeing rather than sorting themselves out. Also she is asking for attention.

Some people we as individuals may have more tolerance for, there's a lady on my own forum who has been booted off other forums (mainly run by men ) for being too needy, but I personally don't find her always annoying. Just with different people we have more patience, there's no real reason for that other than the random interaction of personalities, and if someone has more patience for a particular person than others do, good'oh and go for it and make time for that person.

 

[Tiffy]

I do not think ill of the people who simply feel like they can't help Breezee anymore. Like you said, some people have more patience with certain people. It all depends on who you are, and so many other things. It's just, I think we all need to stop and ask ourselves whether our comments are going to affect breezee in a positive or negative way. If you feel that you just can't offer anything that she will take positively, then backing out of her threads is for the best.

For me, I suffered from depression so severe after my loss, that I did not leave my house for literally months on end. I became so secluded that I didn't even know how to speak to people anymore, and when I did, I would hurt them. Lashing out always got me a negative response, and I think that, inside, is what I craved. I wanted to punish myself and the best way to do it, was to make people hate me. Because I wanted to be loved. Do you understand what I mean?

I am just trying to give Breezee exactly what, inside, I wanted. My own experience is all I have to go by, just as any other of you.

You're all great people just for being here and trying, but please girls. Just give her this and only this:


If you feel you simply can't, that is alright too. We are not professionals, and we all need to know when to protect ourselves and leave.

 

[breezee1984]

i havent done anything to any of you... your making this stuff up from the last time i got heaveily depressed...i made a mistake even coming back to a forum full of self righteous people!
I have a babyloss website absolutly full of wonderful women(where i got this list from another girl even!!!) and they treat me a thousand time s better
good riddance to you all, as i can deal with this without criticism and hateful bitter hurtful responses....go on and bicker among yuorselves im leaving

 

[Tiffy]

Well Breezee, I am really glad you found some supportive people who you can really connect with. Stay safe and try taking care of yourself.

If you need someone to talk to, I am here. My email is [email protected].

 

[floppit]

Breezee,

What I'm going to write is more about when tragic things happen than just about miscarriage.

One thing hubby and I experienced through some difficult events was our previously close friends backing off. It wasn't because they were being hurt by what was happening, apart from it interfering with parties! What I got told (because I asked) was they 'didn't know what to say' 'felt awkward' or worried they would say the wrong thing. In the space of a year we went from a good sized very social group to having only 2 real friends left. What I learned was thet if we wanted friends around to be supportive but mostly just to be friends then I (cos hubby is uber soft anyway!) needed to accept they can and will make mistakes. At first I hadn't done that because what they did seemed SO STUPID I presumed they didn't care and FELT so hurt I was angry - it took time to realise that what seemed stupid to me was because I KNEW what it felt like but they didn't. I realised that especially when people get fearful about saying the wrong thing they often do because they are fearful, because they can try to hard to find something to make the hurt go away and that NEVER seems to work.

I think most of us WANT to be able to ease someone elses pain and it strikes at a hard part of learning to begin to learn we can't always do that. Through that process it's often easier to blame whoever is hurt for us not being able to make it go away.

All I'm saying is that human support comes with human failings and that human beings will bust a gut to MAKE others feel better, and show frustration when it doesn't seem to work. I know that to have the benefits of human caring requires forgiveness of human flaws.

When I read that list of don'ts above it had the effect of making me feel it's better to say nothing because I could all to easily make one or more of those mistakes. But is it better for people just to avoid someone grieving? For me the thing that hurt almost as much as what was happening in our lives was our friends avoiding us. A year or so later the repair work is still underway on that score - both me and they have to figure out what went wrong and how to sort it out because as much as I love our remaining two friends, I miss the others, they had been good friends for many years. They now say they miss us sometimes too.

 

[jenna]

im glad youve found somewhere where you feel you can get help.

 

[katyk]

I have been through similar things myself when I was a survivor of rape, almost everyone turned from me and most couldn't understand my perspective and thought I was some sort of evil person!

It made me isolated where I live and I'm having to build up new friendships, starting from scratch apart from having my OH, who's stood by me all the way through it.

In the end what helped me was just to start to live with the fact that others couldn't understand, rather than constantly replaying cruel things people had said to me over the years.

It has stopped me caring so much about other's opinions- they can all think I'm a mare but they can't see it from my perspective ever, most of them. And I have to think that I asserted myself by trying to press charges, others can think what they like but my conscience is clear because I told this man by doing that, that what he did is not ok.

I suppose what I mean is others can say what they want, they can't feel it entirely from your perspective. And to stop feeling so hurt over other's opinions you have to just accept that some will never understand, though sometimes you can fight for your opinions to these people, you could do that more for your own peace of mind rather than trying to convince them and being angry that they can't understand.

Anyway hope you can sort of get my point, though I am knackered today so maybe taking more words to try and make sense