breastfeeding advice needed!(bit long)

[bagpuss]

Hello everyone!I didn't know whether I should put this topic in the breastfeeding sticky,please feel free to move it there if you think it would be better there!
I don't know anyone who has breastfed,therefore I am hoping I can get some sound advice and opinion from you ladies,as always - I really don't know what I would do without you!

I have been breastfeeding Finn since birth,and apart from a few minor problems,thought I had been quite successful at it.While I was in the hospital,they looked at my feeding chart,watched me feed him,all that was fine.They said he was a hungry baby,I could supplement him with a cup feed,of which he had two whilst in there,straight after being on the boob.However,for some reason when I got home he started to lap at my boob as if it was the cup,so I decided to use a bottle to top him up instead(one of those Tommee Tippee ones that are like a boob)The top ups have been with expressed breast milk.Finn had gained weight in his first two weeks.I felt really proud of myself,because I had always thought "how do I know he is getting enough feed from me" because he feeds for what seems like an age,plus the fact he has these top ups after a booby feed,so I was delighted.
Then last week,the health visitor came to weigh him,and he had lost weight.She weighed him on electronic scales as oppose to the midwife weighing him on what I call the fishing scales,and it was showing that he had dropped from 8.8lb to 8.2lb .She started waffling on about the growth charts not being made for breast fed babies,but because he had dropped one centile,she phoned the hospital up,and Finn was admitted so they could monitor him.
It was awful.When they weighed him upon arrival,on different scales again,he weighed 8.4lb.They told me I could not put him on my boob,but had to express everything so they could see how much he was taking.
The plan was for me to feed him 100ml every 4 hours.They didn't watch him feed at all,I could have been tipping it down the sink for all they knew.They even made me wake him for a night feed,which he did not like at all.Anyway,after our overnight stay,when they weighed him in the morning he was 8.9lb ,then on another set of scales a few hours later he was 8.6lb ,so when they let us go they said he was a poor feeder,but weighing him on different scales had made the problem seem worse than it was.

I know that my Finn isn't a poor feeder - they had said on the maternity ward that he was greedy,hence the top up feeds,the Midwife that came to visit agreed and said I was doing everything right,it is just the health visitor and the nurses on the childrens ward who questioned it.
The health visitor told me to only let him feed for half an hour on the boob,if I did that he would fade away!She also said I should top him up with formula,but I express his top up feed,and have done so since he was born.

Sorry for the long story,but I needed to get it down,and it may help you understand why I am asking what seems like a few really silly questions.....I have the midwife saying that I am doing everything okay,and the health visitor contradicting her,who do you think I should listen to,because I am following the Midwifes advice - she says it is okay for Finn to feed as long as he needs,it is okay to let him go through the night if that is what he wants,because he will let me know if he wants a feed(his last feed is around 12-12.30 and he wakes at around 5-6 ish)When Finn was weighed on Wednesday he was 8lb 13 oz.

Is it common for booby fed babies to gain weight slower,or be a little erratic with weight gain/loss?
Do they tend to feed for what seems like hours at a time - Finns average time for a feed is an hour and half,but he can feed for longer,or even spend less time on the boob but more frequent.
Does anyone else top up after a feed - at first I was doing this so I knew he had had something,should I keep doing this?
Does anyone top up with formula - the health visitor has made me so paranoid about him putting on weight,and suggested to do this.I am considering this,but I would be worried if it upset his stomach having the two different types of milk.

I have loads more questions,but I can't remember them all!I shall post them in the sticky this time.

Sorry for the novel,I did try to keep it short,honest

 

[Rosieroo]

Arrrrghhhhhhhhhh! Feel like screaming at the advice you've been given!!

Is it common for booby fed babies to gain weight slower,or be a little erratic with weight gain/loss?

Absolutely!

I know that you are probably really worried now and feel that you should follow the advice you've been given with regards to top ups etc, as afterall, they're the 'professionals' But that advice is totally bloody carp!!!

It's normal for a breastfed baby to feed very frequently and for long periods, especially at first. Ella would feed for hours. He's basically getting your milk supplies up - if you top up with formula then they will never stabilise. I was told to top up, and even by just giving her 1-2oz at night (over the course of about 3 days) it took til Ella was 10 weeks for my supply to sort itself out.

Please please please phone a breastfeeding counsellor. Topping up (with formula) is not the answer.

I feel so angry for you, you've been through a real carp time with it all. You're doing really well - carry on with your gut instinct to feed feed feed off the boob, you will be stimulated to produce more milk at feed times. Ella would happily much for well over an hour, have a teeny break and go on for another hour. Feeding charts and things like that are shit (sorry but they are!), you cannot expect a bf baby to feed the same as a formula baby. Breastfed babies dictact when and how much they want to feed, sometimes they just want a nibble. Mostly at Finn's age he will just feed and feed. This time will pass.

Christ, the weight that he supposedly lost could be to do with going for a poo or something like that, or even being fed before he was weighed.

I'm sorry that you've been jumped on by the HV and MW, they are rubbish.

(((hugs))) to you both, please phone a counsellor, do you have their number?

 

[Rosieroo]

The health visitor told me to only let him feed for half an hour on the boob,

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr you wouldn't believe how angry I am at the moment Stupid bloody HV!

 

[beanie]

Completely agree with Rosieroo, the advice you have been given is terrible. Finn sounds just like Seren and I ended up topping her up with formula as I felt that I wasn't providing her with enough and all that I needed was someone to tell me that it was normal for a newborn to feed so often and for so long.

Is finn giving plenty of wet nappies?? (around 5-6 a day). s he feeding at night (he should be), and he should be feeding around 8-12 times a day (even more if he wants). If so then he is getting enough milk. I would give Finn moer time at the breast, get your latch checked out to make sure he is able to get enough milk (is there a braestfeeding support group in your area). Leave him on the breast for as long as he wants to make sure he gets to the hindmilk (Seren used to feed for an average of 40 mins on each boob- now its 5 mins). Seren has dropped 2 centiles but it spot on with her height/weight so yes it is normal for breastfed babies to gain weight erratically. Ask your HV for the breastfed chart, formula milk means weight gain whereas breast milk is a more gradual gain.

Just wanted to say that I am in awe of you, to carry on through all that is fantastic and you deserve a massive hug ((()))). Any other questions just give us a shout xxx

 

[lauramumof2]

thats plain scary. You trust these people to give the right answer and to know whats right. If he wasnt getting enough milk surely he would hitting the roof by now.
Its your instinct as a mum thats kept you going and will keep you going.
Go on!

 

[v11kae]

Good for you to have kept at it I still cant believe the advice you were given either! My HV cant give me any BF advice as apparently there is no mothers in my area who ever breastfeed for as long as I have??? Surely that cannt be right and it isnt that she is new as this is a mother of 3 who has been inthe job for atleast 10 years I was told!

Beanie, why do they have to feed through the night? my LO has been sleeping right through from 5 days old and so I let him. He has never lost any weight only gained.

La Leche league is a breastfeeding support group who helped me out a treat where a midwife, HV and doctor couldnt and also told me BF babies dont get colic, how wrong were they. Its just less likely apparently.

Here is the link:
http://www.laleche.org.uk/

La leche managed to tell me how to solve my problems before I had even finished telling the symptoms and they also offer great support, follow up calls etc.

I wish you all the best, your doing amazing!

 

[beanie]

The reason I put that is that if baby isn't gaining enough milk they may sleep more to preseerve energy, so if a baby is gaining weight slowly and is sleeping long periods then they should be woken regularly for feeds. If baby is ok in all the other areas and they sleep through the night it is not a concern. Night feeds are very common in breastfed babies and they are important as this is when the prolactin is the highest so it is great for your milk supply. However a few babies do sleep through, I know Rosieroo's Ella does, Seren did (oh those good old days). Like I said if everything is going ok then obviously you don't need to wake them, hope this is understandable as am typing in a rush

 

[Lucy]

Hi Bagpuss

Everyone has given you great advice, I just wanted to hopefully reassure you by telling you that Olivia also fed for an hour and a half sometimes at the beginning and often would be latched on/dozing from 7-10pm everynight. After about 7 wks my supply really calmed down and I was no longer engorged and although my boobs felt a lot softer they always produced lots of milk when Olivia wanted a feed.

Her weight gain has also been a bit erratic, once she only put on 1oz in a week but two weeks later she put on 13 oz

I think it's poor that they didn't weigh him on the old fishing scales before taking that action - surely that would have given them a true indication of how much he had/hadn't lost.

Regarding the top up feed - I've never done this because I was too disorganised to sterilise everything but I wish I had given Olivia some expressed milk in a bottle consistently because she refuses a bottle now

You're doing a great job

Lucy

 

[petchy]

Arrrrghhhhhhhhhh! Feel like screaming at the advice you've been given!!

agree with rosieroo!!! that is TERRIBLE!!!

ruben had a few top up bottles in the 1st 2 weeks as my milk took nearly 2 weeks to come in, but after that he was just BF. when he was having the top ups i made him suckle on the boob for ages first, until he had hissy fits because there was nothing but a few drops of colostrum coming out. topping up can negatively affect the milk supply, so i stopped as soon as my milk was in. (he now has a top up again of about 5oz before bed, but i'm happy with that) in the beginning he'd spend AGES on the boob and very often. and he'd always want both boobs in one sitting - i felt like i was a vending machine! but as the weeks went by he started feeding really quickly, he'd empty a boob in 5 mins! so i got worried he wasn't taking enough - but he was still putting on weight at an alarming rate so he'd obviously just got very good at getting the milk out!

told you this just to illustrate how different babies can be. some will feed little and often, some will feed A LOT and often, some will have erratic feeding patterns... and their feedign patterns and times can change just like that too.

keep at it girl, and i'd get in touch with a BF councellor if i were you.

La Leche League: 0845 120 2918, www.laleche.org.uk
National Childbirth Trust: 0870 444 8708, www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers: 0870 401 7711, http://www.abm.me.uk/

 

[bagpuss]

I just want to say thank you to all of you for your replies and words of encouragement - it really does mean a lot to me,and my partner Dave.
I felt so useless when they admitted Finn into the hospital,I really thought that I would have to stop booby feeding and switch to formula,they made me feel like I was neglecting Finn.
What was worse is that I am suffering terrible with carpal tunnel syndrome,so much so that I know if I hold him too long or try and bath him etc I know that I will drop him,I can't stand to see other people hold him because it makes me so jealous that they can have longer hugs than me,but I have mastered a hold when I feed him that doesn't seem to cause the numbness,I can do it lying down too,so it felt like they were trying to take that away from me.Dave has been wonderful though,and given me so much support,and now with the support that I am getting from you I know I can do this! I got ever so emotional when reading your replies

The HV is coming on Tuesday to weigh him,she seems obsessed with this issue now,I just want to tell her to p**s off and leave us alone - I will let you know how it goes.

 

[v11kae]

thanks Beanie,

thought maybe I had been missing out in those all impprtant feeds!

 

[LouisecH]

Bloody hell I've only just seen this!

Great advice from everyone. Zara once fed for 2.5 hours Why on earth you were advised to let him feed only for half an hour I can't possibly imagine.

His feeds will get shorter as he gets older but now and again he'll go through a few days of feeding for hours to get the milk supply to level he needs.

I've just fed Zara for an hour and a half and she's 6 months old.

Keep with it you're doing a brilliant job.

 

[Jadie]

i have only just seen this too. i dont under stand how expressing would show how much he was getting. expressing gets less out than the baby does. did they take this into account. sorry no capitals, using one hand!

well done for keeping going!

 

[Lauz_1601]

wow Im amazed by you girls, I gave up BF in the early days, but reading this I dont think I could have kept going, it sounds like such hard work! but jus wanna say I admire you all for keeping going,wish I did!