going mental!

[titch]

Ahhhhhhh!

We're going a bit insane here! Baby Morgan had feeding problems in his early days. He had no suck reflex at all, and the paediatrician couldnt elicit one either. He was syringe fed for the first few days. I insisted that the midwives didnt just squirt all the liquid straight in but did it gradually and encouraged him to use his lips or tongue or something to actively participate in the process. They wouldnt let me syringe feed him, hospital policy. Eventually the feeding specialist came and put her little finger in his mouth while gradually squirting in small amount and he started sucking for the first time... and I started crying with relief We had loads of skin to skin and kept trying with the breast feeding, and he was rooting brilliantly but couldnt really latch on. On day 4 he managed to feed from a bottle, which, although it wasnt what I had wanted for him, it was soooo nice, cos I got to feed him for the first time myself instead of watch as a midwife syringe fed him.

On day 5 in the evening, he breast fed for the first time if I cried when he suckled on the feeding specialist finger I positively bawled while trying not to move or make noise to stop him.

Now we're home, he's latched on to breast feed 3 times, I absolutely love it. But it takes a really long time to get him latched on and sometimes we have to give up cos he gets so upset by it. I always try after using the electric pump for a min or so, cos firstly my milk is flowing more easily for him and also my nipple is huuuuuge after using the pump.

Our problem is... he is now CONSTANTLY demanding to feed, like ridiculous amounts. Last night I tried a breast feed before bed, unsucessfully, and just had 130ml expressed milk ready for the night, and OH made one big formula feed for before bed (he took 60mls) By 5am he had finished the last of the expressed milk and at 6am he woke again, screaming for food, OH got up cos I said he couldnt possibly be hungry. He was, he roots like a crazed baby on anyone who holds him. We spent half an hour trying to breastfeed while OH made up 90mls of formula. Hes just taken 40ml of that, but couldnt latch onto the breast at all.

When he's bottle feeding he has really poor lip seal around the teat, and sucks in air too. We have to put a finger to help him make a proper seal, I think this is his problem with the breast feeding.

I just cant understand why he's constantly demanding to feed. Its exhausting. The guilty mummy inside of me thinks that what he wants is the boob, for comfort, he fell asleep on my breast a few times in hospital after spending half an hour getting him on.

I need help, and more help that those leaflets. Every midwife who saw him told me I wasnt doing anything wrong, the baby just couldnt do it. And someone came and sat down with me before I decided to start bottle feeding and said that usually she gives the mums talks about not giving up, but she really can see that he has real problems with this and she was concerned about him not getting enough food.

I really, really, dont want to give up on the breast feeding, but I just get so upset trying now. Its so frustrating when Ive run out of expressed milk and have to listen to him screaming as if hes not eaten for hours while waiting for the formula to cool. OH tries to hold him to comfort him while we wait and he just spends the whole time frantically rooting on his arms, shoulder, face anything, then screams.

I have no idea what Im asking, I suppose if anyone else has been through this, then found a magic wand that worked, that would be nice

 

[flexilexi394]

sorry not any advice as such - didnt want to read and run though, because if i ended up in your situation id want advice too! i get the impression there are like breast feeding people floating around all over the place and they apparently help with this sort of problem, i guess just keep expressing and if you run out then formula it is until you can express some more! i guess the main thing is to not worry too much as it can dry up your milk, just keep going with expressing and hopefully everything will come together for you honey. it cant be easy at all for you. maybe health visitor can help?? x

 

[isobel84]

oh tiny im sorry you are having such hard time and poor morgan being so stressed out! I have not got a clue about this, before i came on this forum i just asumed that everyone could breastfeed but now im getting nervous that it wont happend. Well im sure someone with loads of experience will read this soon. i just wanted to say im thinking of you and Oh and little morgan and i really hope you find a solution soon XXX

 

[megsmeadow]

Hi Tiny
First off apologies, I'm rubbish at typing with one hand!
My little man had huge problems latching on as he seemed to be frenzied and within a few minutes of trying was screaming his little lungs out so if we missed the time slot there was no chance, he also breaks the latch after seconds too. So I turned to expressing and formula top-ups. Just last week I felt my milk was starting to reduce so I decided to try him again mid-feed. To my amazement he latched really well and stayed on for ages! He seems to have learned how to feed a bit better and because I know there is a full bottle sitting in front of us if he needs it I'm a lot less stressed too. Oh and I tend to make up a formula bottle in advance and fridge it (I know I shouldn't), but once my LO starts rooting he goes from 0 to 10 on the frenzy scale in seconds!!
I'm sorry I have no advice, think of it less as giving up and more as trying out alternatives! x

 

[titch]

oh MM your LO sounds exactly the same as ours! he gets so worked up and waiting for boiled water to cool is just like torture when hes screaming his lungs out! the midwife came round today and has referred us to a breastfeeding specialist. She also weighed him and he has gained weight!!! i felt really embarrased after harping on at her about his feeding problems!

so glad to hear your LO has got the hang of it , that really gives me the hope I need to persevere. Also feeling a lot better now that I've chilled out, I did write that thread while waiting for the boiled water to cool!

 

[Rosie's Mummy]

Hey Tiny = Matt had real trouble latching on in the beginning, I stayed up all night on my last night in hospital teaching/training him and coaching him. He just did not open his mouth enough. Eventually he did and I surged with relief, I was about to give up and thought the road of formula was the only option. Its been really hard but he is now feeding well, yesterday I panicked because my right side was so engorged where he couldnt latch onto it, he was only feeding from the left side. I had to pump a whole load off just so it was nice and soft enough for him to latch. I found that even a little bit of firmness around the nipple was enough to prevent him getting on. Yesterday he started feeding every two hours, then in the night he started feeding every hour this has continued this morning and he has fed at 8, 9, 10 - right through constantly until 11.45 going on alternate breasts. I actually read this thread whilst feeding him earlier and was going to reply but fell asleep on the settee!

I dont really have a solution for you, but if I were in your situation I would keep expressing to keep your supply then as he grows - might be only a few days at the rate babies grow - he might suddenly latch on, of course keep trying him as you go.

Wishing you every success, any breastfeeding counsellors near you? Or support groups? I had the Welsh one visit me when I was in hospital, they were going around having chats. Shame Merv's Mum is on holiday, Im sure she would have some advice xx

 

[Rosie's Mummy]

oh MM your LO sounds exactly the same as ours! he gets so worked up and waiting for boiled water to cool is just like torture when hes screaming his lungs out! the midwife came round today and has referred us to a breastfeeding specialist. She also weighed him and he has gained weight!!! i felt really embarrased after harping on at her about his feeding problems!

so glad to hear your LO has got the hang of it , that really gives me the hope I need to persevere. Also feeling a lot better now that I've chilled out, I did write that thread while waiting for the boiled water to cool!

I used to make up the bottles with the boiled water in, cool them by standing then in the sink of cold water then kept them in the fridge until needed, 40 seconds if I remember rightly to heat them up xx

 

[AugustMum]

My LO was always rooting for the boobie so I always put her on but I kept saying that she cant be hungry because this would go on for hours none stop. With Paige it wasnt the latching or feeding but turned out ti be colic. Im now formula feeding as I would be in tears getting stressed and was in so much pain (at one point I was feeding her and there would be blood on her lips from my nipples ). I get all the bottles ready at the beginning of the day, fill with the cooled boiled water then add formula when I do the feed.

I think your doing fab keeping going with the breast feeding and I really hope you can get it all worked out Keep going, itll so be worth it!

 

[ERIN84]

Hi Tiny!!

Emily wouldnt latch on properly at all and my mw actaully advised to me express as my nipples were in such a state. So, i express now and top up with formula but we buy the formula ready in the cartons for night time as you can just pour it straight in and feed them. Emily gets very stressed waiting too! The cartons are a bit more expensive (about 55p per carton) but we dont use many so it doesnt matter too much. xx

 

[titch]

ah thankyou all! isnt it so strange how hearing other people are going through the same makes you feel so much better! i suppose it didnt help that it seemed every other lady on my ward had babieswho seemed to merrily latch on while mum simply glanced down for a second then carried on reading. i feel ike ive stared at my nipples more in the last 6 days than i have in my entire life beforethat!!!

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

has anyone checked for tongue tie??

 

[megsmeadow]

Yup BB Ross doesn't have one, but I've heard of many friends babies who did!

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

tongue tie is often a problem, so many babies have it, many which go undiagnosed for sometimes years!

It helped us out no end finding out Jasper had 75% tongue tie and gave us real hope for his feeding

also, nipple shields were a godsend whilst he worked out what to do, we have weaned him off those now but for the first couple of weeks he was feeding, it was fabby

Tiny honey i know you must be going through hell right now, i have had such a painful journey with Jasper and his feeding, i have literally felt like the worst mother on earth... like breastfeeding should be this easy, painless thing and the reality has hit me like a brick

I have done it though, we are established and happy now at 5 weeks and though there are still some hurdles, Jasper is feeding and gaining well... had they not found the tongue tie though... well the nightmare would have continued

You can do it if you stay strong lady but it is the hardest thing i have ever done and i feel for you

much love and if you need someone to talk to or rant at, i am often on MSN or on here so just PM me anytime

huggles

Fi xxx

 

[titch]

oh MM your LO sounds exactly the same as ours! he gets so worked up and waiting for boiled water to cool is just like torture when hes screaming his lungs out! the midwife came round today and has referred us to a breastfeeding specialist. She also weighed him and he has gained weight!!! i felt really embarrased after harping on at her about his feeding problems!

so glad to hear your LO has got the hang of it , that really gives me the hope I need to persevere. Also feeling a lot better now that I've chilled out, I did write that thread while waiting for the boiled water to cool!

I used to make up the bottles with the boiled water in, cool them by standing then in the sink of cold water then kept them in the fridge until needed, 40 seconds if I remember rightly to heat them up xx

this occured to us yesterday afternoon, OH made up 4 bottles with 60mls sterilised water last night and its been a complete saviour. I had a migrane yesterday afternoon so couldnt face the sound of the breast pump so my poor boy has had no boobie milk for ages! I just expressed some now, I thought my boobs were gonna explode!!

 

[titch]

Thanks so much BB. In the hospital a few people checked for tongue tie, he def hasnt got one, nor has be got problems with his palate. I do think hes having real difficulties making a good lipseal though. We've been referred to the specialist so hopefully she'll be in touch soon.

Im feeling a bit sad that I keep trying and he just gets upset more and more quickly everytime, like he's learning to hate it already my mum suggested giving it a reast for 24 hours and just using the bottles and I tried but I just kept thinking, oh Ill just try, you never know.

So glad to hear you got there with Jasper. Noones mentioned nipple shields to me... I thought they were just for if you had sore nipples, which I dont. I think your baby actually has to make some effort to suck on them before they get sore!!

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

the nipple shields were good for Jasper because he was not clear on sucking the milk from the boob, its a bit of a faff at first because you sort of have to put some milk in with a syringe or something whilst the nipple shield is in his mouth for him to suck it off (like you have been shown to do with a finger?) so that they get that instant reward thing, but it took Jasper a day or two to understand what they meant and be able to initiate the let-down on his own.

Basically, because the nipple shields are quite enormous, they are in the back of the childs throat instantly, so they naturally suckle as they do when anything is put into the throat... this is then a good way to get them to suckle stronger, as the more they suck on the big plastic-y thing.. the more milk and satisfaction they get

They really were a godsend for us, the hospital reccomended Medela Large nipple shields for me, they seem enormous but mean the nipple can be sucked into the mouth more which stimulates more glands... eventually we got him off them but for the moment if its going to intiate feeding without the distress (this was a BIG problem for us, he was tongue tied for so long if he came to the boob he instantly got frustrated, he associated the two) and it was that cycle that we broke before dealing with weaning off the shields

worth a go anyway

I do hope you find your way honey, i have literally just been through it so let me know if you need anything - am going to PM you my numbers and msn xxx

 

[titch]

oh my, thankyou thankyou THANKYOU! we went to boots this morning and picked up a medula nipple shield. We were BFing within 5 minutes of getting home and have had 4 breast feeds so far. He just latches on and goes for it. The 3rd feed he was a bit worked up but it only took 1-2 minutes to get him going, and theres no stopping him

Im beyond happy and so so grateful to you for telling me about this. I know its not the end of the road as we now have to find a way to wean him off the shield but I find this so much better than bottle feeding. And probably easier to wean him off a nipple shield than a bottle. To be honest, if I ended up having to use the shield until we stop BFing I wouldnt be too gutted about that.

I actually cried with joy during most of the first and 2nd feed

Thankyou so much, Im overjoyed

 

[Dragonfly Fi]

hey honey, it is important to wean him off the nipple shield but i reckon if you go to a breast feeding support group or something like that they will be able to talk to you about it all

What we did, is got him really used to the nipple shield and got him to build up a good relationship with the boob and the shield... when he 'got' it and had a good suck going, we would feed him on the shield until he had finished the frantic 'FILL ME UP NOW' bit of the feed and then we would move him on to the (now erect and milky) nipple. He would always give it a few sucks and eventually we were able to finish off the feeds without the shield.

Then we would get the nipple erect ourselves, with a bit of hand expressing or whatever, and use our finger to get him sucking properly before putting him to the breast with the erect nipple and without the shield

when he was able to start feeding off the shield, we simply stopped using them, it took us about 2 weeks to wean him and feeding is much, much more personal, comfortable and less messy now - but for the first week and a half of him using the shield i just blissed out at the fact he was feeding from me and let good relationships be made between him and the boob

His suck got loads better too as he got stronger and more familiar with sucking the milk on the nipple shield but i would definantly suggest you start to wean off it before he gets really comfy, just because its so much nicer off the shield and better for milk supply and stuff

i got sent this link on a different forum http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/wean-shield.html
which was helpful

I also thought i would stay on the nipple shields forever and i know other people have taken much longer to wean so dont stress yourself out, but perhaps think about starting to wean him in a week or two

xxxx So glad it helped, i remember crying through my first two nipple-shielded-feeds also

Hugs xxx