a bit of a discussion

[Steelgoddess]

OK before I post this is in no way to offend anyone, I have respect for anyone whether they give birth with and without drugs but this was an intersting watch...

http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/tvradio.html

Click on the picture and watch the video...

 

[breezee1984]

unassisted childbirth is beautiful in my opinion

 

[fifi211]

I think if you can do it great and I know that in some countries that is the norm BUT personally I don't think I could do it.

I know some people find hospitals and medical intervention stressful and unnatural but for me knowing that there are professionals there who can act if anything goes wrong is very reassuring.

Also childbirth is a painful, I know relaxation techniques, breathing etc can help, but I would like to know if it got too much that there are options for me. I have a very low pain threshold and my last birth I had g+a and an epidural!

However, how you choose to give birth is a very personal experience and it is up to the individual to choose how they want things to go.

Sorry for the rambling post

 

[floppit]

It was interesting - but once it got onto the need to believe in god rather than evolution bells rang for me! For a start she ignores the issues of pelvic changes as human being evolved to walk on two legs!

There's pro's and cons to being human and on balance I love it - but the big brains human babies have and the bipedal pelvis mean that we do have more of a job on than your average goat! On the bright side child birth has consistantly got safer over the last century (another issue which if her theory was correct then perhaps it should have got more dangerous with the increasing intervention).

I've never been pregnant before but I have the self confidence to excercise my right to approach it with a positive (rather than delusional) attitude. I think it will be one of the hardest but most incredible day or so of my life - I'm content with that BUT I'm also reassured by the care of a world wide geeky population who've been thinking about this for generations and have gained a good track record.

Ok - I have the interview on while I'm typing this and NOW I'm p******d off at her! It's got where the god botherers go by nature - BLAME. The pain is a result of the woman's shame? Women are getting in their own way?

Oh not forgetting the suggestion even a breach birth is no problem - it's STILL the women getting in their own way!

You pays your money and takes your pick - but it's got me running for the hills!

 

[Kimbo]

It was interesting - but once it got onto the need to believe in god rather than evolution bells rang for me! For a start she ignores the issues of pelvic changes as human being evolved to walk on two legs!

There's pro's and cons to being human and on balance I love it - but the big brains human babies have and the bipedal pelvis mean that we do have more of a job on than your average goat! On the bright side child birth has consistantly got safer over the last century (another issue which if her theory was correct then perhaps it should have got more dangerous with the increasing intervention).

I've never been pregnant before but I have the self confidence to excercise my right to approach it with a positive (rather than delusional) attitude. I think it will be one of the hardest but most incredible day or so of my life - I'm content with that BUT I'm also reassured by the care of a world wide geeky population who've been thinking about this for generations and have gained a good track record.

Ok - I have the interview on while I'm typing this and NOW I'm p******d off at her! It's got where the god botherers go by nature - BLAME. The pain is a result of the woman's shame? Women are getting in their own way?

Oh not forgetting the suggestion even a breach birth is no problem - it's STILL the women getting in their own way!

You pays your money and takes your pick - but it's got me running for the hills!

wow

 

[muppetmummy]

Thanks Sharne, that was really interesting and got me thinking.

I agree with you Floppit that we have evolved and our pelvises haven't kept up. We have to get a big head through a much smaller space than any other animal! It's much more painful for us than your pet dog

I do believe that the medical intervention is sometimes used too quickly too. I wonder sometimes if some ceserians are performed more for the doctors benefit (to help them cope with a huge workload and not enough staff) more than the woman and childs benefit.

I think there should be a balance between letting women get on with it, and having the drugs and equipment there to help. I think women should be able to move around as they please during labour rather than being encouraged to stay in bed and have an epidural.

This time round I am seriously considering asking for a home birth. With James when I was in labour the maternity suite was overflowing. There were no birthing pools or even baths free! When I arrived because all the labourrooms were full I was chucked in a room on the maternity ward by myself and because it was night time noone was allowed to stay with me. I felt all alone and scared. I had pethidine and was really out of it for several hours, in a half asleep state. I was sick on the floor beside my bed cos I was too drugged up to find the sick bowl!
The next thing I knew I was on all fours shouting and the nurses came in to find me fully dilated and were having a debate about whether they could move me downstairs to the delivery room without me giving birth in the lift!
After the birth on the maternity ward I felt totally alone and neglected. The midwifes were just too busy to give everyone the attention they needed.

I hope I haven't scared anyone! Loads of women give birth in hospital and have an amazing experience. But I personally think I'd rather be at home, with a cup of tea being ableto walk around my house, get in and out of the bath and please myself.

 

[floppit]

MM - that sounds AWFUL!! I would be totally distressed if they didn't let David stay with me - I think I'd do a bloody runner!

I'm trying to persaude my best mate of 25 years to be there as well but she isn't sure if it would be a good thing. She's an experienced nurse and I think she'd get on her high horse if anyone tried to do the wrong thing for convinience - that's why I want her there.

There's so much about national health care which needs polishing up but I think the bottom line is I'm glad we have it. I have friends in countries without free health care and it's no joke, we are SO better off.

Driving to work I imagined a fella listening to that interview and then, while his wife was screaming in pain, him suggesting if she was less sexually repressed it wouldn't hurt so much! I suppose at least he would already be in the hospital.

I wonder if she'll (woman interviewed) allow her daughters REAL free choice in how they want to give birth?

 

[muppetmummy]

Oh yes! Definately grateful we have an NHS at all. Feel sorry for the midwives though, they have to put up with so much. When I was in hospital used to see them in tears from stress. I used to work in university admissions and the midwifery course was full 3 years in advance with about 50 people applying for each place. Then they'd graduate and couldn't find work! It's a joke

 

[muppetmummy]

And it was still the best experience of my life despite the isolation, would do it all again this afternoon

 

[floppit]

And it was still the best experience of my life despite the isolation, would do it all again this afternoon

P'haps hang on 8 months - no need to rush into anything this afternoon....

 

[muppetmummy]

Good plan!

 

[Pregnopaws]

I'm in two minds about medical intervention, but what I do know is that often where it is possible, choices are not offered to mothers in labour, but rather decisions made and enforced without argument.

This strongly reminds me of the time I gave birth to my son way back in 1991 where c-sections were almost certainly performed under a general, and episiotomies were pretty much the order of the day!

In addition to that, at the time I went into hospital there were two doctors on opposite 24 hour shifts, who were always consulted first on how the labours would proceed.

1) The first doctor favoured c-sections and almost every baby, during his shift, was lifted out of the sun roof without much deliberation. The slightest hint of a high BP, or a mother 'taking way toooo long' and he would wave his hand and call in the anaesthesist.

2) The second doctor highly favoured natural births. He would demand that the mothers be given plenty of time to achieve this. Unless there were terrible complications these mothers were often in labour for days.

The whole point of the above is that soon the mothers copped on to what was going on with these doctors, and many of them sat on their beds with baited breath, and quitely held back their pains.. in the hope of getting whichever doctor's method they preferred on duty! I thought that was awful. I also recall asking some young mothers why they had a c-section etc to which they would shrug and say "Dunno, the doctor ordered it done."

I got the second doctor, hence my labour took 24 hours!

 

[Steelgoddess]

Great response ladies!

I think we should definatly have the choice but I also worry about things that could go wrong, it might be a morbid way of thinking but childbirth is a complicated thing and many woman have died doing it.

We also need to consider what happens after childbirth it's all very well popping the baby out but what if the mother starts to hermerage? Not really something you can just ignore and think oh it will go away a couple of sanitary towels will sort it out, urm not if your whole insides have ruptured and you need surgery!

We are so lucky to have the NHS on hand for help why should any shy away from it? I dont judge anyone if they have all the drugs or non...

Also I believe things today have changed doctors and midwives discuss everything with you prior to doing it, we need to keep our trust with those who do care otherwise we will be scared...

x

 

[floppit]

I think we should definatly have the choice but I also worry about things that could go wrong, it might be a morbid way of thinking but childbirth is a complicated thing and many woman have died doing it.

I'm not sure whether the choice to give birth 'unassisted' should be given, by that I mean alone and outside of any medical care as suggested in the interview. One of the reasons I'd be against that level of free will is the control families can have over a mother to be, especially where it involves deeply held religious beliefs. Realistically an 18 yr old who's entire support network (family) tell her she is better off alone and will be in agony if assisted is pretty powerful. I know that would be rare but bearing in mind emergancy care orders still have to be obtained in the UK when bllod transfusions for a child or adolescent are refused on religious grounds AND that there are adults who elect to die rather than recieve blood.

The influence over an 18 yr old might be greater because as the years chalk up more independance is gained but that's not to say older mum's would be immune to brainwashing and unlike refusing a life saving blood transfusion in this case there's a little person involved with no say in the matter!

I'm 100% pro choice but within reason and I would be very worried if a movement like this caught on over here along with the suggestion that having no medical help available was a reasonable decision to make.

It's a world away from a home birth (which I think are ace, but am just chicken to do it as a first time at 36!!).

 

[Steelgoddess]

I think we should definatly have the choice but I also worry about things that could go wrong, it might be a morbid way of thinking but childbirth is a complicated thing and many woman have died doing it.

I'm not sure whether the choice to give birth 'unassisted' should be given, by that I mean alone and outside of any medical care as suggested in the interview. One of the reasons I'd be against that level of free will is the control families can have over a mother to be, especially where it involves deeply held religious beliefs. Realistically an 18 yr old who's entire support network (family) tell her she is better off alone and will be in agony if assisted is pretty powerful. I know that would be rare but bearing in mind emergancy care orders still have to be obtained in the UK when bllod transfusions for a child or adolescent are refused on religious grounds AND that there are adults who elect to die rather than recieve blood.

The influence over an 18 yr old might be greater because as the years chalk up more independance is gained but that's not to say older mum's would be immune to brainwashing and unlike refusing a life saving blood transfusion in this case there's a little person involved with no say in the matter!

I'm 100% pro choice but within reason and I would be very worried if a movement like this caught on over here along with the suggestion that having no medical help available was a reasonable decision to make.

It's a world away from a home birth (which I think are ace, but am just chicken to do it as a first time at 36!!).

Sorry i guess I was thinking more along the lines of home birth and having just a midwife there, then again thats assisted isnt it?

Gr8 point you have therre

 

[floppit]

I think I just lack faith in human beings!

When I was in my 20's I worked with horses and there were 2 loose dogs on the yard, they didn't bark but would run up to strangers to say hello. One day a woman and a young girl walked into the yard and the kid was scared to death of the dogs. I shut the dogs up and went back to see what they wanted - they were J witnesses so the conversation was brief. I warned her not to take the child into the next farm's yard (about 100 yards from us) because they had loose dogs that regularly bit the postie and had on occassion even headed down to the yard I worked for a rumble - NOT nice dogs. She told me god would protect the girl and off they went. I don't know the child was bitten because she may well have screamed anyway, but I did hear the screams and I heard the guard dogs kick off!

I don't know why but that woman's solution to a breech birth (tickle the dangling baby's feet while stood up in the bath) reminded me of the above. Maybe it was the same absolute conviction they were right.