struggling

[laracomps]

i desperately want to bf phoebe, but ever since she was born we've had problems.

at first she wouldn't latch on. i think my nipples are a bit big for her mouth. so the hosp said to try shields. i did this for several days, thought it was working. but when they weighed her on day 7 she'd lost more than 10% of her birth weight turns out she's been sucking but not swallowing.

the recommendation by the mw, try giving her expressed milk top-up. fail in which a formula top up. this broke my heart and i felt like such a failure. couldn't get any milk using hand pump so sent OH out to 24 hour tesco for medela electric one which is loads better. but its taking a day to express enough for 1 feed. i get about 30ml combined from both breasts, less if i've fed her first.

so after many tears, i ended up giving her formula. poor mite was starving. she started with a top up of 30-60ml. this has now increased to 120ml sometimes

she still isn't back at her birth weight. though i am hopeful she might be tomorrow when the mw's weigh her again. they have been great, visiting every few days to weigh her again. at one point i stopped the formula top ups for about 2 days as i felt she was feeding a lot better from me - and i had enough to top up with EBM. however, when they weighed her, she hadn't gained enough weight. so we are back to topping up with formula. i am also expressing after most feeds, so at least i have some to top her up with for 1-2 feeds.

i have done so much research over the past few days. i'm at the end of my tether. i want to breast feed her so badly. i have tried breast compression which does seem to help. but she has a lot of problems keeping awake on the breast. i strip her, blow on her face, tickle her, burp her, swap sides. a lot of the time, none of it seems to work. but try and put her down to sleep, and give it 5 mins she's screaming for food. I normally go on for about an hour like this before giving up - i'm exhausted, so is she, and i feel like she isn't getting any milk from me she only seems to swallow every 5 or so sucks.

i just don't know what to do. my latch has been checked several times - they say she latches on great. so why does she just suck and not swallow?! i am 100% sure this is the problem, the mw confirmed last time she came that she wasn't doing much swallowing. my breasts never feel that hard or full, could it be that i don't have enough milk? also, when i express, most of my milk comes pouring out within about 4 mins then slows down to a trickle - could this be why she stops sucking and goes to sleep after 5-10 mins?

any advice would be great, especially if anyone has experienced something similar. i just don't see the situation changing for the better. everytime i think she is feeding better, she still won't settle until she's had 90ml formula, so how can she be getting enough from me? this eve i fed her for on and off for an hour, and i'm quite sure she emptied both breasts (though it took a while).

if i was sure she was getting milk from me, i'd feed her all day and all night if i had to - but i don't think this is the case, and i don't want her weight to start dropping again. i am finding it all emotionally so difficult, i feel like such a bad mum. i know this is irrational thinking, i just can't help it at the moment.

EDITED. Forgot to say she also seems to stop swallowing with a bottle after a while and all the milk pours out of her mouth all over her chin and neck. is this normal?

thanks in advance.

ps sorry about lack of caps, trying to get her off to sleep at same time.

 

[loz]

Hi, I cant really advise from my experience although I would say - dont beat yourself up about it - if you need to formula feed, do it and dont feel bad. It sounds as though you have tried really hard. I guess as long as you take advice from the MWs and HV and try your best, that's all you can do. There is a lot of pressure to breast feed, but you have to do what you can. It's stressful enough with a newborn without extra pressure!

 

[lisa&alex]

everything u have said has happened to me.. 5 sucks and a swallow is normal just keep ehr on the breast the 1st few days dont expect to move off the sofa or bed..instead of giving bottles as topups get her a seringe full just to get her appitite up.. then feed ehr.. her weight loss is typial to.. edward lost 9% and gained it back within 2 weeks.. so dont force her.. try not to give bottles.. or formula.. she needs to be on your breast as much as she can.. all day if need to be.. get help from breastfeeding experts midwives are not breastfeeding experts they only have 1 days training in breastfeeding..

 

[KJ]

Hiya hun,

firstly, please don't beat yourself up. Breastfeeding is very difficult and takes a hell of a lot out of you.

I would say that if a baby is feeding effectively, even when newborn they should spend no more than 25 mins on each side. I know a lot of people had babies that fed 24-7 but they tend to feed less effectively when constantly on the breast. They then get used to snacking.

Your boobs are designed to hold quite a lot of milk, store it for a few hours and then let it down when the baby stimulates your reflex. This may be the problem when expressing. The first few times I expressed I found that I got no more than an ounce or so and I was really disheartened thinking I had no milk. However, the third time I tried I was just about to give up when I felt a tingling sensation and suddnely the milk came gushing out! Breast pumps are not very good at stimulating your let down reflex. Are you sure you're getting that far when you're expressing? If you keep at it and make sure you stimulate the let-down then you'lll get more effiecient at it and it'll get a lot easier. Your breasts will allow so much milk to come out through suction alone with the breast pump. But then they'll stop unless the let-down is stimulated.

Have you tried tickling her chin and under her neck when she feeds? Even if Ash is falling asleep, this always stimulated him to start sucking again.

Not sure what else to say, I really hope it gets better for you. Remember, even if you can only brestfeed her for some of her feeds, that's still giving her all the benefits.

K.xx[/quote]

 

[KJ]

Hiya hun,

firstly, please don't beat yourself up. Breastfeeding is very difficult and takes a hell of a lot out of you.

I would say that if a baby is feeding effectively, even when newborn they should spend no more than 25 mins on each side. I know a lot of people had babies that fed 24-7 but they tend to feed less effectively when constantly on the breast. They then get used to snacking.

Your boobs are designed to hold quite a lot of milk, store it for a few hours and then let it down when the baby stimulates your reflex. This may be the problem when expressing. The first few times I expressed I found that I got no more than an ounce or so and I was really disheartened thinking I had no milk. However, the third time I tried I was just about to give up when I felt a tingling sensation and suddnely the milk came gushing out! Breast pumps are not very good at stimulating your let down reflex. Are you sure you're getting that far when you're expressing? If you keep at it and make sure you stimulate the let-down then you'lll get more effiecient at it and it'll get a lot easier. Your breasts will allow so much milk to come out through suction alone with the breast pump. But then they'll stop unless the let-down is stimulated.

Have you tried tickling her chin and under her neck when she feeds? Even if Ash is falling asleep, this always stimulated him to start sucking again.

Not sure what else to say, I really hope it gets better for you. Remember, even if you can only brestfeed her for some of her feeds, that's still giving her all the benefits.

K.xx

 

[laracomps]

thanks for replies.

i think part of the problem is probably where we have had so many visitors - i dont feel comfortable bf in front of friends and family at the moment and i haven't felt able to disappear with her for 1 hour plus when ppl have travelled 2 hours to see us.

this week i just want to spend in with her trying to bf as much as poss.

lisa - what sort of syringe do i need and where can i buy one from?

think my oh thinks it would be easier to just give her formula. i think its hard for him seeing us both upset, but generally he is quite supportive. my mum doesnt seem to understand why i am persevering when its taking so much out of me. i think mentally this is making the situation worse for me. i just want to give her the best start in life, i wish ppl would understand.

mw has given me the number of a private breast feeding advisor in my area today. will see how things go first as money is a bit tight at the mo.

 

[muppetmummy]

i don't have any advice but want you to know you're not alone,

i only managed to breastfeed james for a week as he never seemed satisfied and was advised by scbu nurses that he'd be better off on formula.

breast feeding can be hard and its not uncommon to struggle. up to now i've been giving logan a couple ounces of formula at night time cos he's been feeding constantly for 6 hours, then gets really distressed and keeps unlatching and screaming.
my milk has just started to come in today so i hope that will improve things
i've hardly moved from the bed or sofa since he was born and oh is sleeping on the sofa at night as he refuses to sleep in the moses basket, and will only sleep in bed with me.

i hope things improve for you soon. dont beat yourself up about it. you're doing your best and have put so much effort into making this work.

 

[KJL]

Hiya, i had exactly the same problems BF and i was desperate to make it work. I BF on demand for 6 wks and it was getting to the point where she was permantly attached to my boobs, but never satisfied or full and not putting on any weight. She was latching on very well but like your LO was only taking a few sucks/swallows here and there. I started topping up with one fomula feed a day at 4 wks as advised by MW to try and get her weight up and also to help with her jaundice. I tried expressing too and hired a hospital grade pump but i will literally getting maximum 2 oz in a whole day and like you it all came out in the first few mins and then stopped to a trickle I really believe that my supply was not efficient as i perservered for a long time. Eventually i was advised to switch to formula as she was constantly crying and hungry, not putting on weight and i was exhausted through lack of sleep.

I was really sad to give up and was really emotional about it However as soon as i switched to formula she was a happier, more settled baby and she started putting on weight. Also i was finding i could be more efficient as i was getting more sleep.

I think that whatever decision you make will be the right one for you. Don't feel guilty or bad as bfing doesn't work for everyone. You are doing your best

 

[valentine]

this week i just want to spend in with her trying to bf as much as poss.

think my oh thinks it would be easier to just give her formula. i think its hard for him seeing us both upset, but generally he is quite supportive. my mum doesnt seem to understand why i am persevering when its taking so much out of me. i think mentally this is making the situation worse for me. i just want to give her the best start in life, i wish ppl would understand.

Aw hun - it sounds like you are doing brilliantly. It definitely doesn't sound like you are ready to give up, if the determination is there, I'd like to bet you'll battle through this - so many of us have been there and got through this difficult stage. It is one of the hardest things you'll ever do but you can do it, I promise!

The visitors issue is a difficult one - I found this really really hard when I was trying to learn to breastfeed. We had to allow people to only visit for one or two hours (we live out of town too so people travelled to see us from the nearby city or often further away) and really schedule in visitors so we had plenty of time just as a family. I remember OH phoning people and we had a kind of timetable for visitors on the computer, that's the only way we could do it and stay sane, I know it sounds mad. I totally respect people are excited but they also have to respect your right to privacy and time for both of you to bond with your baby - particularly in the very early days, when your OH is likely on paternity leave.

mw has given me the number of a private breast feeding advisor in my area today. will see how things go first as money is a bit tight at the mo.

I would STRONGLY advise that you save your pennies and don't pay for breastfeeding support - there is so much free help and advice out there, including people that will happily visit you in your own home and help you as much as you need. ASAP tomorrow, I would call the NCT Breastfeeding helpline or La Leche League for support, advice and help. Here are the numbers:-

NCT Breastfeeding helpline 0870 444 8708
La Leche League 0845 120 2918

...they both have local trained counsellors who can visit you and baby and this costs nothing.

I know that some posters have moved to formula due to problems with supply or latch and never looked back and I absolutely respect their decisions. However, you must ensure that this is correct decision for you, don't feel forced into it. I had the full support of my OH, Mum and Mother-in-law who were very pro-breastfeeding which was wonderful, but did feel slightly like an added pressure to succeed at the time. Your OH sounds great, but maybe you need to ask him to support you a bit more with trying to succeed at breastfeeding, exhaust all avenues of support then (and I bet you'll do it!) if its still not going well, you can look at other options - but forget them until then.

I would definitely keep at it petal - it sounds like you are so determined and I, for one, think you can do it. Its hard, but (growth spurts and night feeds excepted!) it gets so so much easier - no bottles, no sterilising and saving £5-£8 a week!

Let us know how you are getting on.

Valentine Xxx

 

[laracomps]

today has been a mixed bag. i felt she fed a lot better this morning, and kept feeding her whenever she wanted - which is pretty much constantly. she falls into a mega deep sleep on me, but if i try and put her down she screams cos she is hungry.

i persevered until lunchtime, but then she started screaming at the breast as well, and frantically trying to suck everything in sight - i am sure that no milk was coming out. so i caved and gave her a bottle, i can't bear to see her so desperate for food and not getting anything.

same thing then happened this evening. she feeds not badly, but ends up screaming after an hour or two of me trying. so again i had to give her a bottle - and now she is content again.

it is so so hard. i am not ready to give up yet. her swallowing is getting better, but in general i don't feel the situation improving. i am going to keep going for another few weeks at least - i have to for my sanity. i need to know i have tried everything.

has anyone tried a Supplemental Nursing System? I thought this might help, as although she is getting some formula, she will be getting it at my breast.

Thanks guys.

 

[happy-chick]

Sounds like your doin great hun, stick at it if its what u want to do. As valentine said you should be able to get free breastfeeding advice and im sure there will be a group in your area which i highly recommend trying because it really helped me, good luck

 

[beanie]

everyone has said everything I want to but I just wanted to add my support too. Seren was the same, constantly screaming for the boob, and it really got me down as I thought I was starving her but I wasn't, it is normal for them to want the breast constantly, they are telling your body what milk they need. She will be content after a bottle as what happens is that baby finds that their mouth fills with milk, swallows and in doing so gets more milk in their mouth. So they will swallow even if they are noit hungry, and with formula being a lot thicker it sits ikn their tummy and they just sleep. Breastfeeding requires baby to use their jaw muscles to get the milk, so it is more work for them. Plus as breastmilk is designed for your baby, they digest it loads quicker and therefore want more. Take it one day at a time, I personally found it easier to think - I'll get to the end of today, I'll continue till the end of this week/month etc and before I knew it we found our way and never looked back.

I so agree with Valentine, call the LLL or NCT, they are fantastic. Also ask your midwife if there is a local breastfeeding group near you that you can go along to. It really hrelps when you can meet with other mums that are going through/have gone through the same thing as you.

Whatever happens hun you are doing a great job. You have so not failed, every day you have breastfeed is something to be proud of and gives your baby so much so be proud!!

 

[laracomps]

i was very tearful again yesterday, so i rang the NCT helpline.

the lady said that because of the amount of formula she has been having, there is no way i can just stop giving it to her. i need to try and breastfeed every three hours, and gradually try and decrease the amount of formula phoebe has.

she also said that she doesn't think i have enough milk at the moment - which is what i suspected, and that it will be very hard to get it back up again.

i am trying my best, but even decreasing her top up slightly, she just won't sleep. she was awake all day yesterday. finally she fell asleep about 10 last night, just as a feed was due - then she will not wake up enough to even attempt to bf. in the end after 45 mins of trying, and me in tears, we gave her a bottle. which of course she gulped down.

i am finding night times very hard at the moment, i am so tired, i'm falling asleep with her on me, which worries me so much. last night i just gave her a bottle and expressed, i just needed some sleep.

she seems to be a bit lazy even with a bottle - most of it ends up all over her where it comes out of her mouth. i am using tommee tippee closer to nature teats. is this normal?

i bf her again this morning - thought perhaps she had fed a bit better? she still took all of her top up though. its so disheartening.

i feel i need to give it at least another week. its just so hard seeing what a different baby she is when she is full and satisfied from her bottle

 

[purple13]

you're doing so well honey. i know how tough it is cos i went through it too. i nearly gave up bf-ing cos connor wasn't feeding properly and spent most of his time screaming at my boob. i was starting to dislike him, and hate myself for it.

now we're exclusively bf-ing and i love it. it really is worthwhile persevering if you can - but don't beat yourself up about it if not. the most important thing is for your baby to have a happy mummy.

i'm sure you're doing this already, but make sure you rest loads (don't do any housework etc), drink and eat lots - and maybe try fenugreek - it works wonders for my flow. and do lots of skin to skin contact.

whatever you end up doing, it will get easier

ps. can you feed lying down? i get my sleep that way, with connor in bed next to me, cos he feeds every 2.5 hours - i'd be a wreck otherwise!

 

[Squiglet]

lil miss still screams at my boob... and I know there is milk there... its because she is tired and hungry but the tiredness means she just can't feed any more.

problem is... babies need to be on the boob all the time in the first 6 weeks... thats when your supply is established... and with guests this make it hard. Bfing requires a lot of hard work... but then in my opinion, so does formula... and there is no shame in choosing to formula feed your baby...

A happy mum means a happy baby and while, yes breast is best... its what you do when the begin to eat proper food that really counts... teaching good healthy eating habits that will stand them in good stead for the rest of their lives is important, and you can bf'd till they are 2 but if you have poor eating habits, then the benefits of bfing will be completely lost.

If you want to bf'd be prepared for a fight...lots of hard work... but the rewards are amazing. If you want to increase your supply.... express after every feed... even if its just 10 mins and 10 mls.... it encourages your boobs to think the baby requires more. Also... make up top ups, boob feed for at least 30mins, use both boobs, BEFORE you give the top up... but that baby needs to be on the boob all the time

Good luck... but please don't feel like a failure for bottle feeding... just giving your baby the first milk has given your LO unimaginable benefits... and this period of their lives is just so short that you need to treasure it...