HR Related Help Required

[iWitch]

Anyone work in HR who can offer advice? I am going to contact ACAS on Monday but I want as much info to help my mum out.

Here's the basics. She was set on a couple of years back, never had problems before. In feb my nan died (her mum) months after I lost 2 more of my grandparents. I was due days after she died so it was an extremely hard time for us. Needless to say she was signed off with depression.

A couple of her sicknote a were late (only by a day or so) her supervisor lost one so she had to get a 2nd. They invited her to a welfare meeting & she never received the letter (attended 2 previously). It's possible that the letter when to the nearby address ending in court & not drive as my mum has had their post before. They've made no other attempts to contact her (visit or phone call...if they rang they've never left a message) & sent her a letter advising they've dismissed her. We asked for copies of letters & policies - none received.

She appealed & went to a meeting (without me or a union rep) shortly after she's received a letter advising that they are upholding the decision but changing the reason to 'blatant lack of respect for company policies'. & told her she has no right to appeal.

So a) they've dismissed her without a hearing b) we've seen no evidence of letters sent c) she's never seen a policy & was only told to keep in touch with her supervisor which she has done d) they've changed the reason for dismissal without a hearing e) she has no right to appeal

Am I right in thinking she should have had the opportunity to attend a hearing prior to dismissal? It's not gross misconduct after all. I find it hard to believe that they've sent letters out & policies but these haven't been received yet there was no issue with the dismissal letter.

Can they change the reason for dismissal as easy as that? Not that this is even true! They also presented her supervisors statement that was Taken after the appeal hearing as evidence for her dismissal so she hasn't had the opportunity to challenge what her supervisor has said so of which she has evidence against. And lastly should all of that be allowed, if they're dismissing her for a whole new reason, she should be allowed the right to appeal, right?

At our place they make an allegation, carry out an investigation including a meeting with yourself. After that they would decide of it could result in disciplinary action & would hold a meeting with hr manager & our top manager who would decide on the outcome.

If the allegations are proven to be correct & this was their first sanction & was under gross misconduct they would get a warning or a final warning. If at any point they were to allege anything different, the process would start from scratch!

She'd never go back & work for them again but I think she's been dismissed unfairly. They terminated her contract in June yet sent no p45 out or anything!

Advice appreciated - thank you!

 

[clairem1980]

I've got some experience of HR, albeit in a small company.
My boss would often try and get rid of people without good reason so ended up with a couple of tribunal claims.
It sounds to me like they've handled it really badly and your mum has grounds to appeal and claim.
They can't change the reason for dismissal to suit themselves, especially using the supervisors statement made after she'd already been technically dismissed.
Definitely ring acas on Monday X good luck

 

[LoopyLouize]

Everybody has a right to appeal regardless of the circumstances.
Ring Acas ASAP. You have only 3 months from the said incident to bring any case to a tribunal.
Basically what will then happen is Acas will contact the company and your mum separately. They will then try to arrange a meeting with both parties and Acas will attend this meeting too. The aim of this is to attempt to resolve the issue before it is taken to a tribunal stage. Its aim is also to prevent the expense of courts fees. Apparently now, you cannot go for a tribunal unless this meeting with Acas has been held and unresolved. I hope this information helps. Good luck to your mum.
X

 

[iWitch]

Thanks ladies. She has appealed but then they said the decision will be upheld but for different reason then said she does not have the right to appeal presumably because she's appealed already but since the reasons changed how can the decision be upheld xx

 

[Pumpkin9]

I'm not hr but in my job a regularly hold hearings, look at appeals etc.. And it seems abit dodgy to me. Obviously I don't know the companies policies but from my own experience your mum should be entitled I see all the policies and have copies of all the letters etc..

I have known people to be dismissed before when they haven't responded to calls, letters etc. but they hadn't been in contact for months and refused to provide information which is not your mums case.

In theory your looking at employment tribunal here as you have exhausted the companies appeal process

 

[Pumpkin9]

I would add that companies often have different processes for
Ill health as opposed to misconduct and they therefore wouldn't necessarily investigate it hold hearings but would hold ill health meetings to try and support the employee back to work.

Hope you got on alright with acas

 

[Rachel80]

She would definitely have grounds to take them to an employment tribunal. They don't have a leg to stand on. I would contact citizens advice & they'll point you in the right directions. In the meantime write a timeline of everything that's happened including when your mum had kept in contact with them & gather as much evidence as you can - copies of texts, emails, letters etc. They are on very very dangerous ground here & you can't sack someone without a hearing at the very least. We've had people off sick for years, yes in some cases it would be easier if they weren't on the payroll but in reality, sick pay usually stops after a year so it doesn't matter anyway. But we could never sack them without legal support, & certainly it would have to be medically documented that they will never be fit to work - & even then it would probably involve a payout. Unless of course she was in a probationary period - then that'd a whole other story.

 

[Pumpkin9]

Strictly speaking you can sack someone on the grounds of capability, which is different to being unfit to work, but anywho I don't believe they've done themselves any favours, sounds to me like unfair dismissal.

 

[Smithy1980]

I work in HR and agree this is very dodgy. They should have clear sickness procedures which document every meeting and letter sent out. From these meetings she should have several levels of sickness warnings (if you like) before it is decided whether it is a capability or disciplinary action. Then the company goes down which route it sees fit. In either case she is entitled to representation, agreed outcomes and again everything documented. She should also have access to all company policies and all letters. She can also request a copy of her personal file at any time. I agree she needs to call ACAS, as I think she definitely has grounds for a claim.

 

[bricey]

I don't know the answers but going forward make sure they send any correspondence signed for post