Breast Milk plus a few other questions further down the page

nori

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Hi Mums,

A fair few of my friends have had babies recently and a couple of them have said that they switched to formula as "their milk didnt come in"

I know this was covered in my breastfeeding class but cant for the life of me remember what they said. Whats the situation with this? Is it sometimes a case of your body never producing the milk and its just one of those things or is it just the fact it was taking a bit longer to produce.

Im confused... :?

Claire x
 
A woman not producing milk is actually exceptionally rare. If it was as common as it is made out to be nowadays, the human race would not exist. I would say around 60% of mothers say that their milk didn't come in or they didn't produce enough milk (I was told the same thing with both my girls, that I didn't produce enough milk, but the second time round I'd done my research). In which case talking anthropologically, you are talking about a species wide extinction, if that was actually true.

Sadly its more to do with the ignorance of breastfeeding and what is natural, that make mothers "not produce enough milk" or that "their milk doesn't come in". It can take up to a week for the milk to come in, especially in first time births, and traumatic births. By which time some uneducated medical professional, has introduced formula to a very panicky, often inexperienced mother... Babies are born with vast amounts of brown fat to compensate for this though. This is fat that they use during the time they are born and the time that the milk does come in. Most medical professionals go by formula fed baby weight charts which obviously show a baby gaining significant weight in a short period of time after birth... but this is abnormal. Breastfed babies feed constantly, and need to be cradled next to you near the breast as often as possible, to allow them freedom to feed. This is obviously constricting in todays modern society, you can't walk around with your boob hanging out, but human evolution never took into account humans and their current beliefs.. But then many natural things have been sacrificed because of modern society. :(

This leads people to not put the baby to the breast that often, and they therefore tell their body that it doesn't need to produce so much milk, which it needs to because in those first few weeks your baby grows faster than at any other time in its life. So your baby screams at the breast because it isn't producing enough.... And once you bring formula into the equation., your body never produces enough unless you actively take the formula out, experience several sleepless nights, and a screaming baby all day to bring your supply up to what it should be.

IMHO babies shouldn't actually be separated from their mothers for at least 4 months. It means carrying them everywhere, feeding them all the time, sleeping with them... but that is just what feels natural to me. They have just spent 9 months cared for in your tummy in every way, never felt hunger, never felt cold, never felt pain, never been exposed to harsh bright light, and within one day we expect them to be separated from us, left in a cold empty moses basket, and fed every 2/3 hours like it says on the tin... it seems cruel almost :(

Breast feeding is very labour intensive. Its harder than pregnancy too especially with so much medical intervention telling us what is right and what is wrong. Its a skill both mother and baby need to learn.. .and any one who has learnt to ride a bike or to speak another language knows that it doesn't come over night, and a lot of hard work and effort need to be applied in order to succeed. :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
 
Thanks Squiglet. My plan of action is to keep the baby on the boob as much as possible for the first week or so then and to not panic about how much milk they are getting. Im not sure i could go 4 months without the baby being away from me atall (may need a bath in that time! lol)

I can see what you are saying about the fact the baby has been in the tummy for all that time and we do kind of expect them to adjust straight away. Again, i think educating people about this kind of thing should happen in hospitals or before the birth.

Claire x
 
What squiglet said!
my baby became dehydrated and nearly had to go hospital because i didn't realise that she needed to feed ALL the time- i too fell for the trap of thinking that she'd only need to feed every 2/3 hours plus my little princess wouldn't latch on so it was hard work- i feel really stupid and guilty now about all this. but anyway, the point i wanted to make is that it does take time and despite the posters in the hospitals about 'breast being best' the staff (in my hosp anyway) just don't have the time to help. i had one midwife who was going off shift so she spent a bit of time with me but another one just gave a bottle of formula which i refused to use- i was also quite shocked at this- after all the posters everywhere!

if you do have any problems in the beginning defo come on here and ask- wish i had in the beginning then i would have realised what was normal.
 
exactly what sqig said - what a FAB post!!!

have a look in third tri for the breast buddies post and get yourself a buddie! :)
 
nori's got a buddy - me!

Definitely agree that its very rare for a woman not to produce milk, often women say this as they don't really want to breastfeed (but felt they should give it a go) or haven't given it long enough after the birth or they've had a traumatic birth with intervention and no post birth skin-to-skin so their milk takes a little longer to replace the colostrum.

You can do it nori!

Valentine Xxx
 
the midwife told me in hospital, to feed baby every hour for 15mins... when first born, i did this and my milk came in day 4 after birth.. she said the more the baby is on boob the quicker it should happen as it bring the milk down thru the glands or something.. and when your LO has his/her hands on your boobs thats a natural way of the milk being told to come in aswell..

i dont know if this is true but just passing on info.. xx
 
What Squiglet said is absolutely true. Don't worry about having to have a bath - baby can come too. It's is by far the nicest way to bath them.
 
Thanks ladies, i showed my OH the thread so he has a better understanding of it too (incase i decide its all too much at any point and he can support me.. as well as my breastbuddy valentine!)

I'm quite happy to keep baby with me the majority of the time until the breastfeeding is established but i really want my OH to be a big part of this too. Surely if the baby is always with me then that cant really happen?

At first i know that "routine" is out the window but a few weeks down the line i'd like to have some sort of routine? HOw can this happen if the baby is always with me?

Ive also noticed that my dear niece is a nightmare when it comes to crying if she isnt getting ALL the attention ALL the time. I'm determined not to go down this road and want my baby to be content in other peoples company. Wont the baby just rely on me too much if he or she is always with me?

Oh dear.. i appear to have digressed!

Probably silly questions but thought id ask..maybe im thinking too much! lol

Claire x
 
Hi :wave:
My OH was very much included in other day to day things with the baby like changing nappies, bathing and she would also sleep on him too. So he definately had a great part to play he just didnt get to feed her.

Calleigh has always been with me, (not always being held but i am there with her IYKWIM) i think i have possibly left her for no more than and hour so far and TBH it hasnt done her any harm. She is very independant little madam and is not at all clingy. She can play by herself and is fine with other people (she eyes them up a bit then once thats done she is happy with them :lol: ), and the bond she has with her daddy is so fantastic :D

When it comes to routine i wouldnt worry too much about it in the early weeks at all, just go with what your baby needs. I fell in with what fits my LO best. I could see a kinda pattern to her feeding and waking and worked with that. Now she is in a routine that works well for the both of us.
 
Hello buddy!

nori said:
I'm quite happy to keep baby with me the majority of the time until the breastfeeding is established but i really want my OH to be a big part of this too. Surely if the baby is always with me then that cant really happen?
This is a really literal interpretation of the phrase. In reality, you can be in a different room or pop to the local shop for 10 mins or go for a nap or make the tea or be on the phone or have a bath, as long as you are nearby if baby needs fed and happy just to drop what you're doing and hoick up your top.

OH will get loads of time with baby - nappy changes, changing clothes, in the sling for a walk, pushing the pram and newborns love Daddy's chests to sleep on!

nori said:
At first i know that "routine" is out the window but a few weeks down the line i'd like to have some sort of routine? HOw can this happen if the baby is always with me?
Again, really literal interpretation. Baby should always be nearby if you're breastfeeding, especially until feeding settles down, but a routine is possible. We started at 6.5 weeks and believe it or not, DD slept through at 7 weeks old - 12 hours! Until this point, we'd been putting her down in her moses basket for naps which was in the living room with us, then we carried it through at night when we went to bed. When we established the routine, we started with a nappy off time at 5.30pm, bath at 6pm, story/playtime 6.30pm then bed in the moses basket in our bedroom at 7pm. This worked a treat!

So you can be in different rooms, you don't have to be physically together 24/7 for the first few months, although if you have a colicy or unsettled or particularly hungry baby, it may feel like this!

nori said:
Ive also noticed that my dear niece is a nightmare when it comes to crying if she isnt getting ALL the attention ALL the time. I'm determined not to go down this road and want my baby to be content in other peoples company. Wont the baby just rely on me too much if he or she is always with me?
In my personal opinion, this is really dependant on baby's character and personality. My DD is happiest in her own company, loves to play on her own and doesn't mind being left alone while we go and do something else and this has been since she was small. We have been careful not to hold her 24/7 or cuddle or feed her to sleep and I think this has also helped, but believe its 90% her born personality. Some babies hate to be left alone or with other people, my DD loves baby group and just about jumps out of my arms to go and play with the other babies and different toys but some of her friends are a bit more shy and hide behind their Mummy's legs for the duration of the group or cry if forced to sit down and play.

I hope this helps!

Valentine Xxx
 
valentine said:
Hello buddy!

nori said:
Until this point, we'd been putting her down in her moses basket for naps which was in the living room with us, then we carried it through at night when we went to bed.
Valentine Xxx

This is what i was going to do.. put baby in the moses basket for naps rather than sleeping with me but is this better to do later on (as in after a few weeks) rather than straight away? I know there is so much evidence that co-sleeping is safe etc.. but i dont think id feel comfortable incase i roll onto the baby! The baby will be in the same room as us until we move house (which will be months) but id rather we were sleeping seperately ( i may well change my mind when the baby is here!).

I think i just need to take it as it comes dont i? I feel my control freak side taking over! lol
 
Calleigh never slept in with me, only maybe of a morning where i would bring her in for her morning feed and we would have another hours sleep together. She has always slept in a moses basket/cot.

In the day i would have her sleep on me or OH then eventually she napped in my room on my bed or now she naps in her own room in her cot.
 
Hey,

I would really recommend waiting to see how you feel at the time, its amazing how much instinct and maternal feeling takes over and what didn't feel right, suddenly feels like the only thing that'll work. I have spent the last 15/16 months muddling through and we're both still here, I think most people would say the same.

I always put DD in moses basket for naps, unless she feel asleep on OH in the very early days. We were told by our (lovely) Health Visitor that baby's neural pathways don't merge until 5/6 weeks and they've no memory until then so she said a few bad habits were okay when she was tiny (i.e. sleeping on OH when she was under 6 weeks!).

I did co-sleep when DD woke up during the night (before she started sleeping through at 7 weeks, then again when she stopped between 4-7 months) and this worked well with b/feeding throughout the night. Its really up to you - its either for you or its not, we did a bit of both.

During the day she has always slept in bouncy chair (pre 6 months), moses basket or cot.

Valentine Xxx
 
Well I pretty much didn't leave lil miss alone for 4 months of her life... other than once for about an hour for a job interview. She went through her clingy phase (all babies do at some point, usually called separation anxiety, even the ones who aren't held all the time).

As for the daddy thing... trust me, enjoy being your baby's number 1 person for a while, because lil miss is all papa papa papa at the moment. :roll: more than he wants at times :rotfl:

Shes more than happy to play by herself now, although she likes company, more because she gets bored :lol: ... and she was held 24/7 really... so I agree with Valentine that its down to personality more...

Lil miss wouldn't go down in her own cot at first, neither would Tia and now they both do.... :D doesnt matter what you do with kids they always find a way to make things difficult for you :lol:
 
Squiglet said:
As for the daddy thing... trust me, enjoy being your baby's number 1 person for a while, because lil miss is all papa papa papa at the moment. :roll: more than he wants at times :rotfl:

Oh god that's the truth! I BF DD exclusively and it did nothing to prevent her bonding with her dad, she is such a Daddy's girl you wouldn't believe it. We went through a really tough stage where she wanted everything to be done by Daddy, it was annoying for me because sometimes you just want to get it done yourself, but then again I figure it was pay back for all the time spent BF!!

I know a lot of parents worry about the dad "not bonding" because they're not feeding the baby but DD is proof that feeding a child is not the only route to bond. OH used to do his fair share of nappies and got involved in other ways, she loved falling asleep on him when she was tiny.

As for being clingy, as others have said (they are very wise ladies!) all children go through clingy stages, some last longer than others but I think it all comes down to personality. DD loves being independent but has a shy nature too and sometimes still wants to hide her face from new people or situations etc.
 
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