The Virgin Daughters

[zebrastripes]

Tonight at 9,Channel 4

The purity movement in America is something that I really disagree with (not because I think everyone should be shagging round,obviously)

The "giving" of a girls chastity into the hands of her father echoes an earlier, less liberated age,in which a girl was the possession of her menfolk, her virginity a tool to advance the fortunes of her family,often to the detriment of the girl herself. I think it's awful that one in six girls in the USA today think...or are coerced into thinking...that this is a good idea. If a woman cannot be responsible for her own sexual freedom, then what is she responsible for?
Also,to me this creates unnecessary and unhelpful feelings of guilt...this isn't just a ban on sex, this is thinking that your first kiss should even be saved for your wedding day.

I just think it inhibits natural growth and relationships....plus it doesn't seem to work very well...look at Bristol Palin...and even if the girls do manage to maintain their "purity", at what cost? Spending the rest of their lives with a man to whom they are sexually incompatible?

Even the word "purity"....implying that if you have had sex you are "impure"........gosh, there's just so much wrong with that...

Anyway,ranting aside,it'll be interesting to see in what light this documentary portrays the whole thing

 

[Snuggle]

I'll be watching it hun

 

[Mildly]

I'm recording this tonight so I can watch it tomorrow. I think it'll be interesting to watch, I am always fascinated by the right wing US culture and marvel at how things seem much more extreme over the ocean.

 

[lfc_sarah]

Watching

 

[ShineyHappyPeople]

Tonight at 9,Channel 4

The purity movement in America is something that I really disagree with (not because I think everyone should be sh*gging round,obviously)

The "giving" of a girls chastity into the hands of her father echoes an earlier, less liberated age,in which a girl was the possession of her menfolk, her virginity a tool to advance the fortunes of her family,often to the detriment of the girl herself. I think it's awful that one in six girls in the USA today think...or are coerced into thinking...that this is a good idea. If a woman cannot be responsible for her own sexual freedom, then what is she responsible for?
Also,to me this creates unnecessary and unhelpful feelings of guilt...this isn't just a ban on sex, this is thinking that your first kiss should even be saved for your wedding day.

I just think it inhibits natural growth and relationships....plus it doesn't seem to work very well...look at Bristol Palin...and even if the girls do manage to maintain their "purity", at what cost? Spending the rest of their lives with a man to whom they are sexually incompatible?

Even the word "purity"....implying that if you have had sex you are "impure"........gosh, there's just so much wrong with that...

Anyway,ranting aside,it'll be interesting to see in what light this documentary portrays the whole thing

I have to disagree with you on this one, I think its absolutely beautiful and wholesome. You shouldn't have to sleep around with different people to find if your compatible or not, if you love them then thats enough and you build and learn from the intimate aspects of that. I know saving their first kiss seems a bit extreme and over the top, but at the end of the day, they don't want to tempt themselves into giving into sex and I see that as a good thing.

The fathers are in no way controlling their daughters, they are simply looking out for them and don't want them to be used and want them to have that special wedding night.

Why do you say it doesn't work very well? These girls are willing to keep themselves for the right guy to come along (same as the boy) and when they know they are right for each other, they plan to commit their lives to each other until old and grey and chances are, those relationships will last. The norm in the uk seems to be to start sleeping and experimenting with guys from 16 or younger and be in and out of relationships all the time along with havig children to different fathers, relationships just don't last long anymore. So the fact that these people want to try and make that commitment is brilliant. They are doing it the hard way because they will have to try and not give into the pressures of their teens but if they are determined to keep themselves then it may be harder at the time but it will be worth it.

Please remember that the fathers look out for their boys just as much as the girls. Its not about their girls being their property, its about him loving them so much that hes going to try to protect them like a father should.

My goodness that was long! I don't expect many people to agree with me because these views are hated by most people

 

[widowwadman]

At what age do these girls make that "decision"? (Haven't watched the show as I was laughing at the bonkers guy who thought he could read babies' minds on channel 5 instead, but I think I've read somewhere that this was about fairly young kids).

Personally, I find it wrong if children are indoctrinated that abstinence is the only sensible way, rather than educating them about sex, relationships and all that goes with it, so that they can make an informed choice about what they want to do without being made feel guilty.

If a girl wants to stay abstinent, that's ok, but it must be her own decision, not her father or whoever telling her to. It doesn't look like that these girls can turn to their parents for advice when they enter their first relationships.

 

[zebrastripes]

Tonight at 9,Channel 4

The purity movement in America is something that I really disagree with (not because I think everyone should be sh*gging round,obviously)

The "giving" of a girls chastity into the hands of her father echoes an earlier, less liberated age,in which a girl was the possession of her menfolk, her virginity a tool to advance the fortunes of her family,often to the detriment of the girl herself. I think it's awful that one in six girls in the USA today think...or are coerced into thinking...that this is a good idea. If a woman cannot be responsible for her own sexual freedom, then what is she responsible for?
Also,to me this creates unnecessary and unhelpful feelings of guilt...this isn't just a ban on sex, this is thinking that your first kiss should even be saved for your wedding day.

I just think it inhibits natural growth and relationships....plus it doesn't seem to work very well...look at Bristol Palin...and even if the girls do manage to maintain their "purity", at what cost? Spending the rest of their lives with a man to whom they are sexually incompatible?

Even the word "purity"....implying that if you have had sex you are "impure"........gosh, there's just so much wrong with that...

Anyway,ranting aside,it'll be interesting to see in what light this documentary portrays the whole thing

I have to disagree with you on this one, I think its absolutely beautiful and wholesome. You shouldn't have to sleep around with different people to find if your compatible or not, if you love them then thats enough and you build and learn from the intimate aspects of that. I know saving their first kiss seems a bit extreme and over the top, but at the end of the day, they don't want to tempt themselves into giving into sex and I see that as a good thing.

The fathers are in no way controlling their daughters, they are simply looking out for them and don't want them to be used and want them to have that special wedding night.

Why do you say it doesn't work very well? These girls are willing to keep themselves for the right guy to come along (same as the boy) and when they know they are right for each other, they plan to commit their lives to each other until old and grey and chances are, those relationships will last. The norm in the uk seems to be to start sleeping and experimenting with guys from 16 or younger and be in and out of relationships all the time along with havig children to different fathers, relationships just don't last long anymore. So the fact that these people want to try and make that commitment is brilliant. They are doing it the hard way because they will have to try and not give into the pressures of their teens but if they are determined to keep themselves then it may be harder at the time but it will be worth it.

Please remember that the fathers look out for their boys just as much as the girls. Its not about their girls being their property, its about him loving them so much that hes going to try to protect them like a father should.

My goodness that was long! I don't expect many people to agree with me because these views are hated by most people

I never said sleeping round is a good idea. I think it's quite a bad one actually.
having relationships...and by the way, I don't mean sleeping around..is part of your teenage years. A very natural part. Teenagers are sexual beings, that may seem distasteful,but it's true and it always has been. Why do you think the age of consent was 12 until about 120 years ago?
Some people sleep around,yes. You'll always have people who're like that.
I'm saying it "doesn't work very well",I'm sure it does for some, but one of those girls got pregnant at 21 and was/is being treated like she's the Whore of Babylon by her mother. How is that good,or Christian. it's not.

Another of the girls got married after she'd known her boyfriend 8 months, five of which he was in Iraq. You can't "know each others hearts" in that amount if time especially when half of it he has spent with your dad. Wonder how long that'll last,or if it'll be a happy marriage?

Anyway,I don't actually care what an individual does with her vagina. I really don't.The issue I take here is a much wider one: the fact that this isn't actually about a 15 year old in Texas or whatever refusing to kiss a boy. It's about extreme right wing fundamentalists attempting to suppress the freedoms and liberties women have fought so hard for. They can dress it up in the Bible and pretty dresses but that's what it's about

 

[Tadpole]

Anyway,I don't actually care what an individual does with her vagina. I really don't.The issue I take here is a much wider one: the fact that this isn't actually about a 15 year old in Texas or whatever refusing to kiss a boy. It's about extreme right wing fundamentalists attempting to suppress the freedoms and liberties women have fought so hard for. They can dress it up in the Bible and pretty dresses but that's what it's about

If I have done my job well I shouldn't have to extract a 'purity promise' from my daughter in order for her to respect herself. Her sense of self and worth should be based on things such as her abilities, the way she interacts with others, a sense of justice etc. Not whether or not she is a virgin. I want her to wait until she is emotionally mature but I feel too much emphasis was put on this being the only way the girls could be good people - everything else was kind of ignored as not necessary. Their worth is not in an intact hymen.

That is not to say I condone sleeping around but there is a vast amount of middle ground between not even kissing till your wedding day and getting jiggy with every tom, dick & harry. And as ZS says, having a baby at 21 and not married shouldn't make you the pariah of the parish.

 

[zebrastripes]

Anyway,I don't actually care what an individual does with her vagina. I really don't.The issue I take here is a much wider one: the fact that this isn't actually about a 15 year old in Texas or whatever refusing to kiss a boy. It's about extreme right wing fundamentalists attempting to suppress the freedoms and liberties women have fought so hard for. They can dress it up in the Bible and pretty dresses but that's what it's about

If I have done my job well I shouldn't have to extract a 'purity promise' from my daughter in order for her to respect herself. Her sense of self and worth should be based on things such as her abilities, the way she interacts with others, a sense of justice etc. Not whether or not she is a virgin. I want her to wait until she is emotionally mature but I feel too much emphasis was put on this being the only way the girls could be good people - everything else was kind of ignored as not necessary. Their worth is not in an intact hymen.

That is not to say I condone sleeping around but there is a vast amount of middle ground between not even kissing till your wedding day and getting jiggy with every tom, dick & harry. And as ZS says, having a baby at 21 and not married shouldn't make you the pariah of the parish.

Hear,hear!

 

[Squiglet]

I believe in abstinence teaching, I disagree with the way they teach it. We should give our girls all the information, empower their self confidence and let them make the choice. Not lie to them or gloss over the truth, belittle them for being dirty or impure. We need to teach them that they have the power in the relationship... and are far more mature and clued up than their male counter parts, and the most mature, sexy and powerful thing they can do is say no.... and it sends men wild... why play a video game when you've completed all the levels .... and sex is one thing relationships are something far more complex. Abstinence teaching is all very good but without the relationship teaching, you risk raising a generation of misguided unhappy women trapped in relationships they are too afraid to leave for fear that they will be impure... potentially trapping some poor women in violent relationships.