WTT for baby 2 but concerned about blood loss and traumatic labour

[MayBMore]

Hi ladies

We aren't TTC baby 2 just yet (even though I am VERY broody!) but I just have a few anxieties at the back of my mind concerning the birth of baby 2 when/if it does happen - I shall explain...

I had a fairly smooth pregnancy with my first daughter (born May last year) until the very end when I was sent off to hospital with slightly high blood pressure and they decided to induce me - DON'T READ IF EXPECTING AND NERVOUS (this isn't what normally happens)

I reacted badly to the pessary straight away within about 20 mins I was having forced contractions one after the other but didn't know if I was overreacting ?? (I could hear other women in the ward laughing and chatting away with their partners) but I was keeled over...anyway eventually they realised I had started reacting straight away and thus I had to lie still whilst my baby was monitored overnight (she was fine but I wasn't OUCH)...they came several times during the night each time I told them how much pain I was in - I was given paracetamol and codeine. By the morning I was exhausted and in tears when my partner arrived...I was advised to try to rest again by the midwife (which I was trying my best to do!!)

A few minutes later I think despite all the will in the world my body just lost control and I started to hyper-react to the pessary (multiple contractions) I ended up in a ball on the floor - the team rushed in and removed the pessary (finally!!) and I was wheeled off to the labour ward.

After that I actually started to feel so much better, I even managed to have a wash and a chat with my partner and the midwife...I started to get my own normal contractions which I could deal with on gas and air..that was a breeze compared to what had just happened. We waited for a few hours but unfortunately my own contractions weren't strong enough quickly enough and I hadn't dilated enough so they decided I needed the drip....considering what happened with the pessary I thought it was best to have an epidural and I'm glad I did.

The epidural was amazing! I could still feel my contractions and move my legs but no pain..aaah bliss. All was going well until the end when I was very nearly fully dilated my baby girl started to get distressed and her heart rate dropped so again the team rushed in and whisked us off for an emergency c section. Despite all that this is the most scary part for me - during my c section I lost quite a lot of blood and had to have 2 bags of blood via a transfusion...my partner said he saw the light go out of my eyes and I was so out of it I literally thought I would only have the chance to kiss my daughter and I was a gonner. I couldn't breath and could feel the epidural right up to my collar bone!! I had dissociated myself from the scene as well because it was too traumatic (I was actually singing a song in my head the whole time).

I'm really sorry for anyone getting totally freaked out reading this! It does get better now promise - my baby girls apgar score was 6 so the medical team had made the right choice in the end and she is perfectly beautiful and healthy...Although I was pale and weak and I couldn't breast feed I made a swift and full recovery and was totally elated and no problems since...

apart from the fear of losing that much blood again. I was told after that I would be able to have an elective c section and be consultant led if I want another baby.

My question to you ladies is - has anyone else had a similar trauma with baby 1 but a nice and lovely stress free planned c section with baby 2? haha Anyone? Please?

 

[Ella1979]

Simple answer: yes!

I had an emergency c-section with my first baby for pre-eclampsia, IUGR and foetal distress (I was ok with pessary induction, but baby's heart rate kept dropping dangerously low). They removed the pessary PDQ and I was whisked in for a c-section. Baby was tiny and needed to go to SCBU, but APGAR of 9.

My second pregnancy wasn't without a couple of problems (gestational diabetes, polyhydramnios), but I was given the choice between an induction (no way in hell) and an elective c-section. I obviously went with the section and it was nothing like the first. I walked into theatre, was able to laugh and joke with the surgical team and got to hold my little boy straight after he was born. It was an amazing experience. No stress! Well, hardly any - I'm not a fan of the spinal anaesthetic xx

 

[MayBMore]

Thank you Ella x

That is so reassuring. I'm glad you and your babies are fine now and your second c section went smoothly, that was exactly what I needed to hear to be honest. I guess it isn't the medical teams fault first time around they can't have known I was going to react so badly to induction but knowing now that I might hyper-react there's no chance I'd be happy to be induced again. I think all of that stress can be avoided if I opt for an elective c section.

I am planning (nearer the time, if I successfully conceive ) to go and ask the midwife/consultant to recall my notes and find out exactly why I bled so much as what happened wasn't really explained to me afterwards and I was too busy trying to breastfeed and look after little one to ask. I was MASSIVE tho and had polyhydramnios during pregnancy which sorted itself out towards the end, maybe that had something to do with it? Or maybe it was to do with the blood flow during forced labour?

I know each pregnancy and labour is different and don't tend to dwell on the trauma of it all too much now but still have some underlying concerns.

Thanks for your help xx

 

[Toria111]

With my first baby, both my son and I almost died. 52 hour back to back labour, baby got stuck, 2 failed ventouse, forcepts while they rushed me to theatre, baby had shoulder distocia, severely jaundiced. I needed op straight after birth to repair the internal damage they caused with forcepts. Lost lots of blood too, I was so out of it. Didn't find out till I was out of hospital that they forgot my blood transfusion! We had 10 days recovering in hospital, followed by 6 months of physio for me.

Swore I was never having another baby! And I cried my eyes out for weeks after I found out I was pregnant with my second. I had to have section because of damage caused with first labour. But it was the easiest! Calm, relaxed, not tired. I was out after 48 hours, out for lunch then off to ikea!

Now on baby 3, and only worry I have is the needle in my hand.

 

[MayBMore]

Wow Toria...and I thought mine was bad! That sounds awful. I know it's been a while now and you had an easy peasey elective c-section (thank you for sharing by the way ) but did you seek any advice/counselling about the trauma of it all afterwards? Esp with hightened anxieties when you found out you were pregnant again. I've gone into baby craving mode which is why I think it's all come to mind again...I'm thinking of seeking some extra help dealing with it - either through birth trauma association or my NCT teacher has said she can put me in touch with the head of supervisors of midwifry.

Hopefully I will feel more relaxed about trying for baby 2 ...these posts are a big help too thank you x

 

[BunnyN]

Honestly it sounds to me like you were a victim of "the intervention cascade". It seems like your body over reacted to the pessary and that put stress on your body and the baby. If you had had the chance to go into labour naturally there is no reason to believe you would have had any problems.

I have a friend who lost a lot of blood with her last baby and has just had her 3rd after a quick and easy labour so things can be very different next time. If you decide on a planned CS I have heard they are really different from emergency ones. And if you have a VBAC they don't like to do inductions with those so you may have a better chance of the birth going normally.

 

[MayBMore]

I think you're right Bunny x

I am in touch with what's going on with my body and ok granted I did have high blood pressure at the end but they put me on some tablets to sort it out before I went in to be induced..and when I went back in I told them I'd stopped taking them as they made me feel like I was going to pass out (even the midwife said it sounds like your blood pressure had stabilised)...also the day after I returned home after the c section I felt like I lost a lot of water all of a sudden. I felt a significant difference if you know what I mean? I think that was the day I would've naturally given birth.

I don't want to hold a grudge against the medical team, they were just doing what they thought was in my best interest at the time (and I just went along with it) I'll be a bit wiser next time x

 

[fao]

I was going to say the same thing as Bunny. Is there any good reason why you cannot go into labour and deliver naturally? It would always be my choice over any sort of intervention, which to me should only be a last resort. I'm sorry to hear you had a traumatic experience. I did to a lesser extent with my first, and it took me a long time to get over it. It fuelled my desire for subsequent babies to avoid medical meddling if it could be avoided. Since had 2 wonderful natural births with great midwives and easily manageable pain. Not a drip or instrument in sight, lol!

I think you are doing the right thing asking for your noted and trying to understand what went wrong, and how it can be avoided this time. Also, have a good talk with your midwife or doctor about it when you fall pregnant as you can fully explore options and discuss pros and cons with them. Never take what they say as gospel, as there will always be differing medical views, so challenge them and make them explain any recommendations they make and don't feel forced to do anything. It is your choice, and they are there to explain risks and to advise. I find they sometimes get a bit bullying if you don't agree with them, so take someone with you to help explain your views and concerns and to support you.

 

[BunnyN]

I agree with fao. If interventions are recommended then make sure you are informed about the risks and your options. It really bothers me how sometimes doctors are quick to push for interventions and slow to explain the possible implications. All doctors have the tendency to think their way is the right way but sometimes it is luck of the draw what you end up with so its good to have your own opinions and stick up for them too. I think you are keeping a good attitude though by not getting bitter about what everyone felt was the best way to go at the time. Now you are more aware of the fact that interventions can go wrong and that your body has a tendency to react strongly you are in a position to make more informed choices next time.

 

[MayBMore]

Thanks for your input ladies x

I originally was totally open minded about having a natural birth or c section, my plan was to see what happens. But now I can see how that attitude helped me mentally prepare for any outcome but it also left me in the hands of others, now I have reason to be worried (about blood loss) I will be more specific about what I want or don't want rather (i.e to be induced).

Good news is that my nct tutor has put me in touch with supervisor of midwifes and I'm going to ring her tommo to arrange a meeting to discuss everything. I'm really glad I'm doing this actually x

 

[Ella1979]

Did you manage to arrange a meeting? Great idea from your NCT tutor. It's always worth running through all the options.

 

[MayBMore]

Hey Ella ooops I didn't have chance to call yet as we had to go out today. Will phone her tommo. The lady my NCT tutor has passed me on to is the senior midwife for high risk care and also supervisor of midwives - eek! big boss nurse. When I call tommo I'm going to ask to specifically go over the reason for my blood loss so may have to wait for her to access my notes. I'll go through everything else too, about my safest options for baby 2.

I'll get back in touch to say how it goes if peeps are interested...might help someone else in a similar situation to me

 

[BunnyN]

You may find they feel a highly medicalised birth is the safest and sometimes that is the right thing but it could be that less intervention is actually what makes birth safe for you, just worth considering. Listen to what they have to say but keep your mind open to options outside their box too.

 

[Phoebes_mum]

Staceymo I'm trying to make a decision about vbac or C-section now. I would say that if it plays on your mind get some counselling now. I've just had my second session of counselling and wish I hadn't left it until I was pregnant again.

I was induced. I didn't have your problems but I started bleeding bright red blood at 11pm. I knew this wasn't right as I'd been to antenatal classes and they had said worry about bright red, browny is probably just a show. Hospital staff kept trying to convince me it was a show (however the next day one midwife said to me, you lost a lot of blood didn't you?) They finally took me to labour ward at 2am. Due to past medical history I was only meant to push for 1 hour, I pushed for 3. However DD 'failed to go into 3rd stage'. (Makes me feel like I've failed). And finally at 9.30 in the morning I was taken for an emergency C-section. I always knew this could happen due the pushing limit so it wasn't a shock and I was just glad for it all to be over. However my issue is with what happened after. I hadn't realised how long it would take them to stitch me up and because it's so difficult to hold baby whilst still lying on the operating table (as you would know) I told my hubby to take DD and I'd hold her when I was out of theatre. So he held her and I watched. Then they moved him back to the labour room with her. When I got back an hour and 20 minutes after she was born my hubby and mum (I'd asked for her to be there too) had put her in her first grow and I still feel so sad that that was taken away from me. So now I'm trying to decide whether to try for vbac and hope it doesn't end the same way (I DO NOT want to be induced again) or to go elective but try to make every thing that was wrong last time right this time.

So I guess my advice is try and get the way you feel sorted now rather than waiting because it seems to be a bigger issue once you're pregnant again. xx

 

[MayBMore]

Thank you Phoebes mum x that really hit home what you said about not being able to hold your daughter properly straight away, I went through a similar state, my partner was ushered in and out of theatre and he didn't know whether to go to me (because he genuinely thought I was on my way out) or to our new baby. We were both in total shock and wondered what the hell we had just been through when trying to reflect on it when we got home.

I didn't get to experience the bonding rush that others describe. I felt relief when I heard her cry and kissed her in a desperate (out of it state) because I thought that would be all I could at least manage. At the time it really did feel like that. Afterwards I couldn't move (but I guess that's the same with all c sections) and struggled to hold her to me, I knew she was in distress and needed comforting so I did the best I could touching her head. My partner had to go home and I couldn't sleep even though desperately needed to and couldn't breastfeed. In the end I had to give in and let the nurses feed her formula...but they take your baby off you to do that so I felt useless.

As soon as possible I was determined to recover and did so really quickly (thankfully). Also when we got home I felt an overwhelming sense of elation which lasted for about 4 days (my NCT tutor said that's probably because you went through a trauma with your baby and survived)...I wondered if it was the bonding rush but delayed and prolonged?

Even though I'm mostly ok now I still have it circling round in my head with unanswered questions. We both definitely want more bambinos so I think now is a good time to go back and try to understand what happened. I'm meeting up with the supervisor of midwives on Friday and she has said we can go through my notes together. I don't mind the idea of counselling if she suggests that. Have you found it helpful? I hope it has made you feel better hun. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Thank you again for sharing your experience xx

 

[Phoebes_mum]

Thank you hun. I didn't say it because I didn't want to put the thought in your head but the thing I said to the counsellor today was that I don't remember feeling the 'rush of love' that you are meant to feel. Don't get me wrong, I love my daughter with all my heart and would throw myself in front of anything to save her but I just don't remember or think I had that rush.

I was lucky and did breast feed but every midwife showed me a different way to do it. I was so confused. I had the section on the wed and they sent me home Fri afternoon because they needed the bed. By the Sunday I was so chapped and bleeding I couldn't bare DD waking up for feeding (a terrible feeling) so on the Monday we made the heart wrenching decision to move to formula, midwives gave me hell for it.

Then I developed a very strange rash that went all around my stomach in a ring, leaving a clear patch in the middle. My drs had never seen anything like it, I had them all in the room at once having a look. They said it looked just like Chicken pox but it wasn't. They put me on such high antibiotics they said I wouldn't be able to feed her myself anyway.

So all of this really took over my first couple of weeks with not a lot of support from local midwives. I just want to make this one a completely different experience.

I think the counselling is helping, only the second visit but we started talking about how to get over it today and seeing things through my daughters eyes which really helped. Keep in touch xx

 

[MayBMore]

Bless you x it' s so confusing isn't it when you have all these thoughts niggling away, and people aren't always so open and honest about how child birth actually is in hospital if any intervention is deemed necessary. I think some of us are going to have a bad time, hopefully this isn't the case for us next time and we will both have a totally different (more beautiful) experience.

I went in with a laissez faire attitude towards labour before because I thought that was best, so it all came as a massive shock to be honest...I don't think what I went through was normal tho, and that's why I want to try and at least reduce my fears or at least be able to weigh up whether we want to risk it - if it's likely that I might lose that much blood again. I think it's a guarantee that I won't ever opt for induction again so at least I know where I stand with that.

It's a nice and warming thought actually, imagine through your daughters eyes...if I'm going to put myself back there she was so precious I wanted nothing more than for her to be comfortable soothed and happy so I listened to her needs acutely, my needs were secondary straight away ...so I would like to think she was calmed and loved, warm and fuzzy. She was certainly a happy baby and still is little beautiful x let me know how you get on too x

 

[MayBMore]

Hi Ladies I've not long got in from meeting with big boss midwife and although she was really lovely and helpful and talked through my notes with me ...I just don't know what to think now. GORY BITS ALERT:

She has said she is going to book me an appointment with the consultant who dealt with me because there are some things she just can't answer and will need explaining further. She was however able to tell me that I lost 1500 mls due to an extended tear to my uterus and an atonic uterus...meaning that it wasn't able to contract down after delivery. She said this may have been because my baby's position was sunny side up (which I didn't know), or possibly due to already present bleeding from tear, or the prolonged labour. But feels it would be best explained by the consultant. She also mentioned that an extra bit of muscle in uterus was noted (what the hell does this mean???) and thinks it would be best to discuss with the consultant how best to be cared for if I was to become pregnant again.

So I have a few questions answered more new ones to stress about ..and I know being referred to the consultant is a good thing but I can't help feel a bit panicy about it now

 

[Phoebes_mum]

Hi Ladies I've not long got in from meeting with big boss midwife and although she was really lovely and helpful and talked through my notes with me ...I just don't know what to think now. GORY BITS ALERT:

She has said she is going to book me an appointment with the consultant who dealt with me because there are some things she just can't answer and will need explaining further. She was however able to tell me that I lost 1500 mls due to an extended tear to my uterus and an atonic uterus...meaning that it wasn't able to contract down after delivery. She said this may have been because my baby's position was sunny side up (which I didn't know), or possibly due to already present bleeding from tear, or the prolonged labour. But feels it would be best explained by the consultant. She also mentioned that an extra bit of muscle in uterus was noted (what the hell does this mean???) and thinks it would be best to discuss with the consultant how best to be cared for if I was to become pregnant again.

So I have a few questions answered more new ones to stress about ..and I know being referred to the consultant is a good thing but I can't help feel a bit panicy about it now

Sorry it wasn't exactly the answers you were looking for but at least you got a few! To me if I were in your situation I think I'd just go for a C-section.

Catching up with a friend of mine today and she said, "Bloody hell (pardon my language) if you've got the choice just book the section. You will know when you're going in, roughly how many nights you're going to be there, you can get child care sorted for Phoebe and prepare her. Let's face it we don't get pregnant for the labour but for the end result, so what's the point of going through it if you don't have to?"

I know she's right, I think I've pretty much made my mind up. I know it's tough for you but they haven't said you can't have more children (my best friend had her second just over a year ago, whole thing was fine but they couldn't get the placenta out after he was born, it tore and she lost a lot of blood, they ushered her fiancé out the room, they nearly lost her and after told her not to have any more children she reckons if she'd had a section none of that would have happened).

Let me know what happens with the consultant xx

 

[BunnyN]

Hi Ladies I've not long got in from meeting with big boss midwife and although she was really lovely and helpful and talked through my notes with me ...I just don't know what to think now. GORY BITS ALERT:

She has said she is going to book me an appointment with the consultant who dealt with me because there are some things she just can't answer and will need explaining further. She was however able to tell me that I lost 1500 mls due to an extended tear to my uterus and an atonic uterus...meaning that it wasn't able to contract down after delivery. She said this may have been because my baby's position was sunny side up (which I didn't know), or possibly due to already present bleeding from tear, or the prolonged labour. But feels it would be best explained by the consultant. She also mentioned that an extra bit of muscle in uterus was noted (what the hell does this mean???) and thinks it would be best to discuss with the consultant how best to be cared for if I was to become pregnant again.

So I have a few questions answered more new ones to stress about ..and I know being referred to the consultant is a good thing but I can't help feel a bit panicy about it now

I'm no expert but those sound like classic side effects of induction. Either your body was over sensitive, or they miss-managed the induction, or both. During a normal birth your body can regulate the speed and strength of contractions. During an induction your body no longer has that control and it can cause too much strain on the muscles leading to tearing and failure of uterus to contract. Being induced when baby is not yet in the right position for birth and not allowing time for the baby to turn during labour can cause further strain and failure to progress.

Of course doctors are not perfect and they can only do what they feel is right at the time but it kind of seems to me like they may not like to admit they caused the whole thing and that could be why the MW didn't want to spell it out?