Using embryos if parents seperate?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Urchin, Mar 8, 2006.

?

should she be allowed to use the embryos?

  1. Yes

  2. No

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  1. Urchin

    Urchin Well-Known Member

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    Anyone been following this in the news?

    A woman who lost a landmark legal battle to be allowed to use her frozen IVF embryos yesterday pleaded with her former fiancé to give her the chance of motherhood. She says "He chose to become a father the day we created the embryos. That was his choice to be a father."

    Natallie Evans, 34, who split up with Howard Johnston in 2002 and is infertile after cancer treatment, said the six embryos represented her last hope of having children that are genetically hers.

    Mr Johnston, speaking near his home in Cheltenham, said he was relieved by the European Court judgment and felt that common sense had prevailed. He wanted to decide when to start a family. He also wanted to be involved in the upbringing of any children he may have.

    "I felt very strongly that I should be able to make that decision myself. When two people embark on something, it should be completed with the two people still involved."

    here's a link clicky

    So... should she just adopt? Or does she have the right to become pregnant with her own children, even if the father doesn't want the child?
     
  2. beanie

    beanie Well-Known Member

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    Hmm I seem to be the only person to have said no. It is a very tricky situation, I can see where both people are coming from. On one hand she has been through so much, and I can really understand the want to have your own biological child. However I can understand where the father is coming from. Me and my ex discussed having chidren when we were in love but looking back I am so relieved that we didn't as the relationship between us is horrible and I would not want a child to be involved in that. They haven't spoken in 2 1/2 years (for whatever reasons) and is that the best for a child. I'm not too sure why she didn't just freeze her eggs, she was on Richard andJudy saying that she was not aware at the time of signing the forms that there would need to be consent from both parties. I feel that there is right on both sides but agree with the Court ruling that if there is not consent from both parents then the embryos should not be used.
     
  3. emilia

    emilia Well-Known Member

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    I think this is just such a sad situation. I understand both points, but I get the impression the guy's being a bit heartless. He's also got a bit of an arrogant tone. I obviously don't know the relationship politics, but I feel heartbroken for the womans sake. We've all experienced the planning and births of our own children and we all understand the desires involved. I'm just sad that she has been denied the opportunity and experience.
    Actually, I'm just very upset with "cancer" in general!!! I can't understand this "mysterious" desease. :( :evil: :cry: We can't do or eat anything anymore without a risk of cancer attached!!
    Emilia xx
     
  4. BubbleOne

    BubbleOne Well-Known Member

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    I voted NO too Beanie.
    I think it is a sad situation but having a child has to be a joint decision and I am a strong beliver that all children should be born out of love, planned or not.
    I would like 3 children but at the moment OH says he would only want 2. As much as I want 3 I would never 'get pregnant' just so that I can have what I want. That's not fair on the child for starters and also I would never want to trap him into any situation. I am grateful I have 1 beautiful child.
    I do feel sorry for her but agree with the court decision.
     
  5. Tiny Sue

    Tiny Sue Well-Known Member

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    I voted yes...

    Though I agree that having children is a joint decision, those 6 embryos are part hers too, if possession and ownership come into something as basic as a child's life. What will happen to them if she doesn't use them? And "use" is not the best word here I think.

    I'm not going to turn this into a speech and hurt peoples' feelings. Nobody knows what is going through a person's heart and mind until you walk a mile in their shoes. But I would hate to think that those six little lives will end because of a European court ruling.

    Just my two cents...surely an accommodation could have been reached whereby the woman bore the children and didn't come so much as a bargepole's length close to their natural father.

    Sue
     
  6. rach

    rach Well-Known Member

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    i voted yes
    my point of view is once those eggs were fertilised he had already given consent if they had already been in the womans body eg naturaly conceived he would not be able to change his mind why should he now???
    its like men having the right to decide that a woman should have a termination even if she does not want one :shock: xxx
     
  7. Amanda

    Amanda Well-Known Member

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    I've voted Yes, even though I'm sure I've heard since that the court has ruled No.

    I agree with Rach in that he has already given his consent when the eggs were fertilised. Otherwise how did they get the sperm????

    And as Sue said, those 6 tiny lives will now end because of a European Court Ruling.

    Lets face it, how many men are there who already have no idea they are fathers as the mother never told them she was pregnent? I know that happened with my birth mother (I was adopted). She didn't find out she was pregnant until after they had split, and she had left the area. And she never contact him to let him know. So my biological father is walking round somewhere having no idea that I exist. He had sex with my mother, and we all know the possible outcome, so as far as I am concerned, he gave his consent for my mother to go ahead with the pregnancy. And this guy did by allowing his sperm to be used to fertilise her egss. Not quite the same, but similar.

    My heart goes out to this poor lady.
     
  8. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    I think it must be an absolutely dreadful situation to be in. You're forced into IVF because you have a life threatening illness. What relationship wouldn't be under strain in those circumstances.

    That poor, poor woman, faced with never having a child and having to go through this to try and get there. I've heard a couple of things that are relevant to this. Firstly, you can't just freeze your eggs. Apparently, it damages them in way that freezing embryos doesn't. Also, that in this situation now, the doctors encourage women to have their eggs fertilised by a sperm donor as well as their partner. That way if they split up, at least she has an alternative.

    I actually voted no, though. I think it should be a joint decision all the way through. What's truly heartbreaking is that those embryos are going to be destroyed later this year because they are 5 years old. What a waste. I wonder if her ex will ever have children with anyone else....
     
  9. lauramumof2

    lauramumof2 Well-Known Member

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    Could she not have had the eggs frozen only? I havent voted because I cant put down any one answer or reason,
     
  10. michelle82

    michelle82 Well-Known Member

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    I couldnt decide on this as I think its all a bit odd, like why not just have her eggs frozen?? And surely if she got PG using those embryos although he's made his feelings clear wouldnt he still be liable to pay her maintenance?? Isnt that why sperm donors numbers are reducing as they are questioning if they should remain anon?? I mean whilst everything is rosy for her now what if she lost her job or couldnt afford what she needed for the baby then surely she would have a right to get money off him and that wouldnt be fair? I think its harsh the embryos are to be destroyed what if they made their peace in a couple of years? then its too late to do anything. Anyway as you can see I cant make up my mind either way I guess I can see both sides
     
  11. Urchin

    Urchin Well-Known Member

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    Apparently eggs are a lot more difficut to freeze because of the cell structure, so they don't offer it. Some places have started offering to make embryos with the partners sperm PLUS some with donor sperm aswell just in case they split up.
     
  12. minikins

    minikins Well-Known Member

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    I would say no in this case as the contract they both signed said if they pull out then the embros are terminated so they both knew that.

    It's a really sad story though and I can't begin to imagine what she is going through, but sometimes in life you just have to accept things and move on and deal with things.

    I will probably get slapped now for saying that ;)
     
  13. rach

    rach Well-Known Member

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    thats an interesting point youve made there minikins hun i wasnt aware that they had a contract that enabled him to pull out and the embryos be destroyed hmmmmm i still dont think its right but can see it a bit more from his point of view now xxx
     
  14. minikins

    minikins Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it kinda makes sense so parties are in or out as it were. Got this off the beeb webbie;

    "English law provides very clearly the democratic principle and the principle of autonomy.

    "At every stage throughout IVF, the consent of both the man and the woman must be preset and must not be withdrawn.

    "It embodies equality between the sexes and consent which is deeply embedded in medical law, especially procreative law."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4781536.stm

    The whole thing is so sad though. And I feel sorry for all of them. We were going to start IVF last year but luckily Dominic came after 4 years.
     
  15. weestar21

    weestar21 Well-Known Member

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    sorry i couldnt vote i just cant decide what is right and wrong in this situation at the end of the day if she was allowed and the father still didnt want them to be used he could in a few years turn round and fight for custody of that child so personaly i think it would just be the start of a horrible roller coaster for the child if there was ever one to be made from this situation
     
  16. Tara & Liam

    Tara & Liam Well-Known Member

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    I didnt know about the consent agreement either minikins. but i do think that once the eggs are fertilised then as far as i am concerned it has already started to form into a baby. so really he is forcing her to have an abortion. the only difference is, is that is outside her body. does that make sense.
     
  17. Tara & Liam

    Tara & Liam Well-Known Member

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    Sorry continuing

    What would have happened if she had those eggs implanted with his permission and then he withdrew his permission, would she have still had to have them terminated. i cant see the any difference with the termination except for the location of the fertilised eggs.
     
  18. lauramumof2

    lauramumof2 Well-Known Member

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    its a minefield, you could say that this gives men the right to say a woman should have an abortion whereas a woman could have one without asking the man.
    Its a total can of worms.
    Any guys with any opnions??
     
  19. Kim

    Kim Well-Known Member

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    I think it's worse for her not to have the child she wants than for him to have a child he doesnt want but would come to accept and love
     
  20. Tara & Liam

    Tara & Liam Well-Known Member

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    yep definately right Kim.
     

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