Mum's with unvaccinated children

Discussion in 'Alternative Parenting' started by MissKW, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. MissKW

    MissKW Well-Known Member

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    *I know this is very controversial and do not wish to start a debate! I am only interested in answers from those with experience living with unvaccinated children*
    I have some questions for those of you who have unvaccinated children.
    DS is not yet vaccinated for a veriety of reasons (mostly that we have a family history of severe, life long reactions to them so they have not been worth it in the slightest) and I have some concerns that I hope you may be able to shed some light on.
    Firstly, as most other children are vaccinated and some vaccines shed, I have been trying to keep him away from other children around vaccine ages as I fear him catching something from the shedding whilst he is so young. Is this reasonable or should I not be so worried? He is exclusively breastfed and I plan on carrying on until he's at least 1, I also try to feed him organic fruits and veggies daily with small amounts of good quality meat. I am hoping this will help his immune system stay as healthy as it can be (myself and hubby did have a nasty cold recently and and DS managed to avoid it completely so surely that's a good sign).

    Something else I'm not sure about is when DS is older, if he catches such as measels (I'm certain he will cope fine, have been educated in how to help symptoms with a more natural approach without having to leave the house and know its still common to get it when vaccinated anyway, my sister and many others I know are fully vaxed and still got it as kids so I wouldn't rely on a vaccine even if he ever was vaccinated), if say me or hubby catch this from him, will it effect us as adults worse than if we were younger? Myself and hubby were vaccinated but obviously immunity from vaccines isn't the same as natural immunity and doesn't last very long (not that I trust them to work even if immunity was supposed to last). DH can't risk catching anything as he needs to work so I would keep him away anyway just in case.

    Is there anything you yourself are concerned about?
    Have your kids had these common childhood diseases already and everybody else was fine, or did you catch things from your kids?
    Do you have any general advice etc for us?
    I just want to be as prepared as possible before any situation does crop up
     
    #1 MissKW, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  2. Kitana

    Kitana Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I really don't understand why you don't want to vaccinate your child. Imagine he gets the ROTAvirus, which could have been prevented if vaccinated, that virus causes about 40% of infant and child deaths due to heavy diarrhea in unvaccinated children. It's a common virus and easy to catch. Due to loads of new people migrating to our countries, with children who might carry diseases which are almost non existent in First World countries (thanks to vaccination), vaccination is more important than ever!
    The danger is not only to your children himself, but to others. Imagine you get pregnant with a second child and at that moment your son has a disease which could affect your unborn child which could have been avoided. It doesn't only affect your unborn child, but all those pregnant mummies who come in contact with your child too. Don't be selfish... Just because you're vaccinated, doesn't mean your child shouldn't be.
    How cruel would that be if your child is affected by a disease for which you were immunised to... Think!!
     
  3. Abi88

    Abi88 Well-Known Member

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    I would just add that most vaccines are not live so do not shed. They make them with denatured viruses that are dead so have no risk of being passed on to others through vaccination. Some of the live vaccines such as flu have alternatives with dead virus too. You say you are concerned because some vaccines reduce in efficiency but there are boosters offered for those. For example doctors recommend getting vaccinated for diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough every 10 years but others do give immunity for life as long as the full course is given.

    Also historically most babies were breastfed and then moved on to organic fruit and veggies but we had much higher rates of illness and death in children prior to vaccination despite this diet.

    I understand your concerns with allergies, especially if these run in your family but please talk to your doctor. Not all the vaccines contain the same allergens and so the doctor could advise vaccines that do not contain the specific allergen (egg proteins are a common one for example) or do a slower protocol that allows for greater monitoring in your specific case if the specific allergen is not known.

    I appreciate you don't want to start a debate but there really isn't one between vax and non-vax. I can assure you scientists are not trying to cover up the data if they were being paid off, academics would be a lot better funded.
     
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  4. MissKW

    MissKW Well-Known Member

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    It is not allergies I am concerned about, it is autoimmune conditions, nevous system disorders and sids mostly. Myself, a few family members and friends have all had adverse reactions due to the toxins in vaccines. I have been warned that with family history especially myself (and being told I shouldn't get anymore vaccines in future for increased risk of more issues occurring), DS is very likely to suffer adverse side effects also. I really don't want to put him through that, and my doctor isn't overly bothered either way and understands the concerns.
    From what I have seen looking into the history of vaccines it seems as though diseases were outed by improved hygiene etc before the vaccines even came into place, so I am sceptical.
    I would LOVE to speak to an expert on vaccines and immunology but I don't seem to be able to find anybody who can answer questions and ease concerns over the subject which I find frustrating :/
     
  5. MissKW

    MissKW Well-Known Member

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    I understand where you are coming from and belive me I have thought about it an awful lot.
    However for us as of now the benefits just don't outweigh the risks.
    With family history of serious adverse and life altering reactions, and looking into the statistics of everything (autoimmunity, nervous system disorders, sids and cancers caused by vaccines compared with complications from a vaccine preventable disease), it seems safer to avoid them.
    I have spoken with my Dr's and nurses, none of which have been able to answer questions or ease concerns and who all understand my fears etc enough to be fine with my decision.
    I would rather DS have a healthy lifestyle and get proper natural immunity and fight off a disease easily than have him vaccinated and him end up with a serious life debilitating illness as a result or worse loose his life, when he could be much better off having never been vaccinated.
    If I don't vaccinate I can't change that, but if i. don't I can change my mind any time if somebody can convince me. And belive me I am very open minded and would love for someone to put my fears at rest, promise me he will be fine unlike other members of the family and go on as normal, but until then I will remain sceptical from experience and only want what's best for him. He's my world and I'm doing everything I can to protect him.
    I am not taking any decisions lightly
     
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  6. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Member

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    Surely if a specialist has linked your and other member of your families adverse reactions to immunisations then they should be able to answer your questions? We had genetic concerns in whether to try for a baby or not and so contacted the department who diagnosed my husband as a child, who were very knowledgeable and helpful!
     
  7. Abi88

    Abi88 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. If there is a specific risk your doctor has flagged up you need to talk with them again to find out more of the pros and cons. Good luck with your research.
     
  8. Kitana

    Kitana Well-Known Member

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    Like the others said, get informed...
    I remembered reading a story, just before Christmas, that her mother had to see her premie daughter die because an unvaccinated teen had babysat her for a few hours. She infected the baby, she died and the teen survived. How would you feel if that happened to you...
    In Australia, parents even get a daily fine if they don't vaccinate their children.
    They don't get vaccinated for minor, easily treated diseases but for major life threatening ones.
    You couldn't even let your son play outside in the dirt since the tetanus bacteria lives on the ground. You couldn't let your son be treated at the hospital since the risk of infection for any other disease so big that it might make him even more sick.
    Please inform yourself... It's not only for your son, it's for those around you too.
     
  9. Elize

    Elize Member

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    That's helpful to me too to know what your experience is, even though I'm sorry you've had to go through it. I'm trying to seriously consider which vaccines my child may get and which ones to leave out. Were there any that were particularly better or worse in your experience? I have no idea if the side effects are gradual or immediate. But I'm really on the fence about some of it.
     
  10. Elize

    Elize Member

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    Please. I never got a tetanus shot and I ran around barefoot in the rain. Also, who would have a premie be babysat by anyone (was it an emergency situation)? That sounds like a horrible decision, for reasons like regular germs and not just something that's been vaccinated against! Premies wouldn't have most of the vaccines you're arguing for, they would have only had one shot... not sure what the point is you're trying to make other than 'the world is a scary place'. OP just said that Sudden Infant Death Syndrome has been suffered by her family because of vaccines. You're literally telling her to risk or child's life, or else she's risking her child's life. Please pay attention to what you're saying.
     
  11. MissKW

    MissKW Well-Known Member

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    To be honest in general they are all a risk, and sometimes the reaction is immediate (starts with crying, often brain inflammation, seziours etc), but it can also take from weeks or months up to 8 years for problems to set in. Many people are unable to get rid of toxins and metals such as aluminium from the body (altzimers sufferers for instance), and they are there to create an immune response, often turning the body against itself. You will come accross many toxins in day to day life, but the amount injected these days is so unhealthy and has been proven time and time again to be dangerous for so many people.
    The worst vaccines are HPV (I have a close friend crippled by that one), meningitis, flu, hep B, and Tdap. But they all have risks. Even the vit k comes with a black box warning and many babies have died in trials as a result from them. They all contain different ingredients, for instance the meningitis vac I think is the only one which contains ecoli, most contain aluminium, some still have mercury, human fetal and animal DNA and a whole range of other stuff.
    Another thing that put me off him having any is a company was successfully sued last year for not having done a single vaccine safety study (which is their job) for the last 30 years in which time the schedule has sky rocketed and yet we are still all told they are 'safe and effective' for everyone when they clearly and sadly are not safe for EVERYONE, and there is more evidence against them than for them from what I have seen since becoming pregnant and looking into it properly.
    Modern disease is on the rise, kids are getting sicker, people are dying younger and vaccines have a part to play in that. Not just for us but our pets too. And the end of the day it's a medical procedure, no pill, procedure or vaccine suits everyone, I really do think things need to be altered to make them safer for a wider range of people if they are going to push them like they are doing.
    If you are unsure, just do as much research as you possibly can, but the things you need to see are the hardest to find as they put what they want you to see with easier access.
    There are some good books available now with many studies and info in to save you the time researching if that's easier for you.

    The build up of toxins was what triggered my health issues as it caused my body to attack itself and it happened within weeks of the vaccines being given. They think it was the toxins for my father too on top of allergies, he is not to have any again either but as for the others we never got any proper answers.
    For my friend who was disabled by HPV jab, along with many others (there's a huge uproar about that one currently, and it definitely doesn't work, my sister had the jab as a teen and just recently had LLETZ to remove pre cancerous cells from cervix), it was the adjuvants. Apparently they have used a 'stronger more effective' adjuvant that isn't in any other vaccine, and it's caused a bad reaction in probably half of the people who had it, POTS being one of the most common and related issues surrounding it. Yet they are still pushing it on kids
    You can access package inserts online so always look at those first before you agree to any, or ask your Dr for the actual package insert rather than leaflet to check ingredients and particular side effects.

    There is an awful lot of fear mongering that goes on to try persuading people to vax, for instance in the US people are terrified of chicken pox, they make it out to be a death sentence. Here in the UK its normal, mild and we all have it without a care or worry. Measels was once the same. My parents and grand parents and sister etc all had it. It's the same with most things, when you really look into it, complications are rare and we fight things off well as long as we are health to start with. Also with things such as measels, chicken pox and mumps etc not only do you get life long immunity if you contract it naturally but there are also life long health benefits (reduced risk of heart disease, stroke, certain cancers for example). But they don't tell you all the pros and cons at the immunization appointments beforehand.
    If you look into medical history it seems vaccines never actually eradicated anything, there's a big conspiracy regarding the cause of polio and most cases of polio today are actually vaccine induced, going on the data and statistics available.
    Another thing I found looking into everything separately was that negative side effects from vaccines are far more common than they are from the diseases, and more people are dying as a result than they would otherwise. Many people are vaccine injured and don't realise, only an estimation of 10% is ever actually reported.
    There is a lot to look into but it's all very interesting (and scary il have to admit).

    Some people are fine with vaccines, other people's bodies don't cope with them very well, there is no one size fits all. Just do what you can and what you think is best. You can get them vaccinated any time but you can't take it back so don't feel pressured and rush into any decisions (my mum regrets vaccinating us as we would have been better off without, but she didn't have the knowledge before).
    You know what's best for you and your kids so try not to let others influence your decision. We are all doing our best. There are a lot more people than we realise opting out now because we are able to educate ourselves :)
    If they made them safer I would consider it, but until then, for our family it's not worth the risk.
     
    #11 MissKW, Jan 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  12. Kitana

    Kitana Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to take my word for it, just google, unvaccinated and any other keyword like child, baby, click on news and you will find loads of articles on the matter. The story I had read was about a premie who hadn't received all vaccinations yet since well, she was a premie. Just look it up, I'm not making this up.

    I told OP what the others said, to get her history checked out so she can get a look at what causes a reaction so the doctors can act accordingly.

    Like Abi88 said, I don't think there is an issue between vaccination and unvaccinated. I just don't understand that you wouldn't want to protect your child and people around you.

    There is a reason there is no more polio in Europe and it's not because there was a mass conspiracy going on, I don't know where you get your information from but maybe you should get better informed. Ignorance is dangerous.
     
  13. Elize

    Elize Member

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    Thanks for the personal experiences, I know it may not be so easy to talk about. The metals are definitely a concern I have as I know the metals (aluminum especially) in most deodorants help to cause or exacerbate breast cancer. A lot of people don't realize that the fatty tissue around the armpit is breast tissue. When they shave and rub aluminum on themselves for decades no toxins can get out through the sweat glands there and they close up, and cancer can result.
    As for the US, I'm in the Northeast and I can tell you that I've never in my life heard somebody fear-mongering about chickenpox specifically. Nobody thinks it's a death sentence (unless it's a bunch of dumb liberally-educated millennials) and everybody in my generation had it during childhood. It can come back as shingles when you're elderly, but that is not a leading cause of death. I don't know if it's coming out of California (the state which speaks for none of us and I'd very much like our President to build his wall around it too) but I heard that rumor here somewhere else on this site. Absolutely nobody thinks the chicken pox in the US is a death sentence. We all laugh about it, because it sucks when you're a kid, but then it never comes back. But if you ever find yourself on an 'informative' website that's based in California, just assume the opposite of everything in print there is true. And while we're at it, as much as I love that city, ignore Portland, Oregon too. Those places are eating themselves trying to become inclusive socialist paradises and nobody can form a proper augment there.
    But back to the vaccine talk (sorry I got excited there). Are there any books in general that helped you? I love reading research studies specifically.
    Also if you're curious, vaccines in the US are not allowed to be subject to class-action lawsuits, which is one of the biggest red flags for me. A class-action is a lawsuit wherein a large group of people who are effected by a product or service all receive compensation from the company that wronged them. So now if you're asking for more than $1,000 in compensatory damages, or damages for more than a person or two from a vaccine manufacture or distribution center you won't get it by default, and there will be no news about it. Your complaint instead is added to the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Effect) reporting system and filed. That's it. Without knowing too many details on individual vaccines, it's a pretty good reason to realize that many people have no interest in protecting the consumer.
    But I would love to know what is being taught in schools about it specifically, because my eldest niece thinks that you need them to live or something when her very own sister can't have a piece of a cashew without her face swelling up. She ignores the evidence that's in front of her own eyes. People are damaging their children with these. There are also reports of people doing 'charity work' in parts of southern Africa (Bill & Melinda gates foundation seems especially in the middle of this), where vaccines are delivered and people have massive seizures or become sterile afterwards (I've seen actual footage of that, it was a crazy high number too like 9 out of 10 girls in a high school, dozens of them just seizing on the floor). There are some villages who literally have shot the person coming to deliver the vaccines because of it.
    So basically, it's looking a LOT like a eugenics program and NOT A LOT like it has anything to do with health and long life.
     
  14. Elize

    Elize Member

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    I agree with you. Ignorance is dangerous, please think about the welfare of your children.
    ((If that premie got her vaccines and they were useless you're just making OP's point, I hope you can realize that. It goes against your own argument and proves that they did nothing in this case)).
    I would much rather hear from you, an actual person on your personal experiences regarding vaccines. Still if you see google as a source of anything than there's not much we can discuss. Google has been caught numerous times changing search results in favor of one political party or religious group over another. You see what silicon valley wants you to see there. And no, I'm not going to look up articles that you claim exist. Feel free to find your own arguments and post them here to back up your beliefs.
     
  15. Abi88

    Abi88 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that Google results can be dodgy. The stuff I found when I was trying to find out the implications of being o negative were hilarious. Particular highlights being the theory that I'm secretly a lizard person illuminati Atlantean!

    But if you dismiss the scientific articles that we only 'claim exist' then I'm not sure what you can base your argument on. (As someone who got an MSc in climate science before becoming a pre-school teacher I constantly bang my head against the wall trying to explain scientific concensus but that's another story). So much evidence is needed for these studies and these articles are peer-reviewed. So far the one that has been discredited is the anti-vax MMR autism link from years ago.

    You say you would rather talk about personal experiences with vaccines. I got all the normal vaccines including HPV and a whole bunch of travel vaccinations including Hep A and B, I had no issues except occasionally a sore arm after. DH has had even more than me since he travels to really random places with work, also doing fine. We were incredibly lucky to get pregnant first month trying too so in our case it clearly didn't damage our fertility either.
     
    #15 Abi88, Jan 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
    Donna88 likes this.
  16. MissKW

    MissKW Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou for that! All good Info for me also. I have heard about the alum in deodorant contributing to cancer but never look into it as I tend to opt for more natural products anyway whenever I can, so that was interesting!
    Haha, I'm not sure what area it was but I had come accross a clip of a news channel wherever it was and they were urging everybody to stick with the chicken pox vaccine schedule because of 'dangerous outbreaks' and talking about how 'deadly' it could be lol. There were many comments surrounding the subject also with numerous people fearing their children ending up with it. I didn't realise it was certain areas so I will definitely look out for that in future too XD
    I can't remember exactly what the books are called so I will have a look in a moment and send them for you. It's all interesting stuff :)

    Oh gosh I know, I would like to know the same thing, so many people think they NEED to have them. I have met adults who think if I don't vax DS he WILL die of a vaccine preventable disease.. Even though all the generations before them (including the themselves not having all the vacs their kids are now expected to have) have survived perfectly fine without them.
    The approach towards them definitely needs to change. For all those people who it's worked for with no ill effect, fantastic, but they don't seem to understand its not like that for everyone.

    Oh I have come accross the bill Gates foundation etc briefly, and although I haven't seen footage or anything have read about the testing and injuries going on. It's absolutely disgusting :(


    I wonder if I will be classed as unvaccinated now also, not having any since a teen. I hope I don't get blamed for spreading diseases I don't have in future because of it. I hope a lot of these articles people see about the unvaxed killing people have investigated everybody involved and have all the facts before publishing and accusing people. 90% of adults I know are no longer considered fully vaxed, we're never vaccinated for some of the things now on the schedule and don't have immunity to most things anymore but they still walk around in public, work with kids, babies and elderly etc and nobody bat's an eyelid. I bet the mother herself wasn't fully vaxed either according to the current schedule, but that probably didn't cross the minds of anybody involved. As sad as it is I think people are far too quick to point fingers.
    It's a strange, messed up world we live in
     
    #16 MissKW, Jan 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  17. MissKW

    MissKW Well-Known Member

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    The ones I like are:
    Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies: 400 Important Scientific Papers Summarized for Parents & Researchers

    Make an Informed Vaccine Decision for the Health of Your Child: A Parent's Guide to Childhood Shots

    Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History

    And there's also all of these and many others available, so just find the ones which appeal to you the most :) :
    The vaccination dilemma
    Vaccine Whistleblower: Exposing Autism Research Fraud at the CDC
    Vaccines Are They Really Safe & Effective
    Vaccine Free : 111 Stories of Unvaccinated Children
    Horrors of Vaccination Exposed and Illustrated
     
  18. Kholl

    Kholl Well-Known Member

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    Hey MissKW!

    My daughters are fully vaccinated but my son has severe reactions and so we had to stop giving him any shots at 18 months. I really do get both sides to this one, and if I had a family history of autoimmune issues I would be very wary as well. To me, this is not an easy decision (though for many people it is, of course!).

    One of my closest friends has a fully unvaccinated child due to a family history of severe autoimmune diseases, severe autism, and various vaccine reactions, so I do have the opportunity to speak with her often. She is not concerned about vaccine shedding, if that helps ease your mind at all. I think it would be too stressful to attempt to avoid kids who are at the ages where they typically receive vaccines, especially because you never know who's just had a flu shot, or who's had to run to the doc to get a few shots to "catch up" to the recommended schedule, etc. You'll just end up avoiding all kids, which you really don't need to do!

    People really do have such a wide range of responses and reactions to vaccines, and there is so much we still just don't know. I am fortunate that neither my husband nor I suffer any kind of real health challenges whatsoever, and my daughters have had exactly zero reactions to vaccines at all (no fussiness or fevers, even). My son, on the other hand, had a terrifying reaction to just ONE dTap that has left me terrified to ever attempt that again! People really all do have SUCH a range of responses to these things - I mean, a peanut butter sandwich is a daily lunch for some kids while a single peanut can kill others! I think it is wise to take your own and your family's history into account here and err on the side of avoiding them. Beyond that, I wouldn't worry. I really wouldn't. Vaccine shedding won't affect him, he will be fine :)

    As far as you or your husband catching something, I think one of the greatest concerns is Varicella (chicken pox). I had chicken pox as a kid and it was no big deal, but my dad caught it from me and it was terrifying! I'm not sure how that works with the other diseases, though... and if you've ever had chicken pox, you are immune to that for life, at least!

    Do you have a naturopath you can talk to about this, who might be able to help you work through your various concerns?

    Good luck with everything!
     
    MissKW likes this.
  19. MissKW

    MissKW Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou so much for that! It's great to hear from somebody who actually understands, and has experience of unvaxed families etc :)
    That has been extremely helpful and put me at ease a little.
    I do wish other people could understand rather than judging and jumping to conclusions but I suppose they can't understand things they have no experience of.
    Thankfully both me and hubby did have chickenpox naturally as children. I think there is a naturopath fairly local to us and had planned on making a visit anyway (gp seems to be more concerned about covering up symptoms and causing more problems than getting to the route cause lol), so I will definitely talk with them about it if they are still there! :)
     

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